Already gave it to a guy a while back, wounded vet.Hey , man. I believe there is a new member who's looking for a good /6 for his ride since he doesn't have much cash to rebuild his. And he's like 16. Just fyi
Project 440DD
- Thread starter dukeboy440
- Start date
-
1970dartcustom
of the Moore clan
Nice!
A few people have been asking me about my rear suspension, i should have the thing installed in the coming weeks as i get free time from 2 kids under the age of 3, so pics will be uploaded as I go. In the short term, I thought i'd discuss why I chose the kit I'm going to use. I'll also try to answer any questions you may have. Keep in mind, I dont claim to be nor am I a suspension expert. I have a working and practical knowledge is all.
Now before I get into why I chose or decided against one kit or another, this is just my opinion, what works for me may not suit your needs or vise versa. This post is not design, meant or implied to sell or not sell a kit. I am merely stating my reasons upfront for my choice, I am not putting down any other kit or maker. I am listing the retail prices by each as well. But mainly because cost does play into every decision. What I will do, is attempt to thoroughly explain my choice, I will answer any questions to the best of my knowledge, however what I will not do, I repeat, what I'm not going to do is to debate one maker over the other, as what happened the last time I posted my front kit. If you wanna turn something into a mud slinging contest, go join Hillary's or Donald's campaign team. Also, I promise to have typos, it happens, especially with autocorrect haha. If you are good with that, continue reading, if not, dont bother reading on.
First I listed some requirements:
Had to be adjustable and suitable for road racing, drag racing, street
Had to be easily tunable with multiple tuning features
Be cost efficent, bang for buck
Use at minimum dual adjusting shocks
Allow for the maximum width tires possible without backing halving
Ajustable ride height
Allow for corner balancing the car
Allow me to keep my rear seat
So lets look at my options:
Mopar SS springs, sway bar and Dual adjusting shocks.
RMS Street Lynx
QA1 6 Link
Magnum Force Pro Link
Control Freak 4 Link (parallel with pan hard)
Custom
Option 1: Mopar SS Springs, rear sway kit and dual adjusting shocks(vikings, qa1?)
Pros:
Tried and true long time upgrade for Mopars
Cheapest option
Easiest to install
Cons:
No adjustability other than the shocks
Only 2 spring rate options
Requires a spring relocation kit to fit wider tires
No ride height adjustment
Cannot corner balance
Cost: 920 with shocks, sway and springs( not counting relocation kit)
Decision: No go, must have more adjustment
Option 2: RMS Street Lynx
Pros:
Popular upgrade.
Some tuning features
Dual adjusting Coil Overs
Cons:
Trianugluated 4 Link means limited adjustability.
No Sway Bar
Requires spring relocation kit to get wider tires
Cost: 1995
Decison: No Go, while it has some adjustability, very limited with a triangulated 4 link.
Option 3: QA1 6 link
Pros:
Adjustable Coil overs(3 options)
Bolt in
Adjustable rid height(1 in +/-)
Sway bar
Cons:
Bind central, just dont see how this works to improve handling let alone without binding
Expensive, most expensive of any kits
Heaviest option, the added parts to make this a 6 link add weight.
No need for 2 rear ward links
Keeps the roll center in the high, non adjustable position
Uses stock locations to bolt in, not compatible with inboard relaction kits meaning wider tires arent possible.
Cost: 2995.00(Single adjustable coilovers); 3195 (dual adjusting); 3895 (4 way adjustable)
Decision: No go, too expensive and just offers no real advantages in performance or tuning over a 4 link.
Option 4: Magnum Force Pro-Link
Pros:
Adjustable in alot of areas but roll center and ride height are not
Choice of panhard bar or watts link.
Mounts inboard of frame to allow much wilder tires
Cons:
Location of watts link puts the roll center high above the rear axle, chosing the panhard would help this but panhard isnt adjustable
Roll center is high and non adjustable.
Doesnt come powder coated but they will for an extra 500 bucks
2nd most expensive kit
Magnum force's reputation
No Sway bar option
Cost: 2574 bare with dual adjusting coil over shocks, 3069 powdercoated with same coil overs
Decision: No Go, high roll center would actually work against my front suspension, creating an unpredictable roll in high speed corners
Option 5: Control Freak Rear suspension Parallel 4 Link with Panhard bar
Pros:
Adjustable with pan hard(though limited on the panhard)
Dual Adjustable coil overs standard.
Parallel 4 link allows for road racing, drag racing and street driving.
Adjustable ride height
Sway bar option(329+)
Allows wider tires
Complete, powder coated ready to go kit
Cons:
Very hard to think of any here, so I had to split hairs.
While the panhard bar is adjustable, I'd prefer slots to get a finer tune on the panhard bar but I'm splitting hairs so i wont count this in my decision.
The pan hard bar allows the rear to move slightly along a curve bias, therefore, while wider tires are allowed, still need to run some clearance to ensure they dont rub the frame or quarters.
Cost: 1899 without sway bar, 2228 with sway bar
Decision: Go, adding to the consider list. With only one negative I can find with it, definity fits the bill for what I need.
For option 6, Originally I started out to design and build my own. While I can fab and weld and have the tools to do so, my skills aren't up to the level I trust enough with my life or the lives of those with me. Since I lack fabrication skills to this level, I decided to give Carl Gerst a call, give him my requirements and see if he could come up with something that would work. When I called, I spoke with him for over an hour, came to learn that he had already been working on a rear system for the past several months and that it was almost ready to go public with it after a few more tests. As he rattled off the features he was building into it, I was stunned. I just didnt think it'd be possible to fit all that into an A body.
Option 6: GTS Dominator Series 4 link with Watts link
Pros:
Adjustable links, links feature different height and angle options allowing a user to fine tune the links to the driver and track
Adjustable ride height
High travel, dual adjustable coil over shocks.
Links mount inboard of frame and allows for much wider tires than stock
Watts link is centered in the rear of the axle, just behind it and features 8 inches of adjustable roll center adjustment
Watts links are also tunable.
Very cost effective, cheapest of the adjustable 4 links with sway bars thus far., 3rd overall in price behind Option 1 and 2.
Sway bar included
Watts link allows the rear to move up and down straight, meaning less clearance needed for the tires, allows just that much more tire or to use spacers to help tune track width.
Cons:
Very hard to come up with any here
So much adjustment, I'll probably get myself in trouble lol
Decision: Go, add to consider list. I may be biased after having his front kit, but this rear kit knocked my socks off.
The sheer amount of adjustment is amazing. This kit will allow me to fine tune my car not only to my liking, but to the track.
Final Thoughts:
This was a tough call between the Control Freak And the GTS. Both of these kits met all my requirements and then some.
Both had very few to no cons. Price being about the same, the GTS does have the most adjustability as well but this ultimately boiled down to having a matching setup plus the uniqueness and tunability of the GTS. So I went with the GTS Dominator Series
Now before I get into why I chose or decided against one kit or another, this is just my opinion, what works for me may not suit your needs or vise versa. This post is not design, meant or implied to sell or not sell a kit. I am merely stating my reasons upfront for my choice, I am not putting down any other kit or maker. I am listing the retail prices by each as well. But mainly because cost does play into every decision. What I will do, is attempt to thoroughly explain my choice, I will answer any questions to the best of my knowledge, however what I will not do, I repeat, what I'm not going to do is to debate one maker over the other, as what happened the last time I posted my front kit. If you wanna turn something into a mud slinging contest, go join Hillary's or Donald's campaign team. Also, I promise to have typos, it happens, especially with autocorrect haha. If you are good with that, continue reading, if not, dont bother reading on.
First I listed some requirements:
Had to be adjustable and suitable for road racing, drag racing, street
Had to be easily tunable with multiple tuning features
Be cost efficent, bang for buck
Use at minimum dual adjusting shocks
Allow for the maximum width tires possible without backing halving
Ajustable ride height
Allow for corner balancing the car
Allow me to keep my rear seat
So lets look at my options:
Mopar SS springs, sway bar and Dual adjusting shocks.
RMS Street Lynx
QA1 6 Link
Magnum Force Pro Link
Control Freak 4 Link (parallel with pan hard)
Custom
Option 1: Mopar SS Springs, rear sway kit and dual adjusting shocks(vikings, qa1?)
Pros:
Tried and true long time upgrade for Mopars
Cheapest option
Easiest to install
Cons:
No adjustability other than the shocks
Only 2 spring rate options
Requires a spring relocation kit to fit wider tires
No ride height adjustment
Cannot corner balance
Cost: 920 with shocks, sway and springs( not counting relocation kit)
Decision: No go, must have more adjustment
Option 2: RMS Street Lynx
Pros:
Popular upgrade.
Some tuning features
Dual adjusting Coil Overs
Cons:
Trianugluated 4 Link means limited adjustability.
No Sway Bar
Requires spring relocation kit to get wider tires
Cost: 1995
Decison: No Go, while it has some adjustability, very limited with a triangulated 4 link.
Option 3: QA1 6 link
Pros:
Adjustable Coil overs(3 options)
Bolt in
Adjustable rid height(1 in +/-)
Sway bar
Cons:
Bind central, just dont see how this works to improve handling let alone without binding
Expensive, most expensive of any kits
Heaviest option, the added parts to make this a 6 link add weight.
No need for 2 rear ward links
Keeps the roll center in the high, non adjustable position
Uses stock locations to bolt in, not compatible with inboard relaction kits meaning wider tires arent possible.
Cost: 2995.00(Single adjustable coilovers); 3195 (dual adjusting); 3895 (4 way adjustable)
Decision: No go, too expensive and just offers no real advantages in performance or tuning over a 4 link.
Option 4: Magnum Force Pro-Link
Pros:
Adjustable in alot of areas but roll center and ride height are not
Choice of panhard bar or watts link.
Mounts inboard of frame to allow much wilder tires
Cons:
Location of watts link puts the roll center high above the rear axle, chosing the panhard would help this but panhard isnt adjustable
Roll center is high and non adjustable.
Doesnt come powder coated but they will for an extra 500 bucks
2nd most expensive kit
Magnum force's reputation
No Sway bar option
Cost: 2574 bare with dual adjusting coil over shocks, 3069 powdercoated with same coil overs
Decision: No Go, high roll center would actually work against my front suspension, creating an unpredictable roll in high speed corners
Option 5: Control Freak Rear suspension Parallel 4 Link with Panhard bar
Pros:
Adjustable with pan hard(though limited on the panhard)
Dual Adjustable coil overs standard.
Parallel 4 link allows for road racing, drag racing and street driving.
Adjustable ride height
Sway bar option(329+)
Allows wider tires
Complete, powder coated ready to go kit
Cons:
Very hard to think of any here, so I had to split hairs.
While the panhard bar is adjustable, I'd prefer slots to get a finer tune on the panhard bar but I'm splitting hairs so i wont count this in my decision.
The pan hard bar allows the rear to move slightly along a curve bias, therefore, while wider tires are allowed, still need to run some clearance to ensure they dont rub the frame or quarters.
Cost: 1899 without sway bar, 2228 with sway bar
Decision: Go, adding to the consider list. With only one negative I can find with it, definity fits the bill for what I need.
For option 6, Originally I started out to design and build my own. While I can fab and weld and have the tools to do so, my skills aren't up to the level I trust enough with my life or the lives of those with me. Since I lack fabrication skills to this level, I decided to give Carl Gerst a call, give him my requirements and see if he could come up with something that would work. When I called, I spoke with him for over an hour, came to learn that he had already been working on a rear system for the past several months and that it was almost ready to go public with it after a few more tests. As he rattled off the features he was building into it, I was stunned. I just didnt think it'd be possible to fit all that into an A body.
Option 6: GTS Dominator Series 4 link with Watts link
Pros:
Adjustable links, links feature different height and angle options allowing a user to fine tune the links to the driver and track
Adjustable ride height
High travel, dual adjustable coil over shocks.
Links mount inboard of frame and allows for much wider tires than stock
Watts link is centered in the rear of the axle, just behind it and features 8 inches of adjustable roll center adjustment
Watts links are also tunable.
Very cost effective, cheapest of the adjustable 4 links with sway bars thus far., 3rd overall in price behind Option 1 and 2.
Sway bar included
Watts link allows the rear to move up and down straight, meaning less clearance needed for the tires, allows just that much more tire or to use spacers to help tune track width.
Cons:
Very hard to come up with any here
So much adjustment, I'll probably get myself in trouble lol
Decision: Go, add to consider list. I may be biased after having his front kit, but this rear kit knocked my socks off.
The sheer amount of adjustment is amazing. This kit will allow me to fine tune my car not only to my liking, but to the track.
Final Thoughts:
This was a tough call between the Control Freak And the GTS. Both of these kits met all my requirements and then some.
Both had very few to no cons. Price being about the same, the GTS does have the most adjustability as well but this ultimately boiled down to having a matching setup plus the uniqueness and tunability of the GTS. So I went with the GTS Dominator Series
Lookin Real good Chris !! Looks like you've put a lot of thought and planning into the cars purpose !!
Easily to do while one is saving and scrounging for money to do it....lol
Well looks like another delay from the machine shop on getting my 440 back and complete........ such is life I suppose
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 265
That sucks!
yeah, not really their fault. Machine just broke, part is back ordered
Ol'forest
Well-Known Member
Late I know, but what are those buckets out of? They look familiar.... Will you be able to get them low enough?Fitting in the new(used) buckets....
They are out of an 01 eclipse. They actually are 2 inches shorter than a factory bench seats. So I may raise them an inch.
so the 440 is back from the machine shop, but there may be some issues with it, so much for that happy day.
I swear I'm cursed with this 440.
I took my 2 kids with me this morning to get it (wife got called into work), so when I was there, I didn't check the block very well, and the guys at the machine shop loaded everything for me. I should have checked it, the block, while it had obviously been tanked but probably not well or long enough, when I got it home, the water jackets are full of crap, out side of the block, there's baked on grease all over, especially around the distributor hole and the bolt holes are all rusty, well light flash type rust. This isn't as much concerning as the cam bearings, I'm no professional but the holes are only lined up on 2 of the bearings, the other, 90% of the hole is blocked and the other is about 75% block. The very front cam bearing is by far the worst, that hole is dang near fully blocked by the bearings. I've waited 18 months for this block to get back to me, had them jack prices up on me and now some potential issues. I'll get pics posted later, right now i'm so mad i could throw the block across the yard.
I swear I'm cursed with this 440.
I took my 2 kids with me this morning to get it (wife got called into work), so when I was there, I didn't check the block very well, and the guys at the machine shop loaded everything for me. I should have checked it, the block, while it had obviously been tanked but probably not well or long enough, when I got it home, the water jackets are full of crap, out side of the block, there's baked on grease all over, especially around the distributor hole and the bolt holes are all rusty, well light flash type rust. This isn't as much concerning as the cam bearings, I'm no professional but the holes are only lined up on 2 of the bearings, the other, 90% of the hole is blocked and the other is about 75% block. The very front cam bearing is by far the worst, that hole is dang near fully blocked by the bearings. I've waited 18 months for this block to get back to me, had them jack prices up on me and now some potential issues. I'll get pics posted later, right now i'm so mad i could throw the block across the yard.
Last edited:
The oiling holes are blocked?
Yup not good on a 440 at all.
The so called professional machine job. In the pics, which are best I can get, you'll see partially and fully blocked oil passages in the cam bearings. As well as very rough and gouged cam bearngs (is this normal for brand new professionally installed bearings?) You'll see gouges and even RUST in the cylinder bores. The block was supposed to be honed or bored if the bores needed it. These bores were not rusty at all when it went to the shop 18 months ago. I ordered the .030 pistons as instructed by the shop but it looks like it's gonna have to be bored to at least .040. There's also 2 deep scratches in one bore that you catch a finger on, not sure they show up well in the pics. Also, the block looks pressure washed and not hot tanked.
....
Damn Chris, that's just sad. my slanty looked better than that workin with a pressure washer and hand tools in the driveway.
More
What a clean block should look like
Not mine
Looks even worse in real life
Wow. Did they actually do anything at all to the block?
Are you even sure it's the block you turned in?
Are you even sure it's the block you turned in?
Chris I would get the BBB involved at least.
BBB? Big Bad Boys?
Better business buero
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