e85 The Question.....

-
Woodward

Woodward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
74
Reaction score
24
Location
Michigan
Ok, I've searched the forum... pretty well. Can anyone say they've thought of, or tried using e85. I'm not off the "Pump Gas" wagon yet, maybe half a leg. I've run it in a formula car, but nothing like I'm considering doing now. Yes, I know all that needs to be done for the conversion. I'm just weighing the options of running cooler with higher octane and higher compression with out the detonation issues if I go past 10.5:1 Plus other benefits & drawbacks.

Thanks!

~Woody
 
I used to run it in my '69 valiant, but I had FAST fuel injection, and switching from pump gas to e85 was a five second job in the computer. I averaged 2 mpg less using the e85, but could notice the power difference
 
moe7404 said:
with the alcohol be it 10% or 85% you do need an upper lube for the valve stems ect. i like Marvel Mystery oil. i all so use a top cylinder lubricator, like http://www.ampcolubes.com/........check it out. its a lot like the org Marvel Mystery Oiler.
Click to expand...

No, you don't need top end lube with e85...you do with methanol, but not with e85 (thanks to the 15% gasoline).

I converted my carb to e85 in the spring and I have been VERY happy with the results. The short version is, it runs WAY cooler, picked up over 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, WAY cheaper than race gas, and it is super consistent once you get it tuned. It took me a while to get my setup tuned well, and I had to buy a wideband to assist because it is very hard to read the plugs (e85 burns very clean).

Here is the thread from the first time I went to test at the track with the new e85 setup:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=273321
 
you can run 13:1 with E85

there is a guy with a 572 hemi over on moparts that runs it at 13:1

also this thread a 13.5:1 340 (352 i think)
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...6161&Words=E85&topic=&Search=true#Post8056161

he has been silly with it too lol
8057569-scoop2.jpg
 
The program with my magnum, 0 deck w/flat top pistons i'm at 10.5. I'm being offered some real nice heads, but it would bump me up to.... I think it was 11.5? don't remember cc's. But its not just the heads. I'm really trying to keep to my program of an "Only Pump Gas" car, at least for the street. I see more benefits than not, so why not more converts? It's like driving past a restaurant with an empty parking lot, when the sign outside say's free steak!
 
flyfish said:
No, you don't need top end lube with e85...you do with methanol, but not with e85 (thanks to the 15% gasoline).

I converted my carb to e85 in the spring and I have been VERY happy with the results. The short version is, it runs WAY cooler, picked up over 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, WAY cheaper than race gas, and it is super consistent once you get it tuned. It took me a while to get my setup tuned well, and I had to buy a wideband to assist because it is very hard to read the plugs (e85 burns very clean).

Here is the thread from the first time I went to test at the track with the new e85 setup:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=273321
Click to expand...


Nice #'s by the way. Tuning for Alc. or petro. should be easier for me since i'm running Mega Squirt..... I also forgot to add that i'm pushing a 1 plate wet system.:pale:

~Woody
 
inkjunkie said:
You HAVE to run higher compression with it, from what I understand....
Click to expand...

Actually you dont...it will support higher compression ratio...but you dont have to have high compression...your Flex Fuel cars running E85 dont have high compression...

our 3 bracket cars run e85...with a range of compression from 11 to 1 to 10 to 1....all 3 cars run faster on corn syrup...and cooler..
 
inkjunkie said:
You HAVE to run higher compression with it, from what I understand....
Click to expand...

Mine is a 10.8:1 compression pump gas motor that I converted to e85. I have herd of folks running a little north of 14:1 compression, but there is no minimum compression number. Obviously, you CAN run more compression on e85 than you can in a pump gas mill; therefore, there is potential for MUCH more power to be made if you build it right.
 
I think he maybe thinking of the need to run a higher comp. ratio as a suggestion turned mandatory. While you guys are right, I think the suggestion is not only to take advantage of the ability to use a higher compression ratio but also to try and reclaim the loss against the E-85's low BTU return.

I do not remember off the top of my head the BTU numbers of the various petrol fuels vs. the E-85. But there is a power drop in a apple to Apple comparison. This is where they say intro more fuel. This helps balance it a bit more since you need a certain percent more E-85 fuel.

With that said, upping the compression ratio to take advantage of the high octane ability of the fuel can reintroduce lost power and mileage. If a 1 point ratio change upwards gives a return of 3%, then, if a 2 point ratio change upwards gives 6%, you could possibly reclaim lost mileage?

(Did I make sense? Just waking up.)

Anyways, I have also considered this move myself for my Cuda. It's basically a 11-1 aluminum headed 360. Solid cam @ 248 @ .050.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I think he maybe thinking of the need to run a higher comp. ratio as a suggestion turned mandatory. While you guys are right, I think the suggestion is not only to take advantage of the ability to use a higher compression ratio but also to try and reclaim the loss against the E-85's low BTU return.

I do not remember off the top of my head the BTU numbers of the various petrol fuels vs. the E-85. But there is a power drop in a apple to Apple comparison. This is where they say intro more fuel. This helps balance it a bit more since you need a certain percent more E-85 fuel.

With that said, upping the compression ratio to take advantage of the high octane ability of the fuel can reintroduce lost power and mileage. If a 1 point ratio change upwards gives a return of 3%, then, if a 2 point ratio change upwards gives 6%, you could possibly reclaim lost mileage?

(Did I make sense? Just waking up.)

Anyways, I have also considered this move myself for my Cuda. It's basically a 11-1 aluminum headed 360. Solid cam @ 248 @ .050.
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I am not always real clear in what I say. If you know you will be running a fuel that will allow you to run a higher compression ratio why would you not? Be like building a 8to1 motor and then running 116 in it....sort of a waste. Different story if you are converting an existing build over to corn fuel. http://fastmanefi.com/ used to have a page that talked about mileage/cost comparison of e85 vs gas. If I remember right, in his testing, it took about 20% more e85 to produce the same amount of power as gasoline....gotta go, the dogs are wanting breakfast....
 
I remember a site/page/store that offers to convert your carb over if you do not want to use/install there kits to do it. Anybody have this site/store/page?
 
I got my conversion kit from here:
http://e85carbs.com/

It took some tuning, but (from my results) picking up over 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, and 1 tenth in the 1/8 mile is HUGE for essentially a simple carb rebuild that takes about 40 minutes. Everyone I have talked to picked up at least some going to e85, some more...some less, but all picked up something. I have heard rumors that some folks gained nothing, but I have not actually met anyone yet that didn't pick up some.

Rumble, the BTU's for gasoline is about 114,000 and for e85 it is about 82,000. So yes, e85 has less BTU's, but the stoichiometry of the 2 reactions at 1 lambda leans heavily toward e85…what I mean by that is, it takes more e85 to complete the same reaction. For example: The stoichiometric coefficient for a gasoline burn reaction in an engine is about 14.7:1….so 14.7 parts air, to 1 part fuel. The stoichiometric coefficient for e85 combustion reaction in an engine is about 9.7:1….so 9.7 parts air, to 1 part fuel. So, for the same amount of air moved, there is more e85 going into the cylinder for combustion than there is for gasoline. So that, in conjunction with the cooling effect of the alcohol makes more power than running gasoline alone.

Not sure if that helps or not, but there you go.
 
Thanks, it does a bit. I can't keep this stuff in my head anymore. LOL!
 
I've run meth in a F/C race car, eth is a bit different. Sorry, didn't list what I'm running. I'm using a Mega Squirt CPU w/AEM on a B&S 360. Fuel delivery is via a multi port FI w/2 wide band o2's. I'm also considering using thermocouples to monitor combustion temps & cylinder balance, since pre-ignition & low combustion temps are issues. Oh... and I'm juicing it w/a 150 shot plate. :pale:
 
Cool, tuning is MUCH easier with a wideband. I have 1 one my car (just 1 o2 sensor) and I try to keep it around .78 lambda, but it runs close to the same from .77-.82 lambda. If I recall correctly max power rich is about .71 lambda and max power lean is about .84 lambda.
 
I'm using 2 because of running MPFI. It's an attempt to maximize Bank1 & Bank2 balance when tuning each injector.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top