Ok so lets really talk K-members here Folks

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johnparts

johnparts

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Ok so I will start this off and you guys take it where you see fit.

I am going to compare apples to apples here and see if you can see what I see. I will show you 3 k-members and their prices and you tell me if I am the only one that thinks we are just suffering from the Mopar price gouge.

This is the AJE Mustang unit and it retails for $399
mustangkmember.jpg


Full Chromoly construction and proven to handle a good deal of street abuse as well as race abuse. This unit is on the high end of the price range of Mustang units. BMR makes a K member that retails for $249.

This is the AJE 4th gen Camaro unit and retails for $419
camarokmember.jpg

Again full Chromoly proven unit that is on the high end of the spectrum for prices.

2 big considerations here these units use all stock components bolted to them so you don't need extra parts to bolt them in.

Here is a unit from Mancini that includes the control arms and what not. I believe this is made by CAP for Mancini but I'm not sure retails for $2300
kmember.jpg


Notice anything here folks? Construction seems pretty simple compared to the Camaro unit doesn't it? Sure it is set up for custom arms and spindles.

That is where my conversations with my builder have been going. Feel free to give your opinions here.
 
I don't see upper shock mounts on any of these K-members. I'll assume all use coil-over shocks and the factory upper shock mount. This will require substantial reinforcement of the upper mounts, as they WILL NOT support the weight of the car.

Take a look at the RMS Alterktion.
 
johnparts said:
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Here is a unit from Mancini that includes the control arms and what not. I believe this is made by CAP for Mancini but I'm not sure retails for $2300
...
Click to expand...

Then you need to compare apples to apples. "control arm and what not" are expensive. And Mopar ones with T-bar provisions are more expensive to make that the Chevy A-arm with spring perch bucket. Two Mopar LCA should cost about the same or more than the custom K-member in regards to manuf costs.

But I get your general idea. And the cost difference is due to volume.

Next question is why do you feel the need for a custom K-member that has the T-bar arrangement. You're not going to get the header clearance gains from removing the T-bars nor better selection and cheaper springs.

The weight loss is mostly due to the rack. I see the going to the rack as the biggest gain, by far, in the tubular K's that retain T-bars. All that money for a rack.

Racks are nice, lightweight and precise. But the rack alone is not the Second Comming of Christ in terms of road feel and response.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
The demand for Mopar stuff is lower vs. Camaro and Mustang.

That = a higher price.
Click to expand...

That is true..........but if they lowered the price Demand would sky rocket!

Someone needs to build a jig and take over the market for Mopars! Even the Alter K is like 5k by the time you set it up complete. That is a JOKE in my opinion. Yes it is a nice piece but F... that C...!! No way I would even think about buying one of them for that price...... I may just fabricate my own just like I did with my Triangulated 4 Link! I saved over 1k and it is hella stronger than what is offered on the market for dang sure!
 
C130 Chief said:
I don't see upper shock mounts on any of these K-members. I'll assume all use coil-over shocks and the factory upper shock mount. This will require substantial reinforcement of the upper mounts, as they WILL NOT support the weight of the car.

Take a look at the RMS Alterktion.
Click to expand...
These are both built for strut cars but they are stock with struts I'm not talking coil over conversions here.

The RMS unit is even pricier then the Mancini unit and requires all kinds of parts to make it work other then just a k-member.

And the response about Mustang/ Camaro demand. I have installed hundreds of Mustang K-members But the 4th gen Camaro k-members I've never even sold one let alone installed one. 4th Gens were shunned buy most for major mods in requards to suspension.
 
C130 Chief said:
I don't see upper shock mounts on any of these K-members. I'll assume all use coil-over shocks and the factory upper shock mount. This will require substantial reinforcement of the upper mounts, as they WILL NOT support the weight of the car.

Take a look at the RMS Alterktion.
Click to expand...

The Mancini one uses factory T-bars. Or at least one of them does.

That picture above it looking at the bottom of the K.
 
Mad Dart said:
That is true..........but if they lowered the price Demand would sky rocket!

Someone needs to build a jig and take over the market for Mopars! Even the Alter K is like 5k by the time you set it up complete. That is a JOKE in my opinion. Yes it is a nice piece but F... that C...!! No way I would even think about buying one of them for that price...... I may just fabricate my own just like I did with my Triangulated 4 Link! I saved over 1k and it is hella stronger than what is offered on the market for dang sure!
Click to expand...
And no bad feelings here to Bill at RMS but the square tube he uses is cheap compared to the Chromoly tubing these are made with and tons weaker.
 
autoxcuda said:
Then you need to compare apples to apples. "control arm and what not" are expensive. And Mopar ones with T-bar provisions are more expensive to make that the Chevy A-arm with spring perch bucket. Two Mopar LCA should cost about the same or more than the custom K-member in regards to manuf costs.

But I get your general idea. And the cost difference is due to volume.

Next question is why do you feel the need for a custom K-member that has the T-bar arrangement. You're not going to get the header clearance gains from removing the T-bars nor better selection and cheaper springs.

The weight loss is mostly due to the rack. I see the going to the rack as the biggest gain, by far, in the tubular K's that retain T-bars. All that money for a rack.

Racks are nice, lightweight and precise. But thier not the Second Comming of Christ in terms of road feel and response.
Click to expand...
My point is there has to be a way to get this stuff affordable for the guys who run on a working mans budget. I know that a unit can be built that is modular to support multiple suspension configurations.
 
autoxcuda said:
Then you need to compare apples to apples. "control arm and what not" are expensive. And Mopar ones with T-bar provisions are more expensive to make that the Chevy A-arm with spring perch bucket. Two Mopar LCA should cost about the same or more than the custom K-member in regards to manuf costs.

But I get your general idea. And the cost difference is due to volume.

Next question is why do you feel the need for a custom K-member that has the T-bar arrangement. You're not going to get the header clearance gains from removing the T-bars nor better selection and cheaper springs.

The weight loss is mostly due to the rack. I see the going to the rack as the biggest gain, by far, in the tubular K's that retain T-bars. All that money for a rack.

Racks are nice, lightweight and precise. But thier not the Second Comming of Christ in terms of road feel and response.
Click to expand...
The K member alone pricing is $1250 retail
 
Is this all to get a 5.7 in your scamp?

In that case some form of custom K-member has some big gainers. The oil pan and exhaust are PITA with stock based K, IIRC.

I believe Daty Rodgers in Texas had a tough time useing a stock K with a 5.7 conversion?? But he did do it.
 
autoxcuda said:
Is this all to get a 5.7 in your scamp?

In that case some form of custom K-member has some big gainers. The oil pan and exhaust are PITA with stock based K, IIRC.

I believe Daty Rodgers in Texas had a tough time useing a stock K with a 5.7 conversion?? But he did do it.
Click to expand...
No I've already had the engine in the car. For me this is to have a killer front suspension for daily driving and while building it to be able to pass the deal on to you guys.
 
johnparts said:
And no bad feelings here to Bill at RMS but the square tube he uses is cheap compared to the Chromoly tubing these are made with and tons weaker.
Click to expand...

One thing I do know for sure is you could duplicate the same thing he makes stronger and for a lot less $$. His systems are for the guy that wants it now, will pay the $$ and don't have the skills/time or talent to even try and attempt to make one. I do notice that most guys who buy his K member never seem to get their cars done or they are 10 year projects. Could that be because of the price and they can't get to the next steps? I wonder................

I don't see why one of us guys on this site couldn't build one of these in a few days. The proper planning would take a while but once that is done it would seem to be easy enough of a task to complete in my opinion.

I think I am going to research it out and build one! I am going to call it The MAD "K", haaaaaaaaa
 
autoxcuda said it all. They could cut the price in half and many of us still wouldn't buy one.

You are getting little return per Dollar spent.

Most of this stuff is for bragging rights…. "Look Mom….. I spent all this money for something that does very little, but it sure looks cool"
 
Mad Dart said:
One thing I do know for sure is you could duplicate the same thing he makes stronger and for a lot less $$. His systems are for the guy that wants it now, will pay the $$ and don't have the skills/time or talent to even try and attempt to make one. I do notice that most guys who buy his K member never seem to get their cars done or they are 10 year projects. Could that be because of the price and they can't get to the next steps? I wonder................

I don't see why one of us guys on this site couldn't build one of these in a few days. The proper planning would take a while but once that is done it would seem to be easy enough of a task to complete in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I'm a few steps ahead of you here. I should have my prototype here in a week or so
 
Mad Dart said:
That is true..........but if they lowered the price Demand would sky rocket!

Someone needs to build a jig and take over the market for Mopars! Even the Alter K is like 5k by the time you set it up complete. That is a JOKE in my opinion. Yes it is a nice piece but F... that C...!! No way I would even think about buying one of them for that price...... I may just fabricate my own just like I did with my Triangulated 4 Link! I saved over 1k and it is hella stronger than what is offered on the market for dang sure!
Click to expand...

Exactly why Im not interested at any price over $400. Seems to me that low demand is just an excuse to price gouge.And the demand will stay low as long as pricing is stupid.

There is a certain element of the mopar crowd that seems to think they should pay more just because it's a mopar. I call it barret jackson fever. Clear judgement has been clouded regarding musclecars for years because of this crap.People with too much money have virtually ruined the hobby for newcomers.We have forgotten that these cars were MASS PRODUCED for years and years. It has become a money game now. I see those bj idiots paying 2-3x what the car is worth and just laugh.Thats what they get for wanting something and not knowing anything,lol.
 
johnparts said:
I'm a few steps ahead of you here. I should have my prototype here in a week or so
Click to expand...

That's good. Not stepping on your toes at all. If I built one it would be for my own use and my use only! I wouldn't give away the recipe either!

Glad to hear you are getting it done!
 
johnparts said:
No I've already had the engine in the car. For me this is to have a killer front suspension for daily driving and while building it to be able to pass the deal on to you guys.
Click to expand...

Make the parts yourself and cut out the middle men. That cost reduction can be passed on to the customer.

That much more killer looking front suspension than a stock derived system?

Or that much more killer performing front suspension than a stock derived system? For a similar price of an upgraded stock derived system?
 
autoxcuda said:
Make the parts yourself and cut out the middle men. That cost reduction can be passed on to the customer.

That much more killer looking front suspension than a stock derived system?

Or that much more killer performing front suspension than a stock derived system? For a similar price of an upgraded stock derived system?
Click to expand...
Performing unit. And I don't have the resources to build it myself.
 
The one I'm working on is good looking. Mostly that is just because I can't stand my stuff looking like crap. It is designed to perform. I Won't say much more right now.. But I'm working on it.

The hardest part is the weird stepped taper that Mopar uses on their LCA's.
 
The RMS unit is even pricier then the Mancini unit and requires all kinds of parts to make it work other then just a k-member.
Click to expand...


first off why would anyone put just a tube k-frame in their car and use all stock suspension parts? how much weight can it really save? whats a stock k-frame weigh? 35 pounds maybe? a little more if braced and fully welded? i just don't see the pont in it.

second the RMS unit is a complete system. when you buy it you get everything to drive your car into a garage, install the complete system and drive back out of the garage. the only thing you supply yourself is wheel bearing grease and brake fluid. those other units all look to need quite a bit of money to make a complete system of. just saying.
 
make it so the price will not kill the budget or the build and they will sell i think i know i will take 1 and if possible with my sons car 1 ok thats 2 not at the same time cause the build is being done on diff. time but ..thats just me mike
 
abodyjoe said:
the RMS unit is a complete system. when you buy it you get everything to drive your car into a garage, install the complete system and drive back out of the garage. the only thing you supply yourself is wheel bearing grease and brake fluid. those other units all look to need quite a bit of money to make a complete system of. just saying.
Click to expand...

I agree Joe...However, I'm one of "those guys" who actually has an RMS unit, but not in use...As my car is one of those "10 year builds" It was very easy to install, and is very complete.

I think the comment about it not being made out of chromoly is sort of a joke...The RMS unit doesn't need to be made out of chomoly...
 
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