Keisler 5-speed conversion on Early A-body: Install has begun

[daves66valiant]

Okay guys this is it. I finally got started on the install of the Keisler TKO-500 5-speed conversion kit for my 66 Valiant Convertible. Actually for right now I am using my parts car (a 66 hardtop valiant) as a dry run install without the engine until I get my car back from the painter. This way I can make mistakes without pulling my hair out. #-o It's nice not having a K-frame and suspension to deal with on this trial fitment. Plus things should be much quicker, smoother and easier once I really get started on the vert.

I will try to give detailed info and pictures as I progress through this project so it can be a future reference for other early a-body guys. The Keisler instructions are primarily for the 67 and up a-bodies but so far everything is working out okay. We'll see if this is a "no hack job" operation on the early A-body. Let the good, the bad and the ugly begin. :happy1:

Here is what I have done so far:

Step 1) Drilled two holes A and B for the template tracing. Underneath the car, hole A is centered directly in front of the torsion bar support rail. I drilled through the support rail and the inside floor with a 3/16" bit in the center. Hole B is centered and measured 10.5 inches forward of hole A. Figure 1, 2.

Step 2) Once holes A and B are done you can lay the supplied template over the tranny tunnel and trace out the areas that will be cut out. Figure 3.

Step 3) I used an electric die grinder and made very quick work of cutting out the template holes. I deburred the cuts as well. Figure 3.

Step 4) With that done, I proceeded to mount the tranny without the engine. I ran in to a couple of problems with the tranny crossmember and the poly tranny mount. The holes on the crossmember needed to be massaged (1mm) with a file to get the holes to line up. Now the tranny mount could be bolted loosely onto to the crossmember and it slides forward and backward easily for transmission fitting adjustments once mounted. I went ahead and mounted the crossmember onto the tranny. Seemed to make things a little easier. The other problem I had was the tranny crossmember hit the torsion bar rail before I could line up all four holes of the tranny crossmember. This was a pain in the ***. Now I would have to remove everything and grind a little off the crossmember so the tranny could slide up into the tunnel enough to get all the holes to match. I don't think so, but I'm wondering what difference it would make if the car had all it's weight on the suspension/body (ie on a rack) and whether or not the crossmember would line up with the slight body flex. :scratch: Figure 4, 5, 6.

Here is what it looks like inside the car. Everything clears but it is very tight. You really have to be careful and watch out for the neutral safety switch hookup in side the tunnel. The template seemed pretty accurate. I am wondering if things will fit slightly different in the convertible. We'll see. I will continue to update this thread as I progress. Stay tuned. :wav:

 

[Dodgenut64]

Very nice. This 5 speed is on my list of things to get. please update us. My 64 vert is an auto also so this thread should be very helpful. I wonder if this shifter placement will come up were i want it to. im trying to fit a 65 polara center console (automatic) in my 64, and was wondering if the shifter on the TKO would come up close to where the automatic shifter is on the polara center console. I planned to cut open the area were the automatic shifter is to make room for the manual shifter. HHMMMMMmmmmm????

 

[Longgone]

I`m watching this closely Dave as I`m converting from 4-5 spd. also.

 

[Lone Yankee]

And I make three. Good work so far and thanks in a big way for sharing your conversion with us!

-LY

 

[daves66valiant]

My next thing to do is to see if trimming the crossmember will help ease the tranny into place. If that goes well I think I am going to cut out a spare sheetmetal template for the floor tunnel hump. I know it's going to be covered by carpet but I want to make sure I don't have to replace the front piece of carpet because the floor hump was made too big. Once you bend a flat piece of sheetmetal, it's hard to get it straight again. This way I can practice bending/forming it to the floor, plus I'll get a chance to practice/improve my welding skills as well. I want the floor to appear to the casual observer that it came like this from the factory. I only want to do it once on the real deal, it's nice having a parts car to practice on for sure. :coffee2:

 

[daves66valiant]

I've got some ideas about how to make this install go smoother as far as the complete package I'm working with goes. I have the 340 and early a-body tti headers ready to go and I have been thinking of ways to avoid the huge hassle of the headers and drivetrain install. I have a new front suspension kit from ESPO and plan on getting the front suspension parts (k-frame, upper and lower control arms, torsion bars, etc) powdercoated.

Well, here is my idea. I was thinking of assembling the k-frame, engine, headers, mini-starter, power steering, control arms, disc brakes as a single unit and mounting it to a moveable stand/dolly that can be placed under the car. I would have to somehow raise the front end of the car high enough to slide the assembly under the car and then just bolt the K-frame itself to the frame. Sounds easy but I think I am going to have to really plan this out well to make it work. I think it should work and will make the complete install so much easier and I'd avoid all the serious early a-body fitting issues in one fell swoop. I really wish I had a hoist in my backyard. Do places rent these things??? :scratch:

I know this is not really a new idea. I think I saw some manufacturer's video a while back with a product that holds the whole kit and kabootle.

Thanks for any thoughts and input.
-Dave

 

[70coyoteduster]

This isn't the best picture but this is how mine turned out. A buddy with exellent sheet metal skills did my tunnel. You'll love the 5 speed. Keep us posted. It'll be great to see the finished car.

 

[daves66valiant]

This isn't the best picture but this is how mine turned out. A buddy with exellent sheet metal skills did my tunnel. You'll love the 5 speed. Keep us posted. It'll be great to see the finished car.

Very cool. Your's looks great. How's the area arround the gas pedal. This is where I don't want too much metal in the way if possible. I have a bench seat also and am hoping the shifter that came with the kit will be okay. Otherwise I may go with modifying a pistol grip.

 

[racingsnake440]

excellent thread. can't see any reason why installing motor & k member etc all in one go wouldn't work and seems like it would make things easier

 

[oldmoparsrule]

Hi Dave,
I like your idea of assembling everything to the K Frame and then dropping the car over the assembled k-frame. I was at Moshers shop in Monrovia, and that is how they do their RB Blocks in the 62 to 65 B bodies. Mosher said that it was much easier to set everything up that way where you have access to it all, and it keeps the paint from getting damaged during the "installation".

http://www.moparsbymosher.com/projects/sniders62/sniders62.htm

About a third way down the page, you will see the 62 Savoy up in the air ready to be dropped over the cross ram 413. Surfing around his site, you should see a few more pictures of this process. To me, it looks like he is bolting the jig used to lift the chassis to the bumper mounting bolts on the front of the frame.

Lastly...your neighbors will think you are building a funny car with a flopper body when they see it all jacked up in the air...Fire up the 340 with open headers a few times and their suspicion will be confirmed... :headbang:

Let me know if you need help with this.

Thanks
Clint S
San Gabriel

 

[Longgone]

I hope the change in the center hump sheet metal doesn`t prevent me from using my center console. I`d like to keep it, not to mention I`d have to recarpet if I don`t.
On the other subject:
Were`nt all Mopars assembled with the K-member attached to the engine and the body down lowered over it?

 

[lilcuda]

Add me to the list of people who want to do this swap in the future. Ever since I read the article in Mopar Action about the Keisler 5 speed, I've wanted one in my 66 Barracuda. My inquiries to Keisler about what it takes to install one in an early A body have gone mostly unanswered. My car is an original 4 speed console car. I would really like to keep the console if possible, but that may be asking too much.

Thanks for documenting this process, Dave!

Lee
1966 Barracuda, 340 4 speed

 

[fstfish66]

GREAT docamentation,,,,very helpfulll..im about to do some up grades on my 66 and the 5 speed,,may come to life,,some how,,i see that you are using there hyd throw out bearing,,,,all depends who you talk to and where as to getting any corect info from keislier,,ive seen more answers on this tread,,,then i ever got from keislier,,,keep us posted,, man looks great,,

 

[64dartwagon]

First off I think this should be printed in a magazine with all these clear pics and explinations. The way I read it about assembling everything on the K member and loading it under the car your problem was how do you get the car high enough to fit it under? If this is the case have you thought about using two engine hoists? One on each side of the front lifting from a matching hardpoint of the frame. This is the way that came to mind for me if I was to do the install this way. Other than that I would think that it would be a big problem with trying to get it high enough on jack stands, let alone the jackstands would be under the firewall area to make clearance for the assembly to slide in from the front. Keep up the great work. And keep us posted.

 

[fstfish66]

70 duster,,,looks great,, which box are you using ??? 3;27 or 2;87 first gear ???????and about how much of an rpm drop did you see in 5th ???

 

[daves66valiant]

Check this out. I did a little searching on my own as well. Very cool Road Runner with a 383. Looks like a full concours job almost.

Here is the site where I found it. Wish I could find plans for the jig used. But I'm sure it is not too hard to design.
http://www.hoffmanswinnerscircle.com/69rtconvertible/Engine_Related_Photos.htm
It's just a matter of building the engine/trany/suspension dolly and getting the car hoisted up in the air enough. I'm thinking I will bolt something to the front bumper as an attachment point for my cherry picker. I wonder how high I can get it.

 

[daves66valiant]

Hi Dave,
I like your idea of assembling everything to the K Frame and then dropping the car over the assembled k-frame. I was at Moshers shop in Monrovia, and that is how they do their RB Blocks in the 62 to 65 B bodies. Mosher said that it was much easier to set everything up that way where you have access to it all, and it keeps the paint from getting damaged during the "installation".

http://www.moparsbymosher.com/projects/sniders62/sniders62.htm

About a third way down the page, you will see the 62 Savoy up in the air ready to be dropped over the cross ram 413. Surfing around his site, you should see a few more pictures of this process. To me, it looks like he is bolting the jig used to lift the chassis to the bumper mounting bolts on the front of the frame.

Lastly...your neighbors will think you are building a funny car with a flopper body when they see it all jacked up in the air...Fire up the 340 with open headers a few times and their suspicion will be confirmed... :headbang:

Let me know if you need help with this.

Thanks
Clint S
San Gabriel

I'm convinced now this will be the best route for me by far. The Mosher boyz are not too far down the road from Ventura. Very cool work they do for sure. I may call and check out if I can see their shop and the jig they use. From the pictures I see it is looks pretty easy lifting the car up with the engine hoist as they did, which is what I was originally thinking. I just didn't now how safe it would be until now. You guys should check out this link. Awesome pictures. SOme of the best I've ever seen.
-Thanks Clint for the link that helps tons

 

[ThogtheCaveman]

Hey if you are looking for that cradle thingy that holds up the k-frame+engine+all goodies, they have one in the new mopar muscle magazine (May 2007), page 40. It is from US Car Tool, uscartool.com, it is kind of expenive at $400 though... :-|

 

[daves66valiant]

Hey if you are looking for that cradle thingy that holds up the k-frame+engine+all goodies, they have one in the new mopar muscle magazine (May 2007), page 40. It is from US Car Tool, uscartool.com, it is kind of expenive at $400 though... :-|

Yikes!!! That is a little steep. I actually found a pretty good solution. I have an extra engine stand from harbor freight that I can modify to look somewhat like the one in the pictures from this site. http://www.moparsbymosher.com/
Look for the Greg Smith's 1964 Dodge 330 in the project section. Man I love looking at the pictures these guys have posted on their site. They are awesome references. I am super tempted now to pay them a visit. Here is a sample pic from the site. http://www.moparsbymosher.com/projects/gregsmiths64/driveline/jigged-02.jpg

Very cool. You've got me jazzed now Clint.

 

[daves66valiant]

I think this engine stand will work perfect with a couple of modifications. I know what I'll be doing tomorrow now.

 

[Longgone]

Dave , one keg of beer = one car lift.

 

[daves66valiant]

Dave , one keg of beer = one car lift.

NICE. I love that idea. Now all I need is a bunch of moparites over for beers.

 

[Longgone]

You`d just have to get `em fast before the keg is drained!!! Great thread here, I`m anxious to see how it all comes together.

 

[dart4forte]

NICE. I love that idea. Now all I need is a bunch of moparites over for beers.

Hey Dave, you far from Van Nuys? I'll be down for Springfling. I'd like to take a look at your project.

 

[daves66valiant]

Hey Dave, you far from Van Nuys? I'll be down for Springfling. I'd like to take a look at your project.

I'm about 50 miles north on the 101 fwy. I should be at the fling but I think my car will still be under construction at that time. I get dibs on the first keg stand if you stop by :headbang: