HELP! I'm running out of ideas

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67cuda360

67cuda360

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I posted a thread a few months ago about the sensation of my rims falling off while going into a turn. Every time I go into a significant turn I feel a very serious shake coming from the front-end like all of the lug nuts have fallen out. In my earlier post I received some great suggestions and so I've decided to make some upgrades to the front end in the hopes of fixing my issue along the way.

My car is a 67 barracuda, with a 74+ K-member 360 with a 727, front disc brakes with 74+ spindles, power steering.

I recently replaced the following: Brand new QA1 lower and upper control arms, QA1 dynamic strut rods, new ball-joints uppers and lowers, QA1 single adjustable shocks, QA1 heavy duty tie-rod sleeves, new Borgeson Powersteering unit with new steering shaft coupler.

I followed all the instructions and torqued everything down to recommended specs with the vehicle at ride height. I pre-loaded the bearings as per the manual (tighten to 90 inch pound and then back-off one slot if I remember correctly).

I took it out for a test drive and the shake is still there.....

I'm starting to run out of ideas, the only thing that I can think of is that the inner/outer bearings in the front discs are toast. I checked to see if I could feel any play in the wheel, but it feels solid with no side to side or top to bottom movement. I'll have to check the Idler arm for play as suggested on my earlier post, but I'm pretty sure there is none.

Can bearings go bad without being able to feel play in the wheel?
 
Is your alignment set for handeling tight turns or just a regular alignment? Did you check the k frame at the control arms and where the strut rods come through?
 
Have you tried a different set of tires on the front? A 1 year old radial tire on my Dart had a belt let go, no obvious damage or bubble on outside of tire. Checked bearings etc. Switched tires from a friends car, problem went away.
 
I agree with 6pak.... If at all possible, take some feeler guages and make sure you can't get one between the rotor and rim mating surfaces. That will eliminate that and you can move on from there
 
Yes "RPMagoo" i was referring to the wheel bearings.

I checked the K member at the struts and the lower control arms when I replaced them, no damage or cracking that I could see. I haven't taken it to the alignment shop yet, but I have the caster, camber and toe set pretty close to where it should be, at least not far enough off that would create the issue that I'm having.

The current rims are properly seated and the lug nut holes don't seem to be out of round. I have new tires and rims coming early this week so once they are mounted and balanced I'll try them out.
 
is your steering box tight? the bolts to hold it to the k-frame that is. i would start there (including the coupler) and work your way out. check all the joints.
 
only other thing i can think of is a bad tire -- belts shifty kind of deal. swap one of there rears up front and see if you have same issue.
 
Check over the rear suspension?

Alignment specs?
 
steering box is tight and torqued down to recommended spec, including the coupler. Once my new rims and tires come in I'll throw them on to see if that changes things.

I'm planning on switching out my leaf springs (for the hotchkis springs I bought a few years ago that made the tires rub, due to wrong offset rim) out back when the new rims with proper offset come. I'm also switching the stock shocks for the adjustable QA1 shocks so I'll make sure to check everything there when I do so.

It is just so strange that it drives fine without noise and then when you turn in at speed I get this really violent shake (literally like the wheel is about to come off). I think I'll just replace the inner and outer bearings and races on both discs for peace of mind.
 
Left and right turns, or just one or the other? You mentioned the rears being the wrong offset with the springs you are going to change when the new wheels arrive...... What tire/wheel combo do you have up front now? Any chance of tire rub at the fender edge or frame when turning with the curent combo?
 
I think it is most pronounced on right hand turns, but I think I felt it too on left handers, just not as bad. The rims up front are 14x7 with a 4" offset with 205/70R14 tires. I have driven them without issues for years and they aren't rubbing on the fenders or frame. Late last year the problem suddenly started.

I had bought hotchkiss leaf springs a few years ago (1" lower then stock) and when I installed them the passenger side rear tire would hit the hump on the inner quarter panel. I found out the current rims on the back are the wrong offset (15x8.5 rim with a 4" offset and 255/60R15 tires) pushing them out too far. I've ordered new rims (18x8 with a 4.5" offset for the back and 17x7 with a 4" offset up front) so that should solve the rubbing issue out back.
 
Did you ever swap wheel studs?
Some newer studs are rounded on the back and won't let the disc hubs seat properly. I found this out during alignment, but it could have gotten missed.
 
Just throwing some stuff out there.
I take it you have checked the upper control arm brackets for possible cracked and or rust out conditions at the mounting locations.
Possibility of the idler arm k-member hole worn out?
Kickback from power steering at lock?
 
Thanks, I inspected the uca brackets but couldn't see any cracks or rust (but I'll check again to make absolutely sure) I'll also check the idler arm connection.

What's the best way of doing that, should it be up in the air or at ride height for that? I guess I'll try to see if it moves when I put some pressure on it with a crowbar or something?

The shaking/knocking happens way before lock. With the new borgeson box I installed there is absolutely no play at all when I turn the wheel while driving or being stationary.
 
Maybe pulling the shock off can give you an open look at the bracket attachment area. A couple "close up" pictures with a small camera.
 
None of the things you have replaced could/should cause wild shaking during cornering.
My guess is there's a bent front wheel or brake rotorhub. You won't feel much of that during straight driving but will pop-up when cornering.

Jack up the front wheels and give them a good spin by hand. Any issues should be easily seen.
 
I checked some of the suggestions. No cracks or damage to the UCA brackets or strut rod K member mounts, Idler arm is tight with no play or evidence of worn out K member attachment hole. I spun the tire and the wheel spins true, same with the rotor hub so they aren't bent.

I took the disc off and I'm going to replace the inner and outer bearings and races on both sides. What is the best way to get the dust cover/seal off of the back of the disc brake rotor? The manual says to "Drive out inner seal and remove bearing cone" but isn't the actual bearing blocking the actual seal if you want the drive it out from the front? I just want to make sure I don't damage something.
 
How about lower control arm nut not tight. Allowing it to shake in turn when load is put on it in turn. I know strut rod is there to hold it as well. If that nut isn't very tight the king pin can shake rattle and roll. Just my two cents.
 
If you want good advice, you must give good descriptions. So far, you have not done that. No offense.

To say it "sounds like my rims are falling off" sounds like a third grader. Just callin it like I see it. Give us good, accurate descriptions of the noise, or vibration or whatever it is and we might can get more specific. Vagueness is not a trait you want when trying to diagnose a problem like this.
 
Thank you for your constructive criticism "RustyRatRod" I actually think it is the perfect and most accurate description. If you can imaging what it would feel like to drive a car with broken or loose lug nuts. That's exactly what it feels like. It feels like the wheel is about to fall off, (it shake, wobbles, clunks from the front end when turning in and you also feel it in the steering wheel). I'm not sure how I can give a better description. But I appreciate your feedback.

Lower control arm bolt that goes through the K member is torqued to spec and so are the strut rod front and back bolts.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the dust seal on the back of the disc?
 
67cuda360 said:
Thank you for your constructive criticism "RustyRatRod" I actually think it is the perfect and most accurate description. If you can imaging what it would feel like to drive a car with broken or loose lug nuts. That's exactly what it feels like. It feels like the wheel is about to fall off, (it shake, wobbles, clunks from the front end when turning in and you also feel it in the steering wheel). I'm not sure how I can give a better description. But I appreciate your feedback.

Lower control arm bolt that goes through the K member is torqued to spec and so are the strut rod front and back bolts.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the dust seal on the back of the disc?
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