Hydrolock???

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d100clubcab

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http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=279600

So continuing the above post, I got it to not overheat anymore or have rust in the system, but now it is VERY hard to start.
Like it took me five mins of cranking to get it started Friday.
Then drove it 30 miles.
Let it sit til monday and it did not start at all.
Drained the battery from cranking so much.
Bought new battery at walmart at midnight (as well as Orange Juice, baby diapers and contact lens solution) and she started after another three mins of cranking and pouring gas in the eddy carb.

Is this a sign of hydrolock?
Im gearing up for a head gasket change but am not looking fwd to the time invlolved.
How long do head gaskets take anyway?
 
'Hydrolocked' means that there is so much water in a cylinder that it starts to rotate but then stops dead when the water & air in that cylinder compresses to almost solid. So, if your motor is spinning so much, then it is not technically hydrolocked, but that does not mean it does not have a head gasket leak either. Did you ever run a leak down test? I would not be pulling heads 'til I did that to be sure....though your prior thread certainly did sound like you have something blown. If you do pull heads, you can just slap them back on, but I would have the heads checked at a machine shop to see if they are warped ffromt he original overheating incident; otherwise you will be back at this again.
 
From your other post - pull the heads and look for cracks. I think you broke it (the engine) and you've done what you can without pulling it apart deeper. So now's the time to pull it apart.
 
moper said:
From your other post - pull the heads and look for cracks. I think you broke it (the engine) and you've done what you can without pulling it apart deeper. So now's the time to pull it apart.
Click to expand...

Pulled it apart and going to drop the heads off at the machine shop this week.
But can you tell me what you think from these pics?
The drivers side was OK i think
But the passenger side the gasket was falling apart as i lifted the head off the block


some pics of the block and head (drivers side)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sz4m_ExW1GM/VPJTUxqj4hI/AAAAAAAABsg/UaEBTrdGAK8/s640/IMG_0183.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ykrRGARZzP8/VPJTXvF7yqI/AAAAAAAABs0/HFZJ7zytZMk/s640/IMG_0186.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C_JrPHMRRg0/VPJTYCJqbhI/AAAAAAAABs8/O9M9ecMIKfE/s640/IMG_0188.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5GA8fNfpWOc/VPJTZYfSvOI/AAAAAAAABtE/-o0tt2lrGNQ/s640/IMG_0189.JPG

now passenger side

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ox1WIH4-Vgs/VPNr_1fjNJI/AAAAAAAABto/iOzU79AOPA0/s640/IMG_0191.JPG


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y8unJwYWjfE/VPNr_74SrsI/AAAAAAAABtk/0ej8TlqoSLk/s640/IMG_0192.JPG


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TJXdeKePfKA/VPNsCxAPm_I/AAAAAAAABt8/lntdJvFPtHs/s640/IMG_0193.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K8OG2qjEk3o/VPNsDKdyftI/AAAAAAAABuA/UKZg6XCQIUE/s640/IMG_0194.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qC-UtnfPh2Y/VPNsDSBweLI/AAAAAAAABuE/ZIAYGZdxJhM/s640/IMG_0195.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yFJ-Sx0nH-w/VPNsGd3BZXI/AAAAAAAABuQ/aHizLWdE984/s640/IMG_0196.JPG
 
d100clubcab said:
Pulled it apart and going to drop the heads off at the machine shop this week.
But can you tell me what you think from these pics?
The drivers side was OK i think
But the passenger side the gasket was falling apart as i lifted the head off the block


some pics of the block and head (drivers side)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sz4m_ExW1GM/VPJTUxqj4hI/AAAAAAAABsg/UaEBTrdGAK8/s640/IMG_0183.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ykrRGARZzP8/VPJTXvF7yqI/AAAAAAAABs0/HFZJ7zytZMk/s640/IMG_0186.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C_JrPHMRRg0/VPJTYCJqbhI/AAAAAAAABs8/O9M9ecMIKfE/s640/IMG_0188.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5GA8fNfpWOc/VPJTZYfSvOI/AAAAAAAABtE/-o0tt2lrGNQ/s640/IMG_0189.JPG

now passenger side

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ox1WIH4-Vgs/VPNr_1fjNJI/AAAAAAAABto/iOzU79AOPA0/s640/IMG_0191.JPG


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y8unJwYWjfE/VPNr_74SrsI/AAAAAAAABtk/0ej8TlqoSLk/s640/IMG_0192.JPG


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TJXdeKePfKA/VPNsCxAPm_I/AAAAAAAABt8/lntdJvFPtHs/s640/IMG_0193.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K8OG2qjEk3o/VPNsDKdyftI/AAAAAAAABuA/UKZg6XCQIUE/s640/IMG_0194.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qC-UtnfPh2Y/VPNsDSBweLI/AAAAAAAABuE/ZIAYGZdxJhM/s640/IMG_0195.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yFJ-Sx0nH-w/VPNsGd3BZXI/AAAAAAAABuQ/aHizLWdE984/s640/IMG_0196.JPG
Click to expand...



The second pic of the driver's side head shows signs of corrosion on the head surface (in the middle) as if it's had water on that surface for some time. Did the gasket seem flimsy in the center on that head? If it is corrosion and the rest of the head surface is not as corroded (they are usually pretty clean) then you probably had a blown gasket or warped head. If you clean it off and put a long straight edge on the head you can easily see if it's warped in the middle.
Also those two inside exhaust valves are a totally different color (possible water leak) than the two outside valves on that head.

The inside passenger valves have a similar look to them but there's not as much corrosion in the middle but the center of the head looks different than the outside surfaces (like the driver's side).

treblig
 
IMO, head and deck flatness check. Check head bolts for stretching. Clean all the water out. Change oil. Check for uniform piston to deck heights (if you think you actually hydro locked)? Have heads pressure checked if nothing evident?
 
All thoughts are spot on
I had a hunch the head gasket was going(gone) because I would periodically see a little white smoke on start up.
But there was no oil in the water or water in the oil.
There WAS rust in the water but that was because I misread some posts on here and I ran pure water for some time.

The rockers on both middle cylinders on both sides (driver & passgr) are dark colored (burnt) so that means some overheating.

I'll get the heads looked at and if not too expensive I'll have them refurbed.
If more than $200 I'll get those ebay EQ specials from that place down in Florida
Clearwater Cylinder Head i think it is
 
Looks like a common blown head gasket to me, skim cut the heads and buy new head gaskets. My Mazda head gasket looked like yours when I pulled it, it was original and the truck had 225000 miles on it......It was actually rusty. Blew between #1-2 and I drove it 35 miles home easy on the throttle as it was pinging like crazy. Nothing to lose on my part, turned out to have not damaged the head at all, just a new head gasket. My machine shop gets $20 for a skim cut, thats pretty cheap but Ive been going there for 8 years. Grinds valves for a buck a piece, but he rejects half I give him as they are found to be bent or burned (ex) beyond turning.
 
In that rocker pic centre bolt right rocker looks longer than the left ?? It looks like the shaft has a bow in it where that rocker sits.It could be from how the photo was taken,can you slide that rocker on the shaft left to right ,up and down with out any binding ?
 
http://imgur.com/tutrGYEl.jpg

Passenger side

I will do different angles when I get home

But what are y'all doing/using to clean the old gasket off the top of the block while engine is still on vehicle?

I thought about putting a 3M wheel on my drill and waking it off

But then I thought of all the debris and didn't want that falling in the crevices of my pistons and damaging my rings

Thoughts?
 
It's really obvious from the pictures that it has rotten disintigrated head gaskets at the very least.

Turn it till all the pistons are down in the hole a bit and pack the cylinders with lightly oil soaked paper towels. (so they stay packed down)
Scrape the deck with a sharp putty knife and/or single edge razor blades in a handle of some type (like a painters widget)
You can even block sand it with 180 wet/dry paper to get the surface clean of baked on debris.
Then pull the paper towels and shop vac the cylinders.
All this is assuming you are not going to pull the engine and have it and the heads cut for straight.
I have used this method for decades to temporarily save a motor and got away with it.

But there is also a fair chance it will do it again due to uneven surfaces.

Those valves probably need attention also (fair guess:D)
Pulling the springs one at a time and lapping them with a compound and a drill can extend the life awhile if they are not pitted or cracked.
Replacing the guide seals as you do this is a good idea.
Once the heads and intake are back on, flush the block before connecting the radiator hoses to get the chunks and crap out of the cooling system so they dont get hung up in the radiator and cause the whole problem all over again.

For a hundred bucks and some time, you may recover that motor to a usable state. (I did one that looked just exactly like that once and got 90,000 more out of it after I did exactly what I described)

Obviously the better option would be to drop in a good running condition replacement motor, or have that one redone, but sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do.
 
If you did not gulp down a large amount of liquid you did not hydro-lock it. Have seen a few motors that were hydoed...rods bend, cranks break and blocks will sometimes window.
 
The heads look like they're not flat in the center, and depending on how hot you got it, you may have damaged the rings, which is another reason it won't start easy. Make sure you tap the head bolt holes and chase the threads on the head blts, verify the deck is flat, and I'd have the heads milled to make sure they're flat. I use 30wt oil on the threads, and torque in 3 steps.
Also - your tune up might need some attention. The timing doesn't seem right, nor does the mixture.
 
moper said:
The heads look like they're not flat in the center, and depending on how hot you got it, you may have damaged the rings, which is another reason it won't start easy. Make sure you tap the head bolt holes and chase the threads on the head blts, verify the deck is flat, and I'd have the heads milled to make sure they're flat. I use 30wt oil on the threads, and torque in 3 steps.
Also - your tune up might need some attention. The timing doesn't seem right, nor does the mixture.
Click to expand...

With rotten leaking head gaskets, I don't know how you can tell all that.
Maybe he just needs to lean down the mixture on the coolant injection screws. :D

That motor has been burning coolant for quite some time.
 
Heads are at machine shop now getting run through
Should be ready tomorrow

And yes my carb was running VERY rich
Dropped that off to get rebuilt on Sunday and that was the first thing the guy said

I want to drop a G3 Hemi in this truck but $2,600 just for the harness and stuff to control it I will have to settle on a lightweight 408 with stock magnum heads

My daughter's 1st birthday party is this weekend so it will be two weeks before I get to slap this back together
 
TrailBeast said:
With rotten leaking head gaskets, I don't know how you can tell all that.
Maybe he just needs to lean down the mixture on the coolant injection screws. :D

That motor has been burning coolant for quite some time.
Click to expand...


I've been doing this almost 30 years now...lol.
The signs are all over those parts. Coolant doesn't burn, it cleans if it's really present a lot, or leaves deposits if it's not that much over time. There's enough grungy crap on those parts to tell a lot about how it was running, and compare that to his original complaints.
 
Looks like it has been sucking oil from valve seals or poor sealing intake gasket!
 
IMO these heads have been getting hot over the short time since rebuild. It's especially noticeable in the heat cross over area as the baked on oil suggests.

Were the head bolts torqued with a quality wrench?
Were the head gaskets Felpro "perma-torques"?
Were the head bolts "re-torqued" after a few hot cold cycles?
 
Daves69 said:
IMO these heads have been getting hot over the short time since rebuild. It's especially noticeable in the heat cross over area as the baked on oil suggests.

Were the head bolts torqued with a quality wrench?
Were the head gaskets Felpro "perma-torques"?
Were the head bolts "re-torqued" after a few hot cold cycles?
Click to expand...

I will post a PM I sent to another member shortly
But to answer your specific questions

1. I would hope and guess so. Engine was rebuilt by a trusted machine shop for thirty years of my uncle who owns a shop.

2. I dunno but I imagine they were whatever cheapy felpros because the master rebuild kit was the last one the shop could order from their distributor and it was only like $150 on super closeout price.

3. I doubt it. I know I didn't retorque them. The shop just rebuilt the motor and delivered it to my tranny guy who was around the corner so tranny guy could install accessories and button everything back up.
 
PM to another guy....



it overheated really bad about a year before i started having these problems
i got stuck in an single-lane HOV lane during rush hour traffic coming home one night
couldnt turn my truck off as there is no shoulder in there
so when i got it home it wouldnt shut off for nothing
just kept dieseling
even had pulled fuel line from carb and it kept running

so im guessing warped head or blown gasket

but the funny thing is,
i ran it for a year with ZERO head gasket symptoms
no water in oil, no oil in water, no white smoke out the pipes




even though i get help from putting my situation out there,
it's a fun learning experience for others
i like to read all the different views and opinions of folks
 
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