Commando heads. Anyone used them?

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
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I'm putting together another 408 this winter and have been looking at flow numbers and head options. Looks like the sad truth is that no production mopar head flows phenomenal numbers without extensive porting, polishing, and valve jobs. I originally figured i'd buy an assembled set of edelbrocks, and then have to spend 1k at a machine shop, and still need new springs. all this money and work to barely flirt with 300 cfm at .500 .600 or so lift.
BUT i call and talk to mopar, and the guy gives me a part number for a supposed, nearly drop on and go head. The commando head retains LA headers and intake, but internally is a completely different design with offset, huge valves, using a W2 style rocker.

the only problem is a complete lack of info on them. They are cast by edelbrock, designed by some ex chrysler race engineer who is no longer with the company.

i did find finally find the part number in a mopar cat, using a 2.055 valve (where as i see other large port commando head sources calling it a 2.1, 2.088, and others. however the flow numbers are all over the place, some as high as 310, some as low as 240. with only minor porting noted.
they DO use them with ZERO porting on the 440 commando smallblock and make 540-550 horse...seems to me that 240 cfm wouldn't get you there...

i guess my long post comes down to if anyone has used them? impressed with them? think some garage gasket matching could get those flow numbers to 300ish? mopar tells me even a edelbrock preformer can't touch the flow of the commando due to its valve redesign and internal structure. what do you guys think?
 
there are two different commando heads...standard port and large port..

large port use the w2 rockers...and after ported flow alot...

standard port....well...buy a set of eddies before you spend money on them..
 
i'm going with the large port...but the extra money i hope is worth the cash vs a set of eddies worked over for the same amount.
 
there was a magazine article a few years back where they ported the LP heads....basically out the box..they sucked...by got over 300 cfm once they were fully ported....was in mopar muscle magazine..

till got that copy....lol
 
it's amazing how nothing is worth a damn out of the box...one thing to consider though is the lower flow numbers are coming from a stock sized 2.02 valve. with a 2.08 or 2.10 they would obviously move more air. i'm going to dig more on monday to see what i can find
 
it was a lousy combustion chamber...if you compare them to ..say a eddy ..you can see how much the intake valve is shrouded.....


you might want to sit back and wait...edelbrock suppose to be releasing a SB Victor head....there were a couple of threads going on about them...
 
If you going to have then ported then it probably no big deal but, someone, on here was saying that the only head, from mother mopar, he would buy to build was the W2/5. somthing about the casting inconsistances from head to head.........

I looked and looked at them super comandos as well. still don't know which heads i will us......
 
every aluminum head mopar sells with MAYBE the exception of the aluminum R/T...is cast by edelbrock. so take that for what its worth.
 
Hmm i did not know that???
Not trying to start a Pissing Match, but........


So Edy cast them, who spec them, Who machined them castings?

That's were Chry is Shooting them self in the Foot! In my appinon.

:wack:
I think Chry Consept with them was right on the MONEY! But Fail to Fallow Thru......................
 
Cudafever said:
If you going to have then ported then it probably no big deal but, someone, on here was saying that the only head, from mother mopar, he would buy to build was the W2/5. somthing about the casting inconsistances from head to head.........

I looked and looked at them super comandos as well. still don't know which heads i will us......
Click to expand...

It was the valve shrouding that hurt low lift flow in a big way. IIRC, the heads were NOT fully ported and flowed 300 cfm or more.

I think* it was 340 plot (????) that said the only "IRON" head worth a damn was the W2. Not so much the aluminum units. The early problems with the aluminum W5 heads were corrected long ago, but the still didn't "Properly" get the word out on them being addressed and fixed."

The W5 is discontinued. Econo W2, discontinued. The Drag head and most worthy head for power, the W7 (IIRC) discontinued, the W8 discontinued.

johnnymac2k6 said:
every aluminum head mopar sells with MAYBE the exception of the aluminum R/T...is cast by edelbrock. so take that for what its worth.
Click to expand...

I take it as Edelbrock having the power to do the work cheaply, quickly and effectively. So, if they can make a buck by casting heads for MoPar or anybody else,more power to them. Welcome to capitalism. You'd do it, I'd do it, heck, your buddy next door would beat your door down to do it and make the money being spent to have them done. Who's kidding who? LOL!

Cudafever said:
So Edy cast them, who spec them, Who machined them castings?

That's were Chry is Shooting them self in the Foot! In my appinon.

:wack:
I think Chry Consept with them was right on the MONEY! But Fail to Fallow Thru......................
Click to expand...

IMO, Chrysler hobbles MP via high prices, receiving poor materials, bad media, bad public info regarding there stuff and the thing that blew my mind when I went for a W5 head years back, no intakes to fit it. You had to purchase there non fitting W5 intake and cut it up in order to fit it to the heads!

Now, WTF is that!!!????????

Chrysler / MP need to get out there and constantly be out there hawking, selling and informing people of there stuff. They need the ability to sell it cheaply, competitively at a low price.

Anytime I went to a dealer for a set of heads, they were looking to charge me the equal price of a set of Edelbrock heads for only one of there's bare.
(F%*K OFF!)

My next target head is a set of super commando's.
(Come on spring and tax return time!)

After that, it may be a set of Brodix B1-BA-MC's. MAD flow ability!
We'll see about the Victor heads.
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
every aluminum head mopar sells with MAYBE the exception of the aluminum R/T...is cast by edelbrock. so take that for what its worth.
Click to expand...


the older magnum aluminum castings probably not, but the newer aluminum magnum that ma mopars selling are eddy heads
 
yeah i didn't really have an opinion on edl casting them. just a pointless fact i threw out there for you guys. i'm going with the commando's i'm going to get them in hand and figure out what the hell size the valve was increased to...and also see if i can get someone else to sell me a set of rockers than the MP part. some sources say they are just a W2 rocker, others claim that the intake valve only is offset .035. looks like one offset, and one standard to me. check this out...

http://www.bjrracing.com/commando_heads.htm
 
Out of the box testing I've heard puts them much closer to 260 than 300. No offence meant, but from past experience BJR's numbers are always on the high side and I would not use his rocker geometry ideas.

Is there a reason you're stuck on the 300 cfm thing? Is this a street or bracket engine?

If it were up to me I'd be looking at the Indy 360-1s with the B1BAs as another option.
 
not really stuck on 300. but we all know the vaccum cleaner analogy. it's more the fact that i want to be able to shift at 6500 instead of 5500, and it takes flow to do that. I had a stroker that made 480 ft lbs of torque. but it had garbage magnum heads with a minor port and was done making power at 5500. My last few engines were street motors that were "race-able" this one is going to be a race motor that is streetable (for a few mile cruises anyways. i run pro class every weekend, run points, i'm used to clicking off high 11's in the dart, i'm just looking for more.
 
Well, I'm not a fan of Magnum based designs for real performance. They are IMO good street heads and can work on milder race engines. But they simply can't move enough air. The problem witht he 4" arm is the piston speed that makes a port feel small. But you know that already...lol. What camshaft were you running?
 
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 241
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 241
Duration at 050 inch Lift 241 int./241 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration 284
Advertised Duration 284 int./284 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.484 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.484 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.484 int./0.484 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 114
1.6 rocker
nothing phenomenal, but should have been able to spin to 6000 w/o falling on its face, it'd carry to, and shift at six, but it fell off big time. to the tune of 4 tenths shifting at 55 instead of 6
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
it's more the fact that i want to be able to shift at 6500 instead of 5500, and it takes flow to do that. I had a stroker that made 480 ft lbs of torque. but it had garbage magnum heads with a minor port and was done making power at 5500.
Click to expand...

I had a 410 with ported j's that cc in at 186cc and flow in the 270's/280 cfm range with a 284* 110cl [email protected] with only netting .530 at the valve...and that motor would go 6600 rpm.....since then it got a solid roller and I have yet to run it.

those factory magnums are too small in the port volume AND flow depot.imo
 
yeah that 280ish is more what i'm looking for. this next cam will be a solid roller too. i'm hoping these commandos are the real deal.
 
did you called eddy

like said earlier they are suppose to
make the victor small block heads

so...thas what I hope
 
It's the cam more than anything holding you back... Not only the heads IMO. That's no duration for a 4" arm and I'd expect it to shut off at 5500. You have to keep in mind that these have 8% more stroke than the 440. And the stroke is what gives the engine its "spirit". A 241 @ .050 cam in a 440 is a mild to medium street cam. I normally use cams in the 250 @ .050 range and those power curves peak and drop around 5800 and that's with 870cfm wet flowed carbs (they are not under-carbed). While I agree with 1Wild says with them being too small, you have left a lot on the table with that camshaft. If you want to make power at 6500, you do need more head, but you need WAY more camshaft.
 
moper said:
It's the cam more than anything holding you back... Not only the heads IMO. That's no duration for a 4" arm and I'd expect it to shut off at 5500. You have to keep in mind that these have 8% more stroke than the 440. And the stroke is what gives the engine its "spirit". A 241 @ .050 cam in a 440 is a mild to medium street cam. I normally use cams in the 250 @ .050 range and those power curves peak and drop around 5800 and that's with 870cfm wet flowed carbs (they are not under-carbed). While I agree with 1Wild says with them being too small, you have left a lot on the table with that camshaft. If you want to make power at 6500, you do need more head, but you need WAY more camshaft.
Click to expand...

oh i agree 100%, one restriction complimented the other. another reason i'm going with this full roller...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-20-740-9/

power to 6800, should be enough to let me shift 6000 at LEAST. should work well with my 4000 ATI converter.
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
the brodix flow very nice once completely worked. but i have the resources to get my hands on a new set of commandos for 950 a piece. i remember calling brodix and they offered me 1400 a head or something ridiculous in my eyes, and that was my vendor (at cost) price.
Click to expand...

$1400 each!? WOW! and YIKES! But I guess that is the, "Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay" issue cropping up.
Commando heads assembled @ that price?
 
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