Sloppy Steering in '65 Valiant Manual Box

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dibbons

dibbons

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Drove the Valiant from its purchase point of Port Angelis (state of Washington) to La Paz, BCS, Mexico (with a stop of several years in California) without having had even a flat tire (2,250 miles). Since then, only an occaisonal 20 mile round trip to an annual local car show. However, during the last car show trip I found noticeable play in the factory manual steering. Today I finally got around to inspecting the steering linkage. With the jack stands supported the front frame rails, I spun the front tires and found no problem. Then crawled underneath and my visual inspection found nothing. Then I grabbed one tire and while turning it side to side (left to right, right to left) I found what I believe is known as an "idler arm" was moving up and down at the point where it butts up against the frame/K member.

I have not done any steering linkage/front end repairs on a Mopar in decades. I do remember using a pickle fork one time doing something or other. Well, that's the story and looking forward to getting his repaired, hopefully taking care of it myself.

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You need to inspect all points of the front suspension for looseness. Steering box cross shaft, tie rod ends, ball joints, idler arm, wheel bearings, upper and lower control arm bushings.
 
The idler arm should not move up/down, if so, it's worn out and should be replaced. 65'
 
I took a farmer friend of mine a pickle fork as he was very mechanically inclined to do some garage suspension replacement. He looked at me in an odd way and cracked it with a large estwing claw hammer and it popped right apart. Never underestimate a mechanically inclined farmer! LOL
 
Went to work removing the idler. At first, it looked like the nut for the end that was "loose/moving" in the K-frame was somewhat inaccessible. It was a little tricky removing the cotter pin there but after that task I found I could fit the box end of a 3/4" combination wrench over the top of the nut. Well the nut was "loose" already and I found I could just spin it off with my fingers. Weird. I found a flat washer under the castle nut.

Then I wondered if that end of the idler would need a pickle fork or not? Well, I pulled on it and it fell on out and down without any struggle at all. Is that normal? I don't know (see photos 1, 2, 4).

Then I removed the cotter pin and castle nut from the other end without a problem (see photo 3). The nut was not "loose" but after only about half a turn I was able to spin it off with my fingers. I did not try to break that end loose because I don't have a pickle fork handy.

Now I don't understand what the problem may be. Did the nut loosen somehow with the cotter pin and castle nut still in place? Did the hole in the K-frame wiggle so much that it is now an "oversize" diameter which makes the idler wiggle around? The end of the idler that fits into the K-frame does not seem to have much of a taper, almost looks like no taper to me. Don't know how it should look in the first place. Now that the threaded end of the idler that fits up into the K-frame is visible, I grabbed it and I did not notice any play/slack for now.

Next step is to find a pickle fork, remove the opposite end, and take it to the bench for closer examination. Maybe the local Autozone lends a pickle fork to customers? Will look into it.

Looks like FirmFeel sells idler arms for 62-66 Abodies. I think a read somewhere that manual and power steering cars share the same part.

Edit: Just to make sure the bracket welded to the K-frame that supports the idler arm was not cracked or broken, I crawled back under the vehicle with a hammer and tapped all around. Seems frame, K-member, and bracket are still pretty solid.

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Is this like sloppy seconds?
 
I'd be tempted to put it back in and tighten it to spec.
 
YY1 said:
I'd be tempted to put it back in and tighten it to spec.
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I found (hopefully correct) torque specs for idler arm stud nuts as follows: link 40 and bracket 45. I doubt there is room for a torque wrench in there, but I can guesstimate 45 by hand. Might give it a try tomorrow. Maybe a good idea to purchase new nuts beforehand.
 
dibbons said:
I found (hopefully correct) torque specs for idler arm stud nuts as follows: link 40 and bracket 45. I doubt there is room for a torque wrench in there, but I can guesstimate 45 by hand. Might give it a try tomorrow. Maybe a good idea to purchase new nuts beforehand.
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45LBFT would be what I call "good and tight" with a long handle 3/8" ratchet.
 
Maybe that's what the initial problem was- someone didn't have a torque wrench to fit in the slot.

45 sounds a little light to me....but if that's what the book says....unless it's an aftermarket part that came with different spec.
That happens.
 
YY1 said:
Maybe that's what the initial problem was- someone didn't have a torque wrench to fit in the slot.
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Point taken, but I've had the Valiant for over 14 years now and never noticed slack in the steering until the last time out. Still weird.
 
I like to leave the car on the ground and someone turn the wheel back and forth while I look for play in steering. Or you can jack up one side from control arm and grab the sides of the tire and pull back and forth to find play. Hanging from frame rails might work but not as good for finding steering play. Tighten it up and see if the play is gone 1st.
 
In addition I would have the wheels straight ahead/steering wheel in the middle of its travel & turn the wheel lightly back & forth to see how much play is in the box itself. 2 easy adjustments on the box but you might need a special tool to undo the big round lock ring on the rear face of the box which is the adjustment you do first then the locknut/adjuster shaft on top of the box. RR
 
if you can locate a copy of feb 1999 mopar action (ebay?) it has an excellent comprehensive article on working the manual steering box. RR EDIT just found one on ebay for $6.99
 
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I've always considered the FSM the ultimate guide for procedures but on this one Ehrenberg has hit it out of the field. tricks for unlocking the large locknut on the rear face & other good info. just need a inch lb torque wrench and a 11/16 12 point socket and 2 1/4-20 screws and a large screwdriver rather than the special spanner wrench for the adjuster & ebergs formula for filling it up with lube
 
Update: Neither my local bolt/nut fastener specialty store sells castle nuts and neither does local Auto Zone. In fact, I see the Centrix brand of idler arm (sold by Rock Auto) does not even use castle nuts and cotter pins anymore (according to the photo), just a "locking nut" alone. No thanks, not for me.

So I decided to rent a torque wrench (free at Auto Zone) and re-use the factory castle nuts (soaked 'em in Evaporust first). Well, the only way I could get the 1/2" drive torque wrench on the idler arm on the Kframe side was by way of a universal joint. I first tried the factory spec of 45 ft. lbs. but the wrench would never clic. The range of motion I had with the torque wrench was very, very limited. Then I tried 40 ft. lbs. and had the same problem. (I first tested the torque wrench on a loosened wheel lug nut and it clicked fine) I don't know if: I just wasn't tightening the nut enough; if the torque wrench needed a little more swing in order to click; or maybe the threads of the idler arm stud or nut were yielding due to age, rust, and previous installations?

Well, just for now I decided to leave the nut snug as is and insert the cotter pin. Well, I remember having a heck of a time removing the old cotter pin in the first place. Now the new cotter pin was getting hung up just a bit after it started its journey inside. I tried loosening the nut a tad, then tightening the nut a tad, in an effort to line up the hole for a better fit (no way to see anything). But the pin would only go through if I cut one side of the tang off completely. Not going to have much of a "safety" effect like that.

So I gave up and ordered an online idler arm that is pictured with the castle nuts/cotter pins. International shipping is going to take 4-6 weeks (fortunately, I'm not in a hurry).

Now previously when I removed the nut on the Kframe side, the idler arm dropped out of the frame without a problem. My question now is (and I trust a forum member can help me), I wonder if I need a pickle fork or not in order to remove the other end of the idler arm where it is attached to the steering link? If you have first hand experience and have removed both ends please let me know how to proceed. Factory service manual just says "remove idler arm". Thank you.
 
If your done with the arm, put the nut on leaving some space and hit the nut to loosen then remove the nut.
 
Heck take a big hammer and wack it hard and it will pop right off. After you remove the nut of course.

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Kendog 170 said:
Heck take a big hammer and wack it hard and it will pop right off. After you remove the nut of course.

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Correct, I already took that side off the Kmember and it fell out without even using a hammer. In fact, that's my own photo in post #22. I am asking about the opposite end where it is connected to the center link. Thank you.
 
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