expert help needed (my first post)

-
T

TheCudaKid

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2024
Messages
58
Reaction score
44
Location
north caralina
I'm going to create a collection of information that I have countless questions about. To start it off, I'm 17 years old and just started learning about American muscle cars. I have flipped a few cars in the past, but nothing to the extent of what l've been working on lately. I have a single-bay garage that my dad has let me borrow, (text me for pictures)


I have an orange 1967 Plymouth Barracuda. It's an automatic 273 2-barrel. The engine needed a complete rebuild, so I took on the task of pulling my first engine. After that, I brought the engine to a machine shop. After being quoted at 5k to rebuild the measly 273, I couldn't do it. I would like to add that the 273 is, to my knowledge, full numbers matching, but the car isn't a complete number matching. (mystery rear end)


I found a pretty good deal on a freshly rebuilt 440 with all the bells and whistles I could ask for. He has it listed for 5.2k but told me he would come down because I'm just starting off. I'm hoping he could do it for 4k. I want to know if a 440 would even fit. I understand that you could get these in 440 from the factory, but I'm still a little concerned.


If I'm going to put a 440, I would almost have to do a manual. This is where the 4-speed comes in. I haven't found a freshly rebuilt A833 trans, and I'm not even sure if that's what I should go with. I would love some recommendations, I don't know what would fit, what I would need to do to make it fit, and other ins and outs.

This leads me to a whole other list of problems.


From figuring out how to set up a clutch pedal, the shifter linkage, and finding and learning about the conversion kits, I'm completely overwhelmed with the amount of information.


This isn't my first post here. It won't be my last, but I'm here for financial and mechanical advice. I have 14,000 in the car and don't know how much they sell for. I haven't seen anything like mine for sale, especially one with a 440 manual. I haven't bought anything yet, but I wanted to contact everyone here for advice.


Thank you to anyone who responds with their opinions and recommendations.
 
Welcome!

You should include a picture of the car!

The 440 will fit but it will be both tight and more expensive to put in than say a larger small block. You’re going to need a whole bunch of big block specific parts like motor mounts, pulleys, brackets and the big one will be exhaust. If you can even find factory big block exhaust manifolds for it they will be expensive - read 1500-2000$ for the set. Equally pricey headers from tti exhaust are also an option. You will also need a transmission for the 440 and if you want a 4 speed those parts and a 4 speed conversion is also VERY expensive.

If this is your first foray into a muscle car and mopar I may suggest leaning toward a larger small block like a 360 or a stroked 360 if you want more power. It will make your life easier and be less expensive. You can re-use much of what you have now.

As for the value of your 1967 barracuda it would depend on weather or not it is a factory formula s car or just a plain Jane barracuda. Either way they aren’t overly valuable in my opinion. Don’t get caught spending too much on this car, but do improve it and make it fun for yourself
 
Last edited:
Save yourself some money and trouble and go with the original 273 with a performance cam and a 4-barrel intake and carb. Putting a big block in an A-body isn’t an easy thing to do.
 
Best advice is to set goals for the car, build a plan, and stick to it. Stem to stern. Changing your mind mid build will cost big dollars. Is this a flip car? Are you keeping it forever? Do you want to race it? Do you want to road trip it? Be honest with yourself about the goals and build to the plan.
 
4mulas said:
Not where I’m from. That sounds pretty low. The OP was already quotes 5 grand for a 273 rebuild…
Click to expand...

That’s having some basic machine work done and hanging the motor yourself.

If you know where to look there’s some really good machine shops in the PDX metro that aren’t too expensive.
 
TheCudaKid said:
I'm going to create a collection of information that I have countless questions about. To start it off, I'm 17 years old and just started learning about American muscle cars. I have flipped a few cars in the past, but nothing to the extent of what l've been working on lately. I have a single-bay garage that my dad has let me borrow, (text me for pictures)


I have an orange 1967 Plymouth Barracuda. It's an automatic 273 2-barrel. The engine needed a complete rebuild, so I took on the task of pulling my first engine. After that, I brought the engine to a machine shop. After being quoted at 5k to rebuild the measly 273, I couldn't do it. I would like to add that the 273 is, to my knowledge, full numbers matching, but the car isn't a complete number matching. (mystery rear end)


I found a pretty good deal on a freshly rebuilt 440 with all the bells and whistles I could ask for. He has it listed for 5.2k but told me he would come down because I'm just starting off. I'm hoping he could do it for 4k. I want to know if a 440 would even fit. I understand that you could get these in 440 from the factory, but I'm still a little concerned.


If I'm going to put a 440, I would almost have to do a manual. This is where the 4-speed comes in. I haven't found a freshly rebuilt A833 trans, and I'm not even sure if that's what I should go with. I would love some recommendations, I don't know what would fit, what I would need to do to make it fit, and other ins and outs.

This leads me to a whole other list of problems.


From figuring out how to set up a clutch pedal, the shifter linkage, and finding and learning about the conversion kits, I'm completely overwhelmed with the amount of information.


This isn't my first post here. It won't be my last, but I'm here for financial and mechanical advice. I have 14,000 in the car and don't know how much they sell for. I haven't seen anything like mine for sale, especially one with a 440 manual. I haven't bought anything yet, but I wanted to contact everyone here for advice.


Thank you to anyone who responds with their opinions and recommendations.
Click to expand...

IMG_0815.png


IMG_0816.png


IMG_0817.png


IMG_1591.jpeg


IMG_0200.jpeg


IMG_0139.jpeg


IMG_1592.jpeg


IMG_1620.jpeg


IMG_1627.jpeg


IMG_1900.jpeg
 
I understand the problem completely. When you get the big block itch, it is very hard not to scratch it!

If you go that direction, be prepared to spend several times what you thought you'd spend. Certainly can be done, but you'll need mucho patience, a fat wallet, and time to do it right. Don't cut corners trying to save a few buckos. Ask the guys here and they'll steer you right. I had a 70 Duster that I pulled the engine and replaced it with a 408 stroker. Excellent running car. Had a '68 Valiant that I put a 440 into and had all kinds of issues. Would not do it again, and did not. Whichever way you go, have fun!
 
I’ve owned 8 A-body cars. Half of which were original big block cars. If that car was mine I’d stick with a small block since you have all of the parts to do so. If that car was an original big block car I’d definitely put a big block in it.
 
The 273 can be quick in a 67 Notchback. Where are you in NC? There are so many good machine shops in NC. The 4 speed thing is an expensive proposition. A 440 is tight in an A Body. What do you want to do with the car? I have my brothers 67 Fastback, 273 and 904 transmission, 3.23 gears that he got when he was 16. The body has 400,000 miles on it and the 273 has 300,000 miles on it. Is it a drag racer, no but it has cruised all day @ 100 mph across the upper midwest and been up to 140 mph, while getting about 20 mpg at sane speeds. A "67" 273 was as good as it gets, forged steel crank, solid lifter cam, about 9:1 compression, good closed chamber heads. Whatever you decide, I'd recommend a warm small block (any size), keeping it automatic and add a ratchet shifter. With a small block everything is cheaper and simpler.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Best advice is to set goals for the car, build a plan, and stick to it. Stem to stern. Changing your mind mid build will cost big dollars. Is this a flip car? Are you keeping it forever? Do you want to race it? Do you want to road trip it? Be honest with yourself about the goals and build to the plan.
Click to expand...
THIS !!
 
I agree with the above. First, make a plan, and if your plan is to flip it when you’re done, stick with a small block. The big block swap will easily out price any machine work on the 273 you have. And that’s not counting all of the u seen upgrades that the big block will require, such as that mystery rear end, which I suspect is the original 7 1/4”. Around here (SE Michigan) you can have the matching done on the 273 for less than $2k, and all in, meaning having them assemble the long block for you, at under $3k. You would still have to do the final assembly, paint and reinstall, which I believe you can handle. You start getting away from the 273, and needed parts to do that quickly add up. Unforeseen things to even do a 318 would be a different trans and torque converter, which are specific to the 273. My advise is to slow your roll a bit, gather information, and proceed slowly, bring your first foray into the Mopar world.

Welcome to FABO by the way, the best place to be for a Mopar young gun.
 
What they said!

To add to that. A pretty " rebuilt motor" does not mean it is a real rebuilt motor.

If you get a rebuilt get it from a place that will guarantee it.

Stick with the small block. You will be happy in the end.

With some work you can drop in a 318 or a 340 or a 360.

The 67 should have a cast iron wayerpunp that the inlet is on the driver's side.

Later ( 70 something and up) 318 340 360 have aluminum water pumps that are shorter and the inlet is on the pass side.

All the front timing cover and accessory drive components will swap from 67 to the later years.

Some of the SBs (360?) Are externally balanced so torque converters and dampers are engine specific.

Also 67 ( maybe 68 too) crank to converter bushing is unique to that year.

Exhost manifolds are unique to sb vs bb and to A bodies.

67 is a one year only year as many parts are not the same as 68 and up.

Good thing is you can get an IBM card copy from Stallentis historical. It will have a lot of the build info for your car.

You have a notch which are slightly rare but not in the 50k rare range, more like 25k restored.

There is no " numbers matching" in 67

The best you can do is have an engine that's the correct engine for the car and was built in a timely fashion before the car was shipped, same for the transmission.

The vin on the door piller is ONLY referenced on a build sheet or the IBM card.

The sequence number on the fender tag is also referenced on the build sheet, the IBM card AND in 2 locations on the body, drivers trunk lip under the trunk seal and on the radiator core support on the driver's side typically under the radiator yellow sticker.

The vin or reference number is not stamped on the engine or trans ( I thought the seq number was stamped on the trans but I can't find any proof at this point)

The number stamped I to the body should read:

7 = year
# = (another number which is the assembly plant) in my case it is 2 for Hamtramic mi
### = Ship date (in my case it is 208 which is 2/08/67, but it could start with A,B or C October, November, December and 2 digits to represent the day like B01 = 11/01/66. Both would be 67 model year cars)
###### = the seq number from the fender tag.


My advice is to make the car drivable even if it means getting a junk yard SB to put in for now and enjoy the car. Then if you want to go big collect ALL the parts and then do the swap


Welcome aboard and good luck to you.

There are a few old cranky folks on FABO don't let your feelings get hurt.

Lastly give as much info and photos as you can with every question.

And if someone asks a question give them an answer.

Trouble shooting from 1000 miles away is painful but can be done.
 
Welcome to FABO @TheCudaKid ! Like most, if not all of the others that have replied, I'll suggest sticking with the small block. I live in Western NC, and I'm gonna make a guess that you live around Raleigh, maybe. There are several good machine shops down that way. Has your 273 been bored, or is it still the stock bore? Clean the top of a piston and see if you can find a piston size. Stock won't have one, and most oversized will have whatever size they are stamped into the top, like .020, .030, .040, etc. Get the machine work done and build it yourself. It's a great learning experience that is a major confidence booster. In 1975, I was your age saving every penny I could scrounge to build a 340 to swap into my 70 Duster that had a 318. I built that 340 myself, with some coaching from my neighbor. Much to my amazement (even now!) it ran, and ran like a scalded dog! You can do the math from my age above, in 1975, but here I am today at 66 years old and still love fooling with my cars. I do my best not to be one of the grumpy old guys, like @Dana67Dart mentioned....lol. Good luck to you, and keep your work updated here. :)
 
Dana67Dart said:
What they said!

To add to that. A pretty " rebuilt motor" does not mean it is a real rebuilt motor.

If you get a rebuilt get it from a place that will guarantee it.

Stick with the small block. You will be happy in the end.

With some work you can drop in a 318 or a 340 or a 360.

The 67 should have a cast iron wayerpunp that the inlet is on the driver's side.

Later ( 70 something and up) 318 340 360 have aluminum water pumps that are shorter and the inlet is on the pass side.

All the front timing cover and accessory drive components will swap from 67 to the later years.

Some of the SBs (360?) Are externally balanced so torque converters and dampers are engine specific.

Also 67 ( maybe 68 too) crank to converter bushing is unique to that year.

Exhost manifolds are unique to sb vs bb and to A bodies.

67 is a one year only year as many parts are not the same as 68 and up.

Good thing is you can get an IBM card copy from Stallentis historical. It will have a lot of the build info for your car.

You have a notch which are slightly rare but not in the 50k rare range, more like 25k restored.

There is no " numbers matching" in 67

The best you can do is have an engine that's the correct engine for the car and was built in a timely fashion before the car was shipped, same for the transmission.

The vin on the door piller is ONLY referenced on a build sheet or the IBM card.

The sequence number on the fender tag is also referenced on the build sheet, the IBM card AND in 2 locations on the body, drivers trunk lip under the trunk seal and on the radiator core support on the driver's side typically under the radiator yellow sticker.

The vin or reference number is not stamped on the engine or trans ( I thought the seq number was stamped on the trans but I can't find any proof at this point)

The number stamped I to the body should read:

7 = year
# = (another number which is the assembly plant) in my case it is 2 for Hamtramic mi
### = Ship date (in my case it is 208 which is 2/08/67, but it could start with A,B or C October, November, December and 2 digits to represent the day like B01 = 11/01/66. Both would be 67 model year cars)
###### = the seq number from the fender tag.


My advice is to make the car drivable even if it means getting a junk yard SB to put in for now and enjoy the car. Then if you want to go big collect ALL the parts and then do the swap


Welcome aboard and good luck to you.

There are a few old cranky folks on FABO don't let your feelings get hurt.

Lastly give as much info and photos as you can with every question.

And if someone asks a question give them an answer.

Trouble shooting from 1000 miles away is painful but can be done.
Click to expand...
...... AND THIS !!
 
If you’re starting from scratch, a big block is not much more expensive than a small block, but since you already have a small block, it would definitely be cheaper to stay with a small block if you’re not going to be making big changes. My Duster was a roller when I got it and I found a decent 440/727 for $500. I had some machine work done to the block and heads but I rebuilt it myself because I like the learning experience.
My advice would be to not always go the cheapest route when it comes to buying parts because you’ll end up replacing them for something nicer later on anyway.
The 440 has a tall deck height so it may interfere with the blower motor and brake booster if you have them. Headers are a tight fit but if you get the right ones they’re pretty easy to deal with. I have Schumacher Tri-Ys.
 
since it's your first foray and you're budget limited, i would strongly suggest that you stay small block.

while the (possibly) 4K price tag on a big block looks super enticing, all of the peripherals needed to install it will absolutely bury you. to get that thing shoehorned in there you're gonna need motor mounts ($200), a radiator or have your modified ($$), a transmission ($$~$$$), shorten your driveshaft ($), exhaust ($$$), some wiring work (inconsequential, DIY) and that's just to make it fit in there. [$=hundreds, $$$= 1K+]

then, you'll need to figure out if your steering all works (it won't) and your brake master cylinder(you'll probably have to swap something), maybe remove your heater blower motor and wiper motor.

then you'll need to be addressing the brakes and suspension to make it safe. if the suspension needs a full rebuild you get the extra treat of having a one year only idler arm that's expensive to go along with all the 67~72 parts that are also spendy.

and that's not even counting upgrading disc brakes, a rear end, springs, shocks...

that 4K for a big block could get you a decent little small block and back on the road pronto and you'd have some spare monies left over for other upgrades.
 
Having owned dozens of big block and small block A-Body's I can tell you for sure there is nothing like a big block in an A-body. Having said that, it is not for the faint of heart to go from a small block to a big block. If I was just starting out, and since things have changed significantly since I did my first one 40 years ago, I would go with a stroker small block and embarrass big block cars...
 
I would go to auto zone and buy a recon 318 engine for 1800 $ drop it in or make changes for hp
 
junkyardhero said:
since it's your first foray and you're budget limited, i would strongly suggest that you stay small block.

while the (possibly) 4K price tag on a big block looks super enticing, all of the peripherals needed to install it will absolutely bury you. to get that thing shoehorned in there you're gonna need motor mounts ($200), a radiator or have your modified ($$), a transmission ($$~$$$), shorten your driveshaft ($), exhaust ($$$), some wiring work (inconsequential, DIY) and that's just to make it fit in there. [$=hundreds, $$$= 1K+]

then, you'll need to figure out if your steering all works (it won't) and your brake master cylinder(you'll probably have to swap something), maybe remove your heater blower motor and wiper motor.

then you'll need to be addressing the brakes and suspension to make it safe. if the suspension needs a full rebuild you get the extra treat of having a one year only idler arm that's expensive to go along with all the 67~72 parts that are also spendy.

and that's not even counting upgrading disc brakes, a rear end, springs, shocks...

that 4K for a big block could get you a decent little small block and back on the road pronto and you'd have some spare monies left over for other upgrades.
Click to expand...
hey thanks for this comment, so far ive rebuild the entire from suspension, and wile under there i did a complete front break overhaul, i switched to disk breaks, did new shocks, control arms ext. im really wanting to go big or go home with this big block, buy i under stand were everyones coming from.
 
JDMopar said:
Welcome to FABO @TheCudaKid ! Like most, if not all of the others that have replied, I'll suggest sticking with the small block. I live in Western NC, and I'm gonna make a guess that you live around Raleigh, maybe. There are several good machine shops down that way. Has your 273 been bored, or is it still the stock bore? Clean the top of a piston and see if you can find a piston size. Stock won't have one, and most oversized will have whatever size they are stamped into the top, like .020, .030, .040, etc. Get the machine work done and build it yourself. It's a great learning experience that is a major confidence booster. In 1975, I was your age saving every penny I could scrounge to build a 340 to swap into my 70 Duster that had a 318. I built that 340 myself, with some coaching from my neighbor. Much to my amazement (even now!) it ran, and ran like a scalded dog! You can do the math from my age above, in 1975, but here I am today at 66 years old and still love fooling with my cars. I do my best not to be one of the grumpy old guys, like @Dana67Dart mentioned....lol. Good luck to you, and keep your work updated here. :)
Click to expand...
thanks, whats tough is every machine shop is taken, i am coming from raleigh, and ever machine shop around is 6 months out and even after finding a shop to do it, i was quoted 5k+ for the full rebuild, just pistons being 800. i want to sell this car for a flip so i can move on to my next one but thats seeming different with these prices. its also hard because i have no one to help me as my family isent into working on cars to this extent. thanks for all the advice.
 
Welcome! 1st stab at North American muscle? A 440 into an Abody as your 1st motor swap? Don't do it. If you have pulled the 273, check it out and rebuild it yourself. That would be easier than trying to install the 440, don't forget the rearend too.
 
JDMopar said:
Welcome to FABO @TheCudaKid ! Like most, if not all of the others that have replied, I'll suggest sticking with the small block. I live in Western NC, and I'm gonna make a guess that you live around Raleigh, maybe. There are several good machine shops down that way. Has your 273 been bored, or is it still the stock bore? Clean the top of a piston and see if you can find a piston size. Stock won't have one, and most oversized will have whatever size they are stamped into the top, like .020, .030, .040, etc. Get the machine work done and build it yourself. It's a great learning experience that is a major confidence booster. In 1975, I was your age saving every penny I could scrounge to build a 340 to swap into my 70 Duster that had a 318. I built that 340 myself, with some coaching from my neighbor. Much to my amazement (even now!) it ran, and ran like a scalded dog! You can do the math from my age above, in 1975, but here I am today at 66 years old and still love fooling with my cars. I do my best not to be one of the grumpy old guys, like @Dana67Dart mentioned....lol. Good luck to you, and keep your work updated here. :)
Click to expand...
Dana67Dart said:
What they said!

To add to that. A pretty " rebuilt motor" does not mean it is a real rebuilt motor.

If you get a rebuilt get it from a place that will guarantee it.

Stick with the small block. You will be happy in the end.

With some work you can drop in a 318 or a 340 or a 360.

The 67 should have a cast iron wayerpunp that the inlet is on the driver's side.

Later ( 70 something and up) 318 340 360 have aluminum water pumps that are shorter and the inlet is on the pass side.

All the front timing cover and accessory drive components will swap from 67 to the later years.

Some of the SBs (360?) Are externally balanced so torque converters and dampers are engine specific.

Also 67 ( maybe 68 too) crank to converter bushing is unique to that year.

Exhost manifolds are unique to sb vs bb and to A bodies.

67 is a one year only year as many parts are not the same as 68 and up.

Good thing is you can get an IBM card copy from Stallentis historical. It will have a lot of the build info for your car.

You have a notch which are slightly rare but not in the 50k rare range, more like 25k restored.

There is no " numbers matching" in 67

The best you can do is have an engine that's the correct engine for the car and was built in a timely fashion before the car was shipped, same for the transmission.

The vin on the door piller is ONLY referenced on a build sheet or the IBM card.

The sequence number on the fender tag is also referenced on the build sheet, the IBM card AND in 2 locations on the body, drivers trunk lip under the trunk seal and on the radiator core support on the driver's side typically under the radiator yellow sticker.

The vin or reference number is not stamped on the engine or trans ( I thought the seq number was stamped on the trans but I can't find any proof at this point)

The number stamped I to the body should read:

7 = year
# = (another number which is the assembly plant) in my case it is 2 for Hamtramic mi
### = Ship date (in my case it is 208 which is 2/08/67, but it could start with A,B or C October, November, December and 2 digits to represent the day like B01 = 11/01/66. Both would be 67 model year cars)
###### = the seq number from the fender tag.


My advice is to make the car drivable even if it means getting a junk yard SB to put in for now and enjoy the car. Then if you want to go big collect ALL the parts and then do the swap


Welcome aboard and good luck to you.

There are a few old cranky folks on FABO don't let your feelings get hurt.

Lastly give as much info and photos as you can with every question.

And if someone asks a question give them an answer.

Trouble shooting from 1000 miles away is painful but can be done.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this comment you clearly know alot, would u help me put together a list of everything that i would need, im building a spreadsheet so i know exactly what everything costs. im trying to figure out what moter mounts would work well with a 67, and how much i would be spending all in for the entire swap. like ive said in other replies, i have no one to help me and ive been going at this hole project alone for to much time. im not saying ive decided im doing the 440 but i want to know everything that i would have to put into it, money and time. once again thank you to everyone here with the encouraging comments and insightful information
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top