*Realistic expectations..C-mon jump in!

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Woodie

Woodie

Take-off EH!
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Ok, I have decided it is time for me to ask for some opinions. I recently purchased my fist Mopar. The 340 has a lifter knock, I will be replacing the entire valve train in the next few weeks. There are a lot choices out there and I have spent many hours pouring through the "Search" function on the site. Here is my combo,.30 over 340 stock crank and 10.25:1 cr XHeads with stainless valves and 1970 Hipo manifolds 2.50" TTi exhaust (H pipe) The car wieghs 4200bs and has stock ralley wheels with 26" tall tires. Rear end ratio is unconfirmed @ 3.23:1 possi 8.75 carrier. The 904 does'nt seem to have any stall, I will be pulling the engine this week, so a stall convertor is planed. I am looking to do a "Roller" set up, Lifters,Camshaft and Rockers. I would like to retain the manifolds and gears, what's a good grind for a roller cam? I like a weekend warrior type approch, push the limt of street use and the odd track day. The car will be used twice a week in the summer months.

Thanks.
Woodie

P.s It is a 1972 Scamp. Thx Demon seed!
 
What car is this going into? For a weekend warrior type and little track time you should consider 3.91 gears or the weight of that car will kill the engines bottom end. IMO
 
Go with a retrofit roller cam. Comp is a good brand.Lunati is good as well.
 
How much "Stall",...as this should determine how much grind you want/ have on your cam,....Summit also has a tech line that may help you determine this,....yea, I know they're chivy people, but they're tech help ain't bad
 
I was planig on choosing the stall based on cam choice. I am hoping some one has gone to a roller set up using the manifolds. Anybody gone with the "Thumper or Mutha Thumper" roller? 107 deg LSA? Just over .500 lift @050?
 
how does a 1972 scamp weigh in at 4200 pound wow ! scamps are usally around 3200 lbs. i like the 3.91 gear, retro roller also sounds good. low maintenance with good power potential with stock manifolds.
 
Woodie said:
I was planig on choosing the stall based on cam choice. I am hoping some one has gone to a roller set up using the manifolds. Anybody gone with the "Thumper or Mutha Thumper" roller? 107 deg LSA? Just over .500 lift @050?
Click to expand...

my buddy Brian has the basic set up stock manifold 340 retro roller 71 dart 904 trans, and runs 13.8s don't now what cam but its a crane and it idles smooth and dont know the converter but he is a cheep *** so im sure its stock. with 391 sure grip.
 
A stall based on the cam specs is a good start. Purchase the converter last once you know of everything else. Starting with a look at a converters site and getting a look at the information they require for a good converter to be built to match everything up well.

Is there a mileage requirement for this project?

The mutha thumper cam is large - ish for the street and would need a decent gear ratio in order to perform at it's best. 3.23's are a bit low IMO. I would limit the cam spec to a 220 intake duration with such a gear ratio.
 
the wall said:
how does a 1972 scamp weigh in at 4200 pound wow ! scamps are usally around 3200 lbs. i like the 3.91 gear, retro roller also sounds good. low maintenance with good power potential with stock manifolds.
Click to expand...

Must be a typo. All the A bodies are 32-3400 lb's ...
 
Runblefish... Thanks for the imput, here is the camshaft I am thinking about. Lift is is @050, Crane Cams "Roller" pn#699611 276/284 Dur .488/.509 Lft. I like the duration on the exhaust side @ 284. This with 10.25cr might be ok until I decide to swap the gears in favor of a 3.92:1 or better. What puzzles me is the efficientcy of the Hipo maniflods.... Also I will take a picture of the door tag, pretty sure it was 4200lbs. I was shocked!
 
Woodie said:
Runblefish... Thanks for the imput, here is the camshaft I am thinking about. Lift is is @050, Crane Cams "Roller" pn#699611 276/284 Dur .488/.509 Lft. I like the duration on the exhaust side @ 284. This with 10.25cr might be ok until I decide to swap the gears in favor of a 3.92:1 or better. What puzzles me is the efficientcy of the Hipo maniflods.... Also I will take a picture of the door tag, pretty sure it was 4200lbs. I was shocked!
Click to expand...
I think the door tag generally means fully loaded (like 4 fatties and 200 pounds of crap in the trunk lol). Try to find yourself a truck scale and take a trip over it...
 
I agree with 95TT on the door sticker.

Here is the cam card link everybody; http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=24311
That cam will work well with the 3.23's. Though I'm not crazy about exhaust manifolds since there not going to let the engine breath so well. I myself would use headers with this cam or more exhaust duration. 3.91's will have you take of like a rocket, but, really limit your top end/Hwy. cruise abilty.
 
take out the spare tire ,the jack ,the case of beer, any dead bodies, spare parts etc. and your scamp will weigh in about 3140 pounds. give or take 20. i think.
 
I would use a hydraulic on anything but super high end big bucks motor. Those cams and lifters are big bucks. Lots of guys raving about the voodoo has lift of around .488 and .514 and sounds really mean. Then you'll have some money for 3.55 gears and a nice converter. I would also use headers on anything that isn't # matching myself.
 
72 scamp weighs in at 2807.79 pounds. i was wrong the first time. or maybe mistaken or something like that. i was only out by three hundred pounds or so.
 
Woodie said:
Ok, I have decided it is time for me to ask for some opinions. I recently purchased my fist Mopar. The 340 has a lifter knock, I will be replacing the entire valve train in the next few weeks. There are a lot choices out there and I have spent many hours pouring through the "Search" function on the site. Here is my combo,.30 over 340 stock crank and 10.25:1 cr XHeads with stainless valves and 1970 Hipo manifolds 2.50" TTi exhaust (H pipe) The car wieghs 4200bs and has stock ralley wheels with 26" tall tires. Rear end ratio is unconfirmed @ 3.23:1 possi 8.75 carrier. The 904 does'nt seem to have any stall, I will be pulling the engine this week, so a stall convertor is planed. I am looking to do a "Roller" set up, Lifters,Camshaft and Rockers. I would like to retain the manifolds and gears, what's a good grind for a roller cam? I like a weekend warrior type approch, push the limt of street use and the odd track day. The car will be used twice a week in the summer months.

Thanks.
Woodie
Click to expand...

The 340 in its stock displacement config is VERY easy to overcam, especially with an auto behind it. Like Rumblefish says, don't go over 220-225 @ .050" keep an eye on the LSA-with manifolds-overlap will be a factor. I also wouldn't bother with a ROLLER to tell you the truth. Why? Well, because IMO, a roller should be used when you are after as much valve lift with a tight seat duration, All X, J, '596, production non ported castings experience a "stall" in airflow at about the .430-.450" height. I personally would just grab a real good Hydraulic flat grind like the Lunati VooDoo 60402 and try it. Save the hydro-roller for a more serious build effort and then make it a custom--they are well worth it.

This is as honest as I can be. Hope this doesn't add confusion--Seriously a roller setup would be a waste at this level IMO. Unless you just have to have one--save your money for heads, maybe a stroker bottom end, etc.....

J.Rob
 
Realistic expectations....ok, I'll get to that in a second..... if you want to keep the gears, I guess I would lean toward this cam : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-20-811-9/
I like the Xtreme Energy lobes...couple that with a 10" converter and you should be good to go.

The "realistic" part...when all is said and done, you will have probably spent at least $2,500 for the roller cam, lifters, springs, retainers, locks, head work to accommodate the large springs, rockers, converter........all this with stock exhaust manifolds and stock heads will have your engine breathing and exhaling through a straw. This will probably have you running 13's if everything works out well. If 13's is your goal, there are MUCH more efficient ways to get there (like spending half that, or less). JMHO.
 
ok i understand why some of you disagree with a hydraulic roller with stock manifolds. i have no problem with the disagreement but like what was said before Realistic the OP ask about stock manifold so talking him into headers is legit. but answering his question is whats up. he didn't say that this was a poor mans build! he has a goal, he stated it. now to be realistic...were do you live, $2500 for roller in this engine that's not going to rev real hi because of stock manifolds... there's nothing tricky about this head configuration. also stock magnum engines run rollers from the factory and there's nothing tricky about the springs here. if stock exhaust is the total killer to performance(exhaust threw a straw) the chevys would be killing mopar(they don't) guys for years because small block mopar X J exhaust ports are bad compared to chevy small block. the real problems or gains are in the intake flow. you will gain plenty of power if you go with headers and a roller will have small gains in performance even with stock manifolds. and even bigger gains with headers. so if you have a money issue the roller is not for you. the retro roller will be about 400 to 450 my guess, more dollars over a flat tappet hydraulic cam. i don't care what your performance goals are, a roller will always be better(if you can afford it). the bigger gains are in the more powerful engine meaning the gain might not be worth the money if you struggling on a budget.header would probably make more power at this level.
 
My previous post (after re-reading it) was not real clear. What I meant was, I think a roller cam is out of place with the combo. The main bottle necks being the stock heads and exhaust manifolds. Stock heads don't flow for crap, same with the exhaust manifolds. If you take that same amount of money and spend it wiser, you would end up with a faster car...let me just add, this is from a racers point of view...I have a hard time looking at things from any other view point, so take it with a grain of salt.

I agree with Ramm that a roller seems like a waste of money at this level. If money is not an issue, by all means go roller. I have a solid roller in my car and will NEVER go back to flat tappets, but that is partially due to the wiped cam lobe I had a few years ago.

I hate to guess at these things, but since the OP said he wanted to keep the gears, manifolds, I'm guessing he doesn't really want an all out street strip machine, even though he stated
"I like a weekend warrior type approch, push the limt of street use and the odd track day", otherwise, we would be talking about different cylinder heads.

To the OP, do you have specific power/ET goal in mind, or just a fun quick car?
 
I have a full roller setup that costs about ~1300 (cam, lifters, rockers) so I'm not sure where the 2500 comes from (the most costly part in the roller setup is rockers. I have comp pro mags). My setup is a hyd though with the specs of @.50 231/239 .515"/.550" flowing through eddy 63cc (60779) heads. Ill be using headers but for the break in, I'd use the manifolds. This cam comes in from 2400-6200 rpm and requires a 2500 stall and 3.42 gears or better and I'm using a GM 200R4 for the o/d feature.
 
This is where I got my guesstimate of $2500:


Cam = 330
Lifters = 435
Springs = 150
Retainers = 60
Locks = 40
Push rods = 200
Gaskets = 30
Timing set = 70
Rockers = 500 (or more)
Converter = 500 (more or less depending on size, brand, etc)

Machine work on heads (if needed) to accommodate springs ??? 150 ish???

The sum of these parts is $2465...so about $2500, give or take a little...I might be forgetting something, but this should get you close.
 
flyfish said:
This is where I got my guesstimate of $2500:


Cam = 330
Lifters = 435
Springs = 150
Retainers = 60
Locks = 40
Push rods = 200
Gaskets = 30
Timing set = 70
Rockers = 500 (or more)
Converter = 500 (more or less depending on size, brand, etc)

Machine work on heads (if needed) to accommodate springs ??? 150 ish???

The sum of these parts is $2465...so about $2500, give or take a little...I might be forgetting something, but this should get you close.
Click to expand...

The radial files or end mills needed to open up the push rod tunnels for that crazy valvetrain geometry.
 
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