Head help....

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19blockhead72

19blockhead72

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Ok, Dart Sport 408, small valve jheads, air gap intake, Dougs headers, 484 lift/ 279 comp cam, 750 Edelbrock carb, Revinator box, 2500 Hughes converter, Cheetah valve body in 904, and 8.75 with 3.73 sure grip.
So I built this car to mostly run to shows and work but wanted it to be fun at the track. I finally ran it for the first time last weekend and was very happy with a 7.96 in the 1/8 with a 1.73 60 ft. This is all steel, full tank of gas, and even the spare tire. I haven't done much with fine tuning yet but that will come
My question is how much do I really stand to gain with a set of say Edelbrock heads over my small valve jheads? My over all goal at this point would be to run A little faster time and keep it consistent. I'm thinking I would like to stay with the same cam because it's very street able and really unassuming. Thanks
 
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I'd say you have the possibility of going .2-.3 seconds quicker.
 
So I was talking to some guys the other day and they seem to think unless I'm going to go bigger with the cam that the gains with just the heads would be minimal. Maybe I'll just work on making it tight and consistent and see what I can tune out of it for now.
 
Okay........that is..........if you think a head swap for .2-.3 seconds in the 1/8 is minimal. The, uh, guys, you were talking to, have a bunch of personal head swapping experience? Pretty sharp engine builders are they? I've done nothing but changed valve diameters and picked up 15 HP.

Making it tight, consistent and tune is a good idea.
 
IQ52 said:
Okay........that is..........if you think a head swap for .2-.3 seconds in the 1/8 is minimal. The, uh, guys, you were talking to, have a bunch of personal head swapping experience? Pretty sharp engine builders are they? I've done nothing but changed valve diameters and picked up 15 HP.

Making it tight, consistent and tune is a good idea.
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Yes they are very experienced drag racers. Their argument was that my current set up is well matched and to really gain at this point a larger cam would be needed. If I could be sure that my car would go say a 7.60 with new heads I would probably go for it. I guess the only way I could know would be to do it but 1200 bucks goes a long way else were in the car. Thats my dilemma.
I would be sick If ran about the same lol.
 
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19blockhead72 said:
Ok, Dart Sport 408, small valve jheads, air gap intake, Dougs headers, 484 lift/ 279 comp cam, 750 Edelbrock carb, Revinator box, 2500 Hughes converter, Cheetah valve body in 904, and 8.75 with 3.73 sure grip.
So I built this car to mostly run to shows and work but wanted it to be fun at the track. I finally ran it for the first time last weekend and was very happy with a 7.96 in the 1/8 with a 1.73 60 ft. This is all steel, full tank of gas, and even the spare tire. I haven't done much with fine tuning yet but that will come
My question is how much do I really stand to gain with a set of say Edelbrock heads over my small valve jheads? My over all goal at this point would be to run A little faster time and keep it consistent. I'm thinking I would like to stay with the same cam because it's very street able and really unassuming. Thanks
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I'd say you stand to pick up a good .5 seconds if you make some changes. Think about it, not only are you gonna get more HP from the edelbrock heads, quite a bit over small valve heads, but you're gonna drop ~30-40 lbs with the iron vs aluminum heads, drop the fuel level down to about 1/3 of full, ditch the spare tire and even remove the rear seat, you probably knock 150 pounds out of the car. 100 pounds saved is equal to a .1 on the tree supposedly. combined with .2 to .3 seconds from a better tune with more HP. I'd say if you've got the money, may as well give it a try.
 
Weight of the heads is a good point. I've heard a tenth for every hundred is right. The full interior is a point of pride but could drop the spare and some fuel. I don't want a caged race car in the end, just a respectable street car.
 
19blockhead72 said:
Weight of the heads is a good point. I've heard a tenth for every hundred is right. The full interior is a point of pride but could drop the spare and some fuel. I don't want a caged race car in the end, just a respectable street car.
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Rear seats come in and out very easily and quickly.
 
I WANT TO SEE THE VIDEO OF THE RUN FOR THE GUY ON THE YELLOW SNOWMOBILE THAT IS IN LINE BEHIND THE VW !!! LOL
 
And it's not that I didn't watch your car.... that just caught my eye. Just getting into snowmobiling myself...
 
They'll be lighter, and they'll add compression. They'll also add a little flow in the lift area of your cam. Those three will always make a well tuned car go faster. But by how much, and if that increase makes the expense worth it to you is anyone's guess. They are a better head. With a better chamber. And lighter. And easier to port. So if nothing else there's expansion room should you want to do more later.
 
"My over all goal at this point would be to run A little faster time and keep it consistent."
I would spend the money on other items. Plenty of folks are running small valve heads and going fast. Get the car out of the hole quicker with a double pumper, 15" drag radial 26 - 27" diameter max with your gear. Adjustable snubber and shocks then trial and error on best launch RPM are a few ideas to get you started.
 
mderoy340 said:
"My over all goal at this point would be to run A little faster time and keep it consistent."
I would spend the money on other items. Plenty of folks are running small valve heads and going fast. Get the car out of the hole quicker with a double pumper, 15" drag radial 26 - 27" diameter max with your gear. Adjustable snubber and shocks then trial and error on best launch RPM are a few ideas to get you started.
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I did only make a few passes with it. I didn't mess with the timing or anything, so realistically there could be another tenth or two that is hidden in the car somewhere. Also want to try a Turbo Action gate shifter too, still running stock floor shifter. Also didn't think about the fact that the track is like a two percent up hill grade lol.
 
i tried to duplicate your engine on the computer-dyno and it seems to me that your car set-up, including engine, is very efficient considering the specs given. that tells me your current heads are very good and might have been worked-on like porting/milling (??). but even in spite of this, substituting a set of stock edelbrocks in place of your j heads in my program, i believe your car could go 0.1 second quicker in the eight mile or slightly better with them .
 
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7e5hangten360 said:
i tried to duplicate your engine on the computer-dyno and it seems to me that your car set-up, including engine, is very efficient considering the specs given. that tells me your current heads are very good and might have been worked-on like porting/milling (??). but even in spite of this, substituting a set of stock edelbrocks in place of your j heads in my program, i believe your car could go 0.1 second faster in the eight mile or slightly better with them .
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I did some some work on the heads. I opened the intake ports and smoothed them a bit after gasket matching. Cleaned up the bowls and exhaust too. Maybe the work I did helped more than I thought it would. I still wonder if more timing wouldn't have made a big difference. I think it was set at 32 degrees total all in at 3 to 3200 rpms.
 
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19blockhead72 said:
I did some some work on the heads. I opened the intake ports and smoothed them a bit after gasket matching. Cleaned up the bowls and exhaust too. Maybe the work I did helped more than I thought it would. I still wonder if more timing wouldn't have made a big difference. I think it was set at 32 degrees total all in at 3 to 3200 rims.
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If your WOT AFR is good you can bump up timing 2* at a time until the car slows down, then go back. I always run at least 2 passes when making a change to see if the car likes it.
 
mderoy340 said:
If your WOT AFR is good you can bump up timing 2* at a time until the car slows down, then go back. I always run at least 2 passes when making a change to see if the car likes it.
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It's a shame the track is closed for the season but I will apply that next year.
 
I think your doing good and while you have room for improvements I would t get all upset and crazy about it much. Go hunting for quicker times and the best launch & tune you can find. There is a lot in suspension.

I do see the heads improving your set up to your goals BUT also see more expense than just the purchase price and gaskets. Once you have the heads in hand, it would be my advice to have them checked out and adjusted as needed and spend extra coin to port the bowls for added low lift flow.

Between the heads, tuning and suspension work, I’d bet 1/2 a second drop. No problem. Just a search to ge there.

What’s the cars weight?

Thanks for the video! That was cool.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I think your doing good and while you have room for improvements I would t get all upset and crazy about it much. Go hunting for quicker times and the best launch & tune you can find. There is a lot in suspension.

I do see the heads improving your set up to your goals BUT also see more expense than just the purchase price and gaskets. Once you have the heads in hand, it would be my advice to have them checked out and adjusted as needed and spend extra coin to port the bowls for added low lift flow.

Between the heads, tuning and suspension work, I’d bet 1/2 a second drop. No problem. Just a search to ge there.

What’s the cars weight?

Thanks for the video! That was cool.
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Weight, I have no clue. I'm sure it's in that 3300lbs range. I'm sure I could easily drop a hundred without doing anything major. I think I'll work on all the other things this winter, no reason to crack the motor open yet.
 
I think the heads after tuning and suspension work would be the order I follow. At least in this fashion, you will understand how the suspension works and adjusts. This would be good when more power is added. Which would probably require minor changes for best results. A diet isn't a bad idea ether.
 
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