Yep that's pretty much the plan. Just wanted to know if there was any clear answer.
72 Dart, pretty stock body/chassis for the time being.
340 based 416 stroker, forged internal balanced Scat reciprocating assy. Dished forged pistons. About 10.5:1 with the zero deck and MLS gaskets.
Basically out of the box eddy heads.
Cam is a lunati voodoo hyd flat tappet: Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 242/252; Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .533/.552; LSA/ICL: 110/106; Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd; RPM Range: 2500-6600;
I have 1.6 ratio Hughes rocker arms. So real lift is 568/588.
4.11 gears
PTC 4200 converter
1-7/8 to 3.5 hedman huslers
750cfm race demon
This is primarily a street toy, go to the coffee shop, Friday drive to work kind of car. Will see very occasional strip duty but not that often.
?
Sounds like we have the same goal, I just will have less opportunities to go to the strip!...I have a Duster roller that I want to turn into a street legal drag car in a few years. Not much street usage but capable of going to the burger joint...
go-fish said: ↑
...I have a Duster roller that I want to turn into a street legal drag car in a few years. Not much street usage but capable of going to the burger joint...
X’3. Pic’s below, 2 weeks old. Starting off with a dual plane 340 @ 10.5-1. Proceeding with the lightening program first and hard. When it grows up, it’ll loose the metal up front, windshield wipers, headlights and horn, etc… for now they stay. Or until the goal is met.Sounds like we have the same goal, I just will have less opportunities to go to the strip!
I am probably the least experienced guy to chime in here but it seems obvious to me.
M1 = 3000-8000 RPM range
Air Gap = idle to 6000 RPM
The M1 only has the advantage at 6000+. If this were a mostly strip and not so much a street car then I would say go for the single plane but just how damn fast are you wanting to get to the donut shop? Is it at the big end of 1/4 mile? That's where the M1 would shine but the AG starts working from takeoff. How much are you going to be in the 6000-8000 RPM range on your drive to work to take advantage of all that power the M1 gives you.
4200 stall convertor for the street? I'm still learning about convertors so I would be interested to hear about how it drives.
I have a Duster roller that I want to turn into a street legal drag car in a few years. Not much street usage but capable of going to the burger joint. It would kind of be the opposite of your usage but pretty much same set up that you have. 4.10 S60, 408", Auto/ high stall, Cal Tracs .... For that application I would do the M1.
Come on down to Lakeside and I’ll give you a ride in the Dart. It has a 410 with an Airgap, 4100 stall and 4:10 gears.I am probably the least experienced guy to chime in here but it seems obvious to me.
M1 = 3000-8000 RPM range
Air Gap = idle to 6000 RPM
The M1 only has the advantage at 6000+. If this were a mostly strip and not so much a street car then I would say go for the single plane but just how damn fast are you wanting to get to the donut shop? Is it at the big end of 1/4 mile? That's where the M1 would shine but the AG starts working from takeoff. How much are you going to be in the 6000-8000 RPM range on your drive to work to take advantage of all that power the M1 gives you.
4200 stall convertor for the street? I'm still learning about convertors so I would be interested to hear about how it drives.
I have a Duster roller that I want to turn into a street legal drag car in a few years. Not much street usage but capable of going to the burger joint. It would kind of be the opposite of your usage but pretty much same set up that you have. 4.10 S60, 408", Auto/ high stall, Cal Tracs .... For that application I would do the M1.
Was that a solid recommendation for n air gap then?Come on down to Lakeside and I’ll give you a ride in the Dart. It has a 410 with an Airgap, 4100 stall and 4:10 gears.
I like it, however haven’t ran anything different on the motor.Was that a solid recommendation for n air gap then?
Not to argue the point but if I recall and I no longer have my MP Bible s***! Those recommendations were for 340 360 cubic inch motor I feel when you throw a 4 inch arm in the mix unless you're dealing with a heavy pig of a car there's no real advantage/ need for a dual plane manifold ? imo.The head issue as described above is very true.
This is also how I feel about the intake difference.
And not to beat a horse, I feel the cam leans towards the AG.
In the MP top section, they recommend a 6 pack in the 11 second bracket tip section. AKA, a dual plane. The cam is the Purple 296. 252* (or more) degrees @.050. This is where other members have found there switch from the AG to the single plane almost right, not quite.
The car has to be seriously light to take advantage of the single plane.
Not to argue the point but if I recall and I no longer have my MP Bible s***! Those recommendations were for 340 360 cubic inch motor I feel when you throw a 4 inch arm in the mix unless you're dealing with a heavy pig of a car there's no real advantage/ need for a dual plane manifold ? imo.
Yes basically that is my feeling. When you add a 4-inch stroke to a motor you instantly add over a hundred foot pounds of torque all of a sudden six or seven pounds of torque that is gained by a dual plane seems not that important. But there's no arguing that a RPM air gap is a top notch manifold. I just feel with that much torque on hand that I would possibly move away from a dual plane and take advantage of the throttle response and fuel distribution of a m1 single plane.I don't think it would be worth changing from one to the other with your particular build I think both if tuned properly would be within a tenth of each other. I ran an m1 single plane for many years and it is a fine manifold! But never on a 416. But I sure wouldn't hesitate.Ate you saying the torque down low in the curve pulls the car through the low rpm range and when it gets on step it takes advantage of that single plane? I can see that.
If the car was low on power (smaller cam, shorter stock stroke) it would need the dual plane?
Just trying to learn.
Come on down to Lakeside and I’ll give you a ride in the Dart. It has a 410 with an Airgap, 4100 stall and 4:10 gears.
I agree to a point. Where the point is, I’m not sure.Not to argue the point but if I recall and I no longer have my MP Bible s***! Those recommendations were for 340 360 cubic inch motor I feel when you throw a 4 inch arm in the mix unless you're dealing with a heavy pig of a car there's no real advantage/ need for a dual plane manifold ? imo.
In your inbox!Send me a PM. I am going to have to take off to Mammoth Lakes for a couple of months to be a driver for a fire engine up there that lost it's driver. Going to be leaving in a week and have leave scheduled till then.
Would love to go for a rip.
I have been watching a lot of Dyno testing of different combinations lately and there's a guy, his name is Richard Holdener. Check him out on YouTube. Very sharp guy and makes some very interesting observations and explanations of things. He has done a ton of tests comparing single to dual plane, shirt runner and long runner intakes and it almost always leans toward the long runner or dual planes, anywhere under 6k. Not just small displacement street motors eithi. His point on this is regardless of displacement, boost or no boost, the intakes generally are more rpm dependant than anything else. And he backs this up with Dyno pulls. And we're not talking 5 ft lbs torque. It's often like 30-50 ft lbs for large stretches of the power curve. That's a big reason why I've been seriously pondering this in the first place.
I have been watching a lot of Dyno testing of different combinations lately and there's a guy, his name is Richard Holdener. Check him out on YouTube. Very sharp guy and makes some very interesting observations and explanations of things. He has done a ton of tests comparing single to dual plane, shirt runner and long runner intakes and it almost always leans toward the long runner or dual planes, anywhere under 6k. Not just small displacement street motors eithi. His point on this is regardless of displacement, boost or no boost, the intakes generally are more rpm dependant than anything else. And he backs this up with Dyno pulls. And we're not talking 5 ft lbs torque. It's often like 30-50 ft lbs for large stretches of the power curve. That's a big reason why I've been seriously pondering this in the first place.
As someone who has operated a dyno I totally get it.
I'm pretty sure this guy is a Dyno operator for westech, he's a legit dude and I recommend checking him out.
Yeah there's a bunch of BS on YouTube but there's a bunch of random nonsense in forums, this being no exception. You gotta take the info available and filter out the BS as best as you can and go from there.
Echoing some of the above, what shows on a dyno doesn’t always translate at the real world track.I have been watching a lot of Dyno testing of different combinations lately and there's a guy, his name is Richard Holdener. Check him out on YouTube. Very sharp guy and makes some very interesting observations and explanations of things. He has done a ton of tests comparing single to dual plane, shirt runner and long runner intakes and it almost always leans toward the long runner or dual planes, anywhere under 6k. Not just small displacement street motors eithi. His point on this is regardless of displacement, boost or no boost, the intakes generally are more rpm dependant than anything else. And he backs this up with Dyno pulls. And we're not talking 5 ft lbs torque. It's often like 30-50 ft lbs for large stretches of the power curve. That's a big reason why I've been seriously pondering this in the first place.
As someone who has operated a dyno I totally get it.
I'm pretty sure this guy is a Dyno operator for westech, he's a legit dude and I recommend checking him out.
Yeah there's a bunch of BS on YouTube but there's a bunch of random nonsense in forums, this being no exception. You gotta take the info available and filter out the BS as best as you can and go from there.