dilweed
Well-Known Member
Please note: This is speaking of my experiences only.
Well .I've tried to be cool about my thoughts/communications and frustration with Rocket Restorations (located in Olympia, WA) since I picked up my car in February 2011, but I'm now at the point where Ive gotten nowhere and I would like to share my dealings, as well as voice my experience with them to better inform people that may be thinking about using them for their restoration project(s). I was enthusiastic to work with them after seeing their work published. Boy was I in for a surprise.
They received the car June 2010. I had already stripped the car down to nothing. They would replace the passenger side quarter panel, prior to filler, prime and painting the whole car. There was an understanding this car was NOT a race car, but a nice, clean street car. All went pretty well in the beginning. Even added some work; like completing mini tubs with spring relocation kit (along with moving everything rearward 1 for tire clearance), install a new headliner, new brake lines, hood pins and install front and back glass. After some progress was made and underway with some of the filler/body work, I was able to go see the car. Things looked pretty good, and they still had a ways to go on the prep work. Even the spring relocation install, as installed when I saw it, appeared to be alright.
First Hiccup.
After only seeing the car during prep, I got an email with pictures stating car is painted. Totally fine, and exciting, however, I was not given the chance to see the car prior to paint. I didnt know it was being painted. I wouldve been fine with not seeing the car prior to paint, if everything turned out okay. When I finally got to see the car, I was in love with the color, but noticed the body lines running down the sides of the car were quite un-straight. Meaning the lines were either not straight within the samebody panel, nor a continuous line from body panel to body panel. There was even one line where it was admitted by (Mike) the owner of the shop that he missed it. It was bad enough it was decided that side of the car would be repainted. It was one of those instances where it wouldve bothered me forever if we left it. We decided to prep and re-paint. Partially on my nickel (which I agreed too, in case I was being too demanding). Overall, I was not looking for show-car quality, but I am not satisfied with the final prep/body lines of the car, even for a nice street car. I believe that no matter how much $ for a build the lines should run straight.
Second Hiccup.
I saw the relocation kit install during one of my shop visits, and even have photos of the installation at the time I was there. All looked fine. See photo 1 and 2. To my fault, I did not re-review the relocation install when I picked up the car. To my surprise, after I got the car home, the rear shackle hangers were not mounted the same as they were when Isaw the car in the shop previously. Upon further review of the framerails, I could see it actually took them THREE tries to get the rear hangers in the correct location. They abandoned attempt number one by leaving the tubes (that hold the shackles) within the frame rails by cutting off the ends, welding the holes closed, and ground down flush with the frame (which actually cracked later). See photo 1. The second attempt they got in the correct location, which is what I saw visitingt he car in their shop. After some time, they decided they didnt like the angle the rear hangers were sitting, and decided in order to flatten (more horizontal) the angle at the rear hanger, their final fix (attempt number three) was to actually cut out (notch) sections of the frame rails in an effort to level out the tubes that hold the shackles. They took two pieces of flat bar and sandwiched the weld tube and welded that within the notches in the frame. See photos 3-8. Not safe, and ugly as could be. To add insult to injury, because the kit was moved back 1, the stock rear hanger location (or boxes for lack of better term) needed to be modified to account for the rearward swing of the rear shackles. Instead of cutting a neat/clean opening for clearance (like what I saw and have pictures of from my visit), they simply hacked them roughly in half. They just cut them apart. Nothing was straight, or even from one side to the other. It was surprising to say the least. I couldnt believe any of this was thought to be okay to a customers car. See photos 3-9. As for the front mounting boxes, its off a bit on the drivers side. I may have to adjust by welding in some plates/washers to move the springs for more parallel to the frame.
Third Hiccup.
After having the car home and getting things reassembled, a few other things became apparent. They cut too much off the new fiberglass deck lid. So much that the trim that installs over the face of the lid over-hangs by ¼. See photo 10. They cut the opening and pulled the wire through the new headliner for the dome light in the wrong spot. The windshield and back glass they installed both leak VERY badly. They scratched the **** out of the paint installing the trim around said leaking windows. I understand scratches can happen, but use tape for crying out loud. Some of the scratches and chips go down to bare metal. See photo 11. If I did not pull the trim to reseal the glass I wouldve never seen the exposed metal. It was already surface rusted from a single washing. They also didnt seal the gasket to the glass on the front or back glass which is probably okay in some applications. The kicker is whatever they used to seal the gasket to the body, looks like butyl tape which is fine, in some areas don't even come into contact with both the gasket and the body. Ive got photos of this too if anyone is interested. They also didnt install the trim clips for the trim around the front and back glass in the correct locations. They actually made NEW holes instead of installing the clips in the existing locations (which are at the correct height). WTF. See photos 12 and 13. The photos show their typical install right next to the existing holes. They created more work for themselves.....and me having to pull everything apart to install back in the correct holes. With their installation, they installed the clips higher on the body, and you can see daylight between the trim and gasket surface. Lots of daylight. See photo 14 - 16. Much adjustment was needed with the trim as the corners where the chrome comes together was actually sitting ON top of the body, and not over/in the channel where the trim is to install. Ive pics of this too. They did not final prep the face of the decklid before they painted it. I can only assume they thought the deck trim covers the whole vertical surface, which it doesnt, so you can visibly see the scuff marks on the face of the deck lid. In addition to these gripes, they also got overspray on my leaf springs, subframe connectors, all over the rear-end, etc. Hell, they even left residue brake fluid on the inner fender well after filling. I really think the only thing I am satisfied with are the hood pins.
I wont say that Im not partially to blame for any of my gripes. I shouldve given the car a 110% review prior to my taking it home, although some work appeared fine in the shop (like the rear spring hangers when I saw them),and some I wouldnt have been able to tell until rain/wash (glass leaks) or reassembly (dome light and deck lid trim). They had the car for nine months to complete their work. I was growing anxious and picked it up prior to their final buff. In hindsight, Im glad that I grabbed the car so I could fix things correctly, and honestly, with better attention to detail.
As it sits right now, Ive been trying to close the loop, and get the remnant paint for the car, or at least the paint code to match. There are items that need touch-up, like around the window trim, but also things that I may fix like re-prepping and painting the deck lid. Because they are mad over a relatively small outstanding balance (less than $1k), theyve advised they are unwilling to help with paint or code. What's puzzling is I cannot even get the opportunity to talk with them and put closure to an outstanding balance. So as of yesterday afternoon, I am paying for matching, and buying more paint, that I theoretically couldve purchased twice already since I partially paid for repainting the side of the car ..
The outstanding balance is less than the time it took me to repair their rear framerail work, especially at THEIR billable rate. Plus, should I place a price tag on my fixing the leaking front and back glass (including gaskets?), reinstalling trim clips, having to live with too much shaved off the deck lid, hole in the headliner cut in the wrong spot, touching up at the window trim, my overspray cleaning, etc.? Confusing.
IVE reached out via phone and email to both Tom and Mike in order to put closure to this, and also try and get my paint. Ive been asking to meet with them since March OF LAST YEAR (2011). I even offered to bring them coffee (read my correspondence below). This has gotten nowhere. Yet Im the bad guy, and theyre mad at me. This all may sound like a gripe because I havent been able to get my paint. I'd be lying if I said this paint issue didn't piss me off, but I need to advise our Mopar community that care about quality work on their cars.
Let me know if I'm the one being as asshole. Id like to hear your feedback. Here is my WORD-FOR-WORD email correspondence with them:
03/05/11
Since I am hot and mad, I figure I'll go ahead and shoot you two an email.
I see the issue with the rear shackles. Wow. That was the fix you mention for it not being installed at the correct angle? First, I don't even know if that will hold. Second, you even butchered the factory mounting points (I'm not sure exactly why), and you knew that I wanted to have the option to run the factory spring locations. This is going to make ME fixing this more difficult. I will not have the factory mounts as a reference (nor be able to use them) which is what I'm assuming would've made it easier to get the shackles horizontal in the first place. By the way I believe neither of them are installed straight.
I'm afraid to check the front hanger to see if that's off.
Let me know how I should fix this. And at this time I'm not planning for it to go back to your shop.
I WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO MIKE ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE CONVERSATION DIDN'T GO WELL. I LET HIM KNOW THAT I WAS GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO WITH THE CAR, MEANING HOW I WAS GOING TO FIX IT, AND HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE ME, AND I WOULD TOUCH BASE WITH THEM IN A WEEK.
03/07/11
Hi Tom,
Mike let me know about the wheels. I figure I'll grab them when I grab paint.
I mentioned to Mike that I didn't see the rear spring hangers in the box of hanger parts. He was going to do some checking around to see if they were still there somewhere.
I meant to talk to Mike about final monies when I spoke to him earlier. I apologize for that. I have not sent anything out yet. Initially I was planning to schedule a time during this week to come down and grab paint, give handshakes and give you money. Right now, I would like to further review the suspension (per the discussion Mike and I had this morning) before I pay anything. I know this is not what you want to hear,but I need to make sure everything is safe/clean/acceptable. This means I will be doing work on the car in order to make the rear shackle mounting locations safe and clean, and to represent what it was and should've been. I will even be cleaning up the grind job of the factory rear hanger location/box. I was looking through some pics I snapped from earlier in the build. I've attached one (2852) of them here. This was what I had in mind, even though it looks like (assuming) Tyler missed on his first try (and yes, on both framerails from my pictures) by looking at the holes welded closed/new grind marks/heat marks.... This means what I have now is his third try....? Photos 1 and 2, not what I had in mind. We can talk further about this if this is an issue, but I trust this will be okay withyou for the time being.
NEVERGOT A RESPONSE FROM ROCKET ON THIS EMAIL.
03/14/11
Gents,
Hereis an update on what I've had the chance to work on.
I've taken the chance to measure the front spring boxes, the rear hanger location,as well as measure the factory dimensions (for comparison) from another Dart.
I na nut shell:
Front
-it looks like the front boxes are within 1/8" - 3/16" square to the car, or relative to each other.
-the passenger side spring box sits 1/8" further inboard than the drivers side.
-taken together I assume this looks like it should be alright.
Rear
-it appears the weld tube is set approx. 3/4" forward (overall dimn) than that of factory. I still need to review this, as I believe the bottom of the shackle needs to be directly below or slightly behind the spring pivot hole in the frame.
-it appears the weld tube is set approx. 1" lower in the frame rail than that of factory ~ would still halfway follow the install instructions, unfortunately that puts the tube just a bit below the face of the frame rail, leaving me a notch.
-the weld tube on the passenger side was left in the frame rail, from one of the first attempts ~ may prove a pain as it might be in the way of where the weld tube is going to go. I cannot see into the driver's side to see if that one is there too, but I can assume it is.
-I will need to reset the pinion angle (grind and new perches, or do the math to see if shims are acceptable).
At this point from measuring my car and the other, I've got a little over three hours into this. I've got someone doing me a (hopefully for free) favor of building a couple 1/8" plate boxes that can overlay/wrap the frame rails where they've been cut. I'm planning to spend Saturday cutting out the current weld tubes, and getting the new boxes in place. Pending how much inboard spring angle I have, I will either install the off-set shackles to the rear, or I will work to slide the weld tube inboard as much as possible to accommodate.
You're as up to speed as I am.
03/24/11
Gents,
Sorry for the delay. I've had an email drafted to you for the last couple days, but I've been trying to figure out the most productive and polite way of laying it all out there to you. At the risk of further irritation to you, or repetitive feedback, I'm providing my long-winded thought process so you can understand where I'm coming from. As always, I will communicate openly. I hope you'll appreciate that. In the end, I want to be satisfied with the car and in my experience working with you, while at the same time, I also want what is fair for you guys. It's probably too late, but I do want you to be happy with me as a customer ~ even with the frustrations I've voiced over the last couple months. I still intend to do future business with yo uwell after this car is back on the road.
My decision to have your shop complete the body work and paint on my car was for a couple reasons. I felt you could provide a better product than I could, and you could get it to final paint faster than me. In addition to this, there was an expected level of detail I figured would be inherent in taking to you. From the beginning, this project was not to be show car quality. We all know that. But what I'm feeling is that because it wasn't a $50k+ build, the project wasn't as smooth/tidy as I thought it would be. Perhaps that is a misconception on my part, but that's how I feel.
I'm still a little sour over the body lines overall with the car. In the end, I still agree we should've discussed more of the expectations, but my gut still tells me that straight lines down the side of a car should hold true for a $50k job, or a $10k job. After all, they are the lines of the car. I'll be honest that I am bugged over the balance being charged for repainting the left side of the car. Mostly becauseof what I just mentioned above, but also because the reason to repaint was substantially caused by redoing the lines where the door meets the fender. I'm not disputing paying money towards repainting the left side of the car. You provided me an estimate for doing that work which I agreed to, and your pricing landed within the range. After having the car home for a couple weeks, and getting the chance to roll the car into the sun, I will most likely repaint the car in the future, paying particular attention to the lines running down the middle of the car.
As for the smaller, detail-type things (which I've already mentioned to you) that still need to be addressed, cleaned-up, etc. I am sure I'll eventually get over them, but right now they're fresh in my mind so they are bugging me. There is overspray on the rear-end, the leafsprings, subframe connectors, etc. There is bare metal on the rear-end housing where the new perches are installed. Looking under the hood this last weekend, there was a puddle of brake fluid on the fender-well. Glad we used DOT5. As mentioned in a previous email, I understand I provided OE and non-OE clips for the front and back glass trim. I am a little concerned there are missing clips along the trim, notably the bottom left corner of the back window as the trim pulls away from the car and doesn't sit snug. Enough that I was able to move the trim to better align what was installed. I understand the trim install will scratch the paint, but seeing how many chips/scratches, and how deep, I would ask if any tape was used to better protect the paint. Also to hear that someone's first suspension relocation installation was my car is disheartening. Especially since this frame rail issue is what started my attack on quality. The fix for the rear shackle mounts, how the stock hanger boxes were cut, and how many tries he had at getting the weld tubes in the right place is not what I expected from a shop. The frame rails are a huge deal to me and others that have seen the car.
I am more than comfortable getting these smaller things mentioned above cleaned-up and done. I am not comfortable completing the final cut and buff. I simply don't know how much clear was laid down, or how much was sanded down. The right side of the car still needs to be buffed. The rear quarter sand marks are too visible. There are still some large clear runs (down the front of the door, back of fender, and even a drip protruding past the front edge of the door) on the right side. Should be easy to sand out. You did tell me you were not completely finished with the cut/buff, and that could be completed in the future. I'll also keep an eye on the window trim to see how much (if any) it moves.
To pull this all together, I felt I could have the work done by a shop, and feel it a great benefit to my car and my sanity of not having to complete the work myself. It would come home, and be ready to put back together. Right now, I feel a little frustrated there is further work to do. I'm in this position of feeling like a giant asshole nagging you (which I don't feel that I'm completely out-of-line), planning for my grinder and welder to replace frame/suspension work, but the part that gets me most is I've paid $________, over nine months, for a car that I need to perform fabrication and clean-up, and I'm thinking about sanding the sides of. Plus I've got a balance for a repaint that started this whole whirlwind.
I did not get the chance to start working on the rear frame rails this last weekend. I'm estimating that I will spend about 24 hours on the frame rails, the stock hanger boxes, the measuring that I've already completed, cleaning the overspray areas, etc. Please know I plan to apply this to my outstanding balance. I'm also considering deducting a portion of the $___ (paid for the installation of the relocation kit), as I don't think it's fair to pay completely for work that I will cut out and replace.
Please let me know your thoughts or feedback on any of the above. As I said at the top, I want what is fair for you and me. If you think this is out of line, please communicate that to me. I want to continue to work with you in the future, and I want you to welcome me as a customer.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET. I CALLED THEM A WEEK LATER.
03/31/11
Tom-
Thank you for taking my call yesterday, and thanks for your feedback on my email from last week. I apologize my email caused such a stir. After talking with you, I can see there was misinterpretation on what was expressed. As mentioned on the phone, I was not intending to create frustration for you guys, but trying to really put everything out there. I'm glad we were able to talk.
I have cut a check for $______. I can bring it down tomorrow (Friday) during the work-day if you like (so you've got it before you head out of town, and I can grab wheels and paint if available, and it also gives me a chance for a few minutes of face time with you), or I can drop it in the mail.
If there is some reason I cannot bring the car back down to you in the future (once it is back on the road), please communicate that to me. I am planning for you guys to complete the cut and buff (as you mentioned before the car left), and touch-up along the window trim. I've even managed to create a couple chips getting the passenger qtr window in. Those things are a pain.
Thanks again, Tom.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 03/31/11
Hey ,Why dont you just throw it in the mail, things are pretty crazy around here getting ready for the show and Im going to be in and out. Have to get a Dart tomorrow and do not know when Ill be here.
04/01/11
HiTom,
Wanted to let you know the check is in the mail. It should get there before you leave.
Lets touch base when you guys are back in town. I'd like to come down and talk with you guys to clear the air. If you can spare 15-30 mins, I'll bring coffee and I can better explain what my email was trying to convey.
Also wanted to ask about your upcoming road trip... I see you are bringing things down for people, but are you also planning to bring anything up? Meaning if there are a couple small items that people need, can they ask you to keep your eyes peeled? Stuff like '67 ~ license plate light lens,interior trim that runs around the perimeter of the back window, reverse light lenses, etc.
Safe travels,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
05/02/11
Hey Tom,
Hope you guys had a fun trip.
Wanted to see if it was possible to meet with you guys maybe sometime next week.
Let me know when you get a chance.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
06/14/11 ~after a couple check-in emails~
Tom,
Let me know if this is getting annoying, or if I should stop trying to get in touch. I will try and call you by the end of the week if I don't hear from you guys.
If you guys are planning to just consider things done and not discuss, I would still like to grab my wheels and left over paint (and formula).
Let me know.
Thanks.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 06/23/11
Hey , Sorry for not getting back to you. Mike is still angry about the bill not getting paid in fill and does not want to give the paint back until the bill is paid or at least a mutual agreement can be made. Getting the wheels back to you is not a problem. Let me know what you are thinking.
06/24/11
Hi Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me, I really appreciate it. I hope you guys understand that I've been wanting to talk with you, hence the reason for my emails and phone calls, as well as me asking to meet at the end of May to talk. As I said back in March, I wanted to know your thoughts on what I had to say, that I wanted what was/is fair for all of us, and that if I was out of line to please communicate that to me as I want to continue to work with you, and I want Rocket to want to work on my car again in the future. And as of today, I still want that.
In an effort to help move forward, I'm honestly not sure your appropriate method put closure to the bill or come to a mutual agreement. Trying to explain my thoughts/opinions seemed to set everyone off, so I'm not sure how you guys would like to discuss this. Perhaps email isn't the most effective way? I am happy to explain what I am thinking via email, but I would ask that you PLEASE call me should there be any frustration read from anything I have to say.
Let me know if you'd like me to email or call you.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
04/09/12
Guys,
I sent you (Tom) an email back on June 24 of last year and didnt hear back. I didnt follow-up after since last I spoke with Tom, I was told Mike was still pretty mad. I figured that after all this time without a response, you guys were/are uninterested in discussing further. Its unfortunate if thats the case, but not much that can be done about it now.
The reason for this email is to ask again if I can have the remnant paint, if you still have it, or I would appreciate the paint code used. There are a couple areas that youd understand why Im asking forthe paint.
Please let me know either way so I know if Ill need to get it matched.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 04/11/11
Hey ,
We still have anoutstanding bill $___ and until we can at least come to an understanding onthat we are not willing to help on this.
Just an FYI but we are heading on the road for two weeks, going to the Vegas and LA Mopar shows so if I do not get back to you right away that is why.
For some reason the amount stated in their email went up .
04/30/12
Hey Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me. Wanted to wait until you got back before I sent you an email.
As for our discussion, is it best to talk over the phone, or would you like to me start discussion via email?
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/13/12
I left a voicemail at their shop. Theyre recorded message says theyll be back 08/17/12 as theyre at the Mopar Nationals in Ohio.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/22/12
I emailed you guys back on April 30th (hoping you were back from Vegas and LA), and left a vm with you last week (on the 08/13) while you were back at the Mopar Nats.
Wanted to let you guys know I am going to start the process of getting the paint matched for the car this week.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/28/12
I left another voicemail at their shop.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
Well .I've tried to be cool about my thoughts/communications and frustration with Rocket Restorations (located in Olympia, WA) since I picked up my car in February 2011, but I'm now at the point where Ive gotten nowhere and I would like to share my dealings, as well as voice my experience with them to better inform people that may be thinking about using them for their restoration project(s). I was enthusiastic to work with them after seeing their work published. Boy was I in for a surprise.
They received the car June 2010. I had already stripped the car down to nothing. They would replace the passenger side quarter panel, prior to filler, prime and painting the whole car. There was an understanding this car was NOT a race car, but a nice, clean street car. All went pretty well in the beginning. Even added some work; like completing mini tubs with spring relocation kit (along with moving everything rearward 1 for tire clearance), install a new headliner, new brake lines, hood pins and install front and back glass. After some progress was made and underway with some of the filler/body work, I was able to go see the car. Things looked pretty good, and they still had a ways to go on the prep work. Even the spring relocation install, as installed when I saw it, appeared to be alright.
First Hiccup.
After only seeing the car during prep, I got an email with pictures stating car is painted. Totally fine, and exciting, however, I was not given the chance to see the car prior to paint. I didnt know it was being painted. I wouldve been fine with not seeing the car prior to paint, if everything turned out okay. When I finally got to see the car, I was in love with the color, but noticed the body lines running down the sides of the car were quite un-straight. Meaning the lines were either not straight within the samebody panel, nor a continuous line from body panel to body panel. There was even one line where it was admitted by (Mike) the owner of the shop that he missed it. It was bad enough it was decided that side of the car would be repainted. It was one of those instances where it wouldve bothered me forever if we left it. We decided to prep and re-paint. Partially on my nickel (which I agreed too, in case I was being too demanding). Overall, I was not looking for show-car quality, but I am not satisfied with the final prep/body lines of the car, even for a nice street car. I believe that no matter how much $ for a build the lines should run straight.
Second Hiccup.
I saw the relocation kit install during one of my shop visits, and even have photos of the installation at the time I was there. All looked fine. See photo 1 and 2. To my fault, I did not re-review the relocation install when I picked up the car. To my surprise, after I got the car home, the rear shackle hangers were not mounted the same as they were when Isaw the car in the shop previously. Upon further review of the framerails, I could see it actually took them THREE tries to get the rear hangers in the correct location. They abandoned attempt number one by leaving the tubes (that hold the shackles) within the frame rails by cutting off the ends, welding the holes closed, and ground down flush with the frame (which actually cracked later). See photo 1. The second attempt they got in the correct location, which is what I saw visitingt he car in their shop. After some time, they decided they didnt like the angle the rear hangers were sitting, and decided in order to flatten (more horizontal) the angle at the rear hanger, their final fix (attempt number three) was to actually cut out (notch) sections of the frame rails in an effort to level out the tubes that hold the shackles. They took two pieces of flat bar and sandwiched the weld tube and welded that within the notches in the frame. See photos 3-8. Not safe, and ugly as could be. To add insult to injury, because the kit was moved back 1, the stock rear hanger location (or boxes for lack of better term) needed to be modified to account for the rearward swing of the rear shackles. Instead of cutting a neat/clean opening for clearance (like what I saw and have pictures of from my visit), they simply hacked them roughly in half. They just cut them apart. Nothing was straight, or even from one side to the other. It was surprising to say the least. I couldnt believe any of this was thought to be okay to a customers car. See photos 3-9. As for the front mounting boxes, its off a bit on the drivers side. I may have to adjust by welding in some plates/washers to move the springs for more parallel to the frame.
Third Hiccup.
After having the car home and getting things reassembled, a few other things became apparent. They cut too much off the new fiberglass deck lid. So much that the trim that installs over the face of the lid over-hangs by ¼. See photo 10. They cut the opening and pulled the wire through the new headliner for the dome light in the wrong spot. The windshield and back glass they installed both leak VERY badly. They scratched the **** out of the paint installing the trim around said leaking windows. I understand scratches can happen, but use tape for crying out loud. Some of the scratches and chips go down to bare metal. See photo 11. If I did not pull the trim to reseal the glass I wouldve never seen the exposed metal. It was already surface rusted from a single washing. They also didnt seal the gasket to the glass on the front or back glass which is probably okay in some applications. The kicker is whatever they used to seal the gasket to the body, looks like butyl tape which is fine, in some areas don't even come into contact with both the gasket and the body. Ive got photos of this too if anyone is interested. They also didnt install the trim clips for the trim around the front and back glass in the correct locations. They actually made NEW holes instead of installing the clips in the existing locations (which are at the correct height). WTF. See photos 12 and 13. The photos show their typical install right next to the existing holes. They created more work for themselves.....and me having to pull everything apart to install back in the correct holes. With their installation, they installed the clips higher on the body, and you can see daylight between the trim and gasket surface. Lots of daylight. See photo 14 - 16. Much adjustment was needed with the trim as the corners where the chrome comes together was actually sitting ON top of the body, and not over/in the channel where the trim is to install. Ive pics of this too. They did not final prep the face of the decklid before they painted it. I can only assume they thought the deck trim covers the whole vertical surface, which it doesnt, so you can visibly see the scuff marks on the face of the deck lid. In addition to these gripes, they also got overspray on my leaf springs, subframe connectors, all over the rear-end, etc. Hell, they even left residue brake fluid on the inner fender well after filling. I really think the only thing I am satisfied with are the hood pins.
I wont say that Im not partially to blame for any of my gripes. I shouldve given the car a 110% review prior to my taking it home, although some work appeared fine in the shop (like the rear spring hangers when I saw them),and some I wouldnt have been able to tell until rain/wash (glass leaks) or reassembly (dome light and deck lid trim). They had the car for nine months to complete their work. I was growing anxious and picked it up prior to their final buff. In hindsight, Im glad that I grabbed the car so I could fix things correctly, and honestly, with better attention to detail.
As it sits right now, Ive been trying to close the loop, and get the remnant paint for the car, or at least the paint code to match. There are items that need touch-up, like around the window trim, but also things that I may fix like re-prepping and painting the deck lid. Because they are mad over a relatively small outstanding balance (less than $1k), theyve advised they are unwilling to help with paint or code. What's puzzling is I cannot even get the opportunity to talk with them and put closure to an outstanding balance. So as of yesterday afternoon, I am paying for matching, and buying more paint, that I theoretically couldve purchased twice already since I partially paid for repainting the side of the car ..
The outstanding balance is less than the time it took me to repair their rear framerail work, especially at THEIR billable rate. Plus, should I place a price tag on my fixing the leaking front and back glass (including gaskets?), reinstalling trim clips, having to live with too much shaved off the deck lid, hole in the headliner cut in the wrong spot, touching up at the window trim, my overspray cleaning, etc.? Confusing.
IVE reached out via phone and email to both Tom and Mike in order to put closure to this, and also try and get my paint. Ive been asking to meet with them since March OF LAST YEAR (2011). I even offered to bring them coffee (read my correspondence below). This has gotten nowhere. Yet Im the bad guy, and theyre mad at me. This all may sound like a gripe because I havent been able to get my paint. I'd be lying if I said this paint issue didn't piss me off, but I need to advise our Mopar community that care about quality work on their cars.
Let me know if I'm the one being as asshole. Id like to hear your feedback. Here is my WORD-FOR-WORD email correspondence with them:
03/05/11
Since I am hot and mad, I figure I'll go ahead and shoot you two an email.
I see the issue with the rear shackles. Wow. That was the fix you mention for it not being installed at the correct angle? First, I don't even know if that will hold. Second, you even butchered the factory mounting points (I'm not sure exactly why), and you knew that I wanted to have the option to run the factory spring locations. This is going to make ME fixing this more difficult. I will not have the factory mounts as a reference (nor be able to use them) which is what I'm assuming would've made it easier to get the shackles horizontal in the first place. By the way I believe neither of them are installed straight.
I'm afraid to check the front hanger to see if that's off.
Let me know how I should fix this. And at this time I'm not planning for it to go back to your shop.
I WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO MIKE ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE CONVERSATION DIDN'T GO WELL. I LET HIM KNOW THAT I WAS GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO WITH THE CAR, MEANING HOW I WAS GOING TO FIX IT, AND HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE ME, AND I WOULD TOUCH BASE WITH THEM IN A WEEK.
03/07/11
Hi Tom,
Mike let me know about the wheels. I figure I'll grab them when I grab paint.
I mentioned to Mike that I didn't see the rear spring hangers in the box of hanger parts. He was going to do some checking around to see if they were still there somewhere.
I meant to talk to Mike about final monies when I spoke to him earlier. I apologize for that. I have not sent anything out yet. Initially I was planning to schedule a time during this week to come down and grab paint, give handshakes and give you money. Right now, I would like to further review the suspension (per the discussion Mike and I had this morning) before I pay anything. I know this is not what you want to hear,but I need to make sure everything is safe/clean/acceptable. This means I will be doing work on the car in order to make the rear shackle mounting locations safe and clean, and to represent what it was and should've been. I will even be cleaning up the grind job of the factory rear hanger location/box. I was looking through some pics I snapped from earlier in the build. I've attached one (2852) of them here. This was what I had in mind, even though it looks like (assuming) Tyler missed on his first try (and yes, on both framerails from my pictures) by looking at the holes welded closed/new grind marks/heat marks.... This means what I have now is his third try....? Photos 1 and 2, not what I had in mind. We can talk further about this if this is an issue, but I trust this will be okay withyou for the time being.
NEVERGOT A RESPONSE FROM ROCKET ON THIS EMAIL.
03/14/11
Gents,
Hereis an update on what I've had the chance to work on.
I've taken the chance to measure the front spring boxes, the rear hanger location,as well as measure the factory dimensions (for comparison) from another Dart.
I na nut shell:
Front
-it looks like the front boxes are within 1/8" - 3/16" square to the car, or relative to each other.
-the passenger side spring box sits 1/8" further inboard than the drivers side.
-taken together I assume this looks like it should be alright.
Rear
-it appears the weld tube is set approx. 3/4" forward (overall dimn) than that of factory. I still need to review this, as I believe the bottom of the shackle needs to be directly below or slightly behind the spring pivot hole in the frame.
-it appears the weld tube is set approx. 1" lower in the frame rail than that of factory ~ would still halfway follow the install instructions, unfortunately that puts the tube just a bit below the face of the frame rail, leaving me a notch.
-the weld tube on the passenger side was left in the frame rail, from one of the first attempts ~ may prove a pain as it might be in the way of where the weld tube is going to go. I cannot see into the driver's side to see if that one is there too, but I can assume it is.
-I will need to reset the pinion angle (grind and new perches, or do the math to see if shims are acceptable).
At this point from measuring my car and the other, I've got a little over three hours into this. I've got someone doing me a (hopefully for free) favor of building a couple 1/8" plate boxes that can overlay/wrap the frame rails where they've been cut. I'm planning to spend Saturday cutting out the current weld tubes, and getting the new boxes in place. Pending how much inboard spring angle I have, I will either install the off-set shackles to the rear, or I will work to slide the weld tube inboard as much as possible to accommodate.
You're as up to speed as I am.
03/24/11
Gents,
Sorry for the delay. I've had an email drafted to you for the last couple days, but I've been trying to figure out the most productive and polite way of laying it all out there to you. At the risk of further irritation to you, or repetitive feedback, I'm providing my long-winded thought process so you can understand where I'm coming from. As always, I will communicate openly. I hope you'll appreciate that. In the end, I want to be satisfied with the car and in my experience working with you, while at the same time, I also want what is fair for you guys. It's probably too late, but I do want you to be happy with me as a customer ~ even with the frustrations I've voiced over the last couple months. I still intend to do future business with yo uwell after this car is back on the road.
My decision to have your shop complete the body work and paint on my car was for a couple reasons. I felt you could provide a better product than I could, and you could get it to final paint faster than me. In addition to this, there was an expected level of detail I figured would be inherent in taking to you. From the beginning, this project was not to be show car quality. We all know that. But what I'm feeling is that because it wasn't a $50k+ build, the project wasn't as smooth/tidy as I thought it would be. Perhaps that is a misconception on my part, but that's how I feel.
I'm still a little sour over the body lines overall with the car. In the end, I still agree we should've discussed more of the expectations, but my gut still tells me that straight lines down the side of a car should hold true for a $50k job, or a $10k job. After all, they are the lines of the car. I'll be honest that I am bugged over the balance being charged for repainting the left side of the car. Mostly becauseof what I just mentioned above, but also because the reason to repaint was substantially caused by redoing the lines where the door meets the fender. I'm not disputing paying money towards repainting the left side of the car. You provided me an estimate for doing that work which I agreed to, and your pricing landed within the range. After having the car home for a couple weeks, and getting the chance to roll the car into the sun, I will most likely repaint the car in the future, paying particular attention to the lines running down the middle of the car.
As for the smaller, detail-type things (which I've already mentioned to you) that still need to be addressed, cleaned-up, etc. I am sure I'll eventually get over them, but right now they're fresh in my mind so they are bugging me. There is overspray on the rear-end, the leafsprings, subframe connectors, etc. There is bare metal on the rear-end housing where the new perches are installed. Looking under the hood this last weekend, there was a puddle of brake fluid on the fender-well. Glad we used DOT5. As mentioned in a previous email, I understand I provided OE and non-OE clips for the front and back glass trim. I am a little concerned there are missing clips along the trim, notably the bottom left corner of the back window as the trim pulls away from the car and doesn't sit snug. Enough that I was able to move the trim to better align what was installed. I understand the trim install will scratch the paint, but seeing how many chips/scratches, and how deep, I would ask if any tape was used to better protect the paint. Also to hear that someone's first suspension relocation installation was my car is disheartening. Especially since this frame rail issue is what started my attack on quality. The fix for the rear shackle mounts, how the stock hanger boxes were cut, and how many tries he had at getting the weld tubes in the right place is not what I expected from a shop. The frame rails are a huge deal to me and others that have seen the car.
I am more than comfortable getting these smaller things mentioned above cleaned-up and done. I am not comfortable completing the final cut and buff. I simply don't know how much clear was laid down, or how much was sanded down. The right side of the car still needs to be buffed. The rear quarter sand marks are too visible. There are still some large clear runs (down the front of the door, back of fender, and even a drip protruding past the front edge of the door) on the right side. Should be easy to sand out. You did tell me you were not completely finished with the cut/buff, and that could be completed in the future. I'll also keep an eye on the window trim to see how much (if any) it moves.
To pull this all together, I felt I could have the work done by a shop, and feel it a great benefit to my car and my sanity of not having to complete the work myself. It would come home, and be ready to put back together. Right now, I feel a little frustrated there is further work to do. I'm in this position of feeling like a giant asshole nagging you (which I don't feel that I'm completely out-of-line), planning for my grinder and welder to replace frame/suspension work, but the part that gets me most is I've paid $________, over nine months, for a car that I need to perform fabrication and clean-up, and I'm thinking about sanding the sides of. Plus I've got a balance for a repaint that started this whole whirlwind.
I did not get the chance to start working on the rear frame rails this last weekend. I'm estimating that I will spend about 24 hours on the frame rails, the stock hanger boxes, the measuring that I've already completed, cleaning the overspray areas, etc. Please know I plan to apply this to my outstanding balance. I'm also considering deducting a portion of the $___ (paid for the installation of the relocation kit), as I don't think it's fair to pay completely for work that I will cut out and replace.
Please let me know your thoughts or feedback on any of the above. As I said at the top, I want what is fair for you and me. If you think this is out of line, please communicate that to me. I want to continue to work with you in the future, and I want you to welcome me as a customer.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET. I CALLED THEM A WEEK LATER.
03/31/11
Tom-
Thank you for taking my call yesterday, and thanks for your feedback on my email from last week. I apologize my email caused such a stir. After talking with you, I can see there was misinterpretation on what was expressed. As mentioned on the phone, I was not intending to create frustration for you guys, but trying to really put everything out there. I'm glad we were able to talk.
I have cut a check for $______. I can bring it down tomorrow (Friday) during the work-day if you like (so you've got it before you head out of town, and I can grab wheels and paint if available, and it also gives me a chance for a few minutes of face time with you), or I can drop it in the mail.
If there is some reason I cannot bring the car back down to you in the future (once it is back on the road), please communicate that to me. I am planning for you guys to complete the cut and buff (as you mentioned before the car left), and touch-up along the window trim. I've even managed to create a couple chips getting the passenger qtr window in. Those things are a pain.
Thanks again, Tom.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 03/31/11
Hey ,Why dont you just throw it in the mail, things are pretty crazy around here getting ready for the show and Im going to be in and out. Have to get a Dart tomorrow and do not know when Ill be here.
04/01/11
HiTom,
Wanted to let you know the check is in the mail. It should get there before you leave.
Lets touch base when you guys are back in town. I'd like to come down and talk with you guys to clear the air. If you can spare 15-30 mins, I'll bring coffee and I can better explain what my email was trying to convey.
Also wanted to ask about your upcoming road trip... I see you are bringing things down for people, but are you also planning to bring anything up? Meaning if there are a couple small items that people need, can they ask you to keep your eyes peeled? Stuff like '67 ~ license plate light lens,interior trim that runs around the perimeter of the back window, reverse light lenses, etc.
Safe travels,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
05/02/11
Hey Tom,
Hope you guys had a fun trip.
Wanted to see if it was possible to meet with you guys maybe sometime next week.
Let me know when you get a chance.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
06/14/11 ~after a couple check-in emails~
Tom,
Let me know if this is getting annoying, or if I should stop trying to get in touch. I will try and call you by the end of the week if I don't hear from you guys.
If you guys are planning to just consider things done and not discuss, I would still like to grab my wheels and left over paint (and formula).
Let me know.
Thanks.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 06/23/11
Hey , Sorry for not getting back to you. Mike is still angry about the bill not getting paid in fill and does not want to give the paint back until the bill is paid or at least a mutual agreement can be made. Getting the wheels back to you is not a problem. Let me know what you are thinking.
06/24/11
Hi Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me, I really appreciate it. I hope you guys understand that I've been wanting to talk with you, hence the reason for my emails and phone calls, as well as me asking to meet at the end of May to talk. As I said back in March, I wanted to know your thoughts on what I had to say, that I wanted what was/is fair for all of us, and that if I was out of line to please communicate that to me as I want to continue to work with you, and I want Rocket to want to work on my car again in the future. And as of today, I still want that.
In an effort to help move forward, I'm honestly not sure your appropriate method put closure to the bill or come to a mutual agreement. Trying to explain my thoughts/opinions seemed to set everyone off, so I'm not sure how you guys would like to discuss this. Perhaps email isn't the most effective way? I am happy to explain what I am thinking via email, but I would ask that you PLEASE call me should there be any frustration read from anything I have to say.
Let me know if you'd like me to email or call you.
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
04/09/12
Guys,
I sent you (Tom) an email back on June 24 of last year and didnt hear back. I didnt follow-up after since last I spoke with Tom, I was told Mike was still pretty mad. I figured that after all this time without a response, you guys were/are uninterested in discussing further. Its unfortunate if thats the case, but not much that can be done about it now.
The reason for this email is to ask again if I can have the remnant paint, if you still have it, or I would appreciate the paint code used. There are a couple areas that youd understand why Im asking forthe paint.
Please let me know either way so I know if Ill need to get it matched.
RECEIVED FROM ROCKET 04/11/11
Hey ,
We still have anoutstanding bill $___ and until we can at least come to an understanding onthat we are not willing to help on this.
Just an FYI but we are heading on the road for two weeks, going to the Vegas and LA Mopar shows so if I do not get back to you right away that is why.
For some reason the amount stated in their email went up .
04/30/12
Hey Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me. Wanted to wait until you got back before I sent you an email.
As for our discussion, is it best to talk over the phone, or would you like to me start discussion via email?
Thanks,
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/13/12
I left a voicemail at their shop. Theyre recorded message says theyll be back 08/17/12 as theyre at the Mopar Nationals in Ohio.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/22/12
I emailed you guys back on April 30th (hoping you were back from Vegas and LA), and left a vm with you last week (on the 08/13) while you were back at the Mopar Nats.
Wanted to let you guys know I am going to start the process of getting the paint matched for the car this week.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
08/28/12
I left another voicemail at their shop.
NO RESPONSE FROM ROCKET.
