Small Block 410 Build

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340baby. A bracket car means street time? In who's book?
Speaking of the book you mentioned, you didn't actually answer my question again. You assumed I read the book by stating what you did in the books defense and your opinion on it.

Again, what is the purple book?
 
340BABY said:
Hello justinp61 you asked why I said to stay away for the .600 lift range. It is the application JAX said “My Goal is 500 Hp and to be built for a bracket car.” So I took him at his word, a bracket car means it will see some street time. The two builds are very different with a .600 plus lift the engine will require different parts that are not conducive to street use or longevity. Your power band would be too high, the Torque Converter would have to be too high to be streetable, the springs required for that type of lift will lack longevity, operation range and heat production will all work together to reduce engine life. Typically and engine with a .600 lift, fully ported heads and the overall build of the engine he is suggesting is a 200 to 300 mile engine if it is well built, and for a drag motor that is pretty good. Yes he can run it on the street, and it will work, but it will have spongy feel at low RPM, and the trans will run warm, engine will run warm. It just wouldn’t be a long lasting, enjoyable ride. I hope this answers your question, and thanks for asking.
The Cam card: I can’t find this cam “Hughes HTL 4852” but this is a similar Comp cam

Low RPM
3000
Peak HP
7000
Redline
7500
Performance Description
High torque oval track and drag profile.
Engine Application
Level 5 camshafts are designed for fully prepared, high compression all-out racing engines and chassis.
Recommended Modifications
Extensive cylinder head modification, bigger titanium valves, lightweight valve train, maximum flow carburetion or fuel injection, racing gas (alcohol or nitro), magneto or electronic ignition, performance rod and crank assembly and increased engine clearances are required for maximum benefit.
Click to expand...

I don't completely agree with this.
Mine is a 416, short fill grouted, eddy heads, 256/265 SFT, 4800 stall.
I drive it everywhere on the street and never overheats. The stall is tight so normal driving picking up speed its at 2500rpm, flashes to 5200rpm.
I actually feel it is too streetable for my liking, wish i had of listened to my engine builder and gone a cam around 265/273.
Each to their own.
 
I was reading the book Big Inch Mopar Small Blocks.

The book mentioned that the '75 and later 360 blocks should be bored up to 0.030 over.

I have a 4179930-360 engine block year '79. And I already had it bored for my 4.040 pistons.:eek:ops:

I wasn't aware of this statement from the book.

What are your thoughts and experiences? I am ready to start the engine build and just found about this....:pale:
 
Sonic check the block for the actual amount of material left. If your machinist OK's the block for more, just know how much more and the con's that come with it. It maybe possible to get/find a kit with .040 pistons.

Forged slugs will be fitted at every cylinder for that cylinder. Cast/Hyper slugs are not normally done this way. Hypers expand less than forged slugs but require a tighter fitting.
 
justinp61 is absolutely right there are many way to skin a cat, I to have an over built street car. I had some old race parts that were sitting on the shelf, and while sitting around in my shop with my buddies “Maybe drinking some barley pops, maybe.” We were looking at my 1973 Dart Sport 340 727 8 ¾, triple black with factory sunroof sense high school, and a buddy said wouldn’t it be funny to put all this stuff in your Dart for the Street, and I said no, it’s my “BABY FOR GODS SACKS”. Then while sleeping that idea snuck in to my dreams, no doubt the “Barley” had a little bit to do with it, funny how that happens. Started with a 1973 Dart Sport, bolt on frame connectors, (No Roll Cage) I had an “Old” set of Mullen and Company W2 heads that I bought in the 80’s that uses a liberal amount of epoxy in them (Quick Note when I got them back fro California there was a not inside that said ‘after testing on our flow bench we no long consider the ports and chamber a restriction, happy racing Bob Mullin” I was I was 25 kind of cool. It has 13.5 to 1 Old TRW pop tops, Eagle H-Beam 6.123 rods, balanced (That heavy a$$) rotating assembly, and a 1970 steel crank 3.31, SFI fluid damper and flex plate. Tunnel Ram with 2 – 800 Thunder Series, 457 MPP solid lift cam, I have a bottom end girdle, Roller rockers, and use the McCandless oiling system, with a 7 qt pan and a high volume pump 65psi when cold, 40 to 45 when warm, with a Nitrous Express Duel Plate 500 hp kit, tow fuel pumps 1 - 250gph (5.5 psi) for the engine, and 1 - 500gph pump for the Nitrous Express system and a 20 Gal. cell in the trunk. MSD - 6AL box and MSD Distributor, MSD Nitrous Retard Box 2 degrees per 100hp, 8mm MSD wires, CSI Elc. water pump. A Sun Coast 4200 Convertor 727 with 4.30 gear with street slicks 32-12.5-15, 8000 rpm motor shifted at 7200 and launched at 4300, weight is 3257lbs. I once drove it from my summer house in Northern Michigan to Dream Cruise in Detroit (4hrs) to prove a point that I could. I changed the rear gear to 2.72 for the drive and changed it back to 4.30 when I got there. I am not saying it was comfortable, but it made it fine, lots of top end speed LOL. Yes it was fast, ran a 9.56 at 147 with the 250 hr Nitrous kit in, never ran it all out but I think it could have gotten to the low 9’s. I let it loose once on the street with the 500HP kit in a title for title race with a 1970 396 “Street Monster Nova” and beat his A$$ (6 to 8 car lengths) but it scared the **** out of me with no roll cage or wheelie Bars I activated the kit after second gear, couldn’t put a needle up my butt with a sludge hammer after that run. I still own the 1970 Nova, though I thought about filling the inside with dirt and putting flowers in it and sticking it in the yard, or maybe putting a new Hemi in it, that would piss off the Bow Tie Boys. After running this a few years I realized I missed driving it on a more consistent basis, so I am now taking back to more of a Pro Touring look and building a 340 10.5, EFI Cam from Comp, nice set of reworked J-Heads, and a Edelbrock TPI system, and a set of Factory cast iron headers “I paid way too much for” and a 4.10 gear, I just missed driving it. The point I am trying to make and I think justinp61 (Not to Speak for him) is making is be sure you think through carefully (and be honest to yourself) of what you want to do with it, street driving, track time, drivability, and longevity. Good luck and ask any ???? you have, we will all do our best to help.
 
The best words in his post are;

"Be honest with yourself"
 
First “JAX” most people who do a lot of “Small Block MOPAR” machining will tell you that 74 and later 360 should be kept under .030 because of the wall thickness, but Rumblefish is right, you should have it sonic tested to make sure, it is worth the money. There is an old book you should read, (It is a little dated) but the basics are sound, and it is an easy read. The book talks to people like Bob Mullen (head engineer on the Hemi Heads and the builder and designer of the W2 Head), and it is written by Larry Schreib, these are some of Mopar’s performance God Fathers. The book is call “How To Build Dodge/Plymouth Performance” it is an “SA Book”. Like I said it is an old book but a good read, to help you understand where we have come from as far as Mopar Performance. Personal Note: Hensley racing (Knoxville Tennessee) they do great work, and the Hensley family are the nicest people you could deal with, not sure if Matt is still working at the shop, I saw him working for the Allen Johnson Pro-stock team, Matt cut his teeth working for Eagle Racing, and Scotty Cannons (SP?) Pro-Mod, and Matt and Ken ran Hemi Cudas (Ken’s is original Hemi Cuda) SS cars, Matt had the world record for a while.


Now to Rumblefish. In 1997 or 1998 Hensley Racing (Ken, Alice, Matt, and Kelli Hensley) bought out Herb McCandles. In the transaction a lot if Herbs and Larry’s Tech. came with it, they put together a little (Very Handy) pamphlet they called the “The Little Purple Book” with a lot of tech. notes from Herb and Larry. It has a lot of stuff like how herb got around the old crossover oil line on small blocks for racing they use to run under the intake, Small and Big Block info on Machining. Heck they might not even have it at Hensley’s any more, but if I know Ken and Matt they have something similar, and just as good, ask them and they will know what you are talking about.
 

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Back in the mid 80' s when we were running the offset ground 360 crank 2.00 inch journal 6.00 rod 355 piston engines I ran a 4.100 bore 340 block on one engine the other was a 4.100 bore 72 360 block both had oval port w-2's by Keith Dorton both blocks lived they had the same venolia gas ported pistons not saying it's advisable or the norm just stating a fact
 
340BABY said:
First “JAX” most people who do a lot of “Small Block MOPAR” machining will tell you that 74 and later 360 should be kept under .030 because of the wall thickness, but Rumblefish is right, you should have it sonic tested to make sure, it is worth the money. There is an old book you should read, (It is a little dated) but the basics are sound, and it is an easy read. The book talks to people like Bob Mullen (head engineer on the Hemi Heads and the builder and designer of the W2 Head), and it is written by Larry Schreib, these are some of Mopar’s performance God Fathers. The book is call “How To Build Dodge/Plymouth Performance” it is an “SA Book”. Like I said it is an old book but a good read, to help you understand where we have come from as far as Mopar Performance. Personal Note: Hensley racing (Knoxville Tennessee) they do great work, and the Hensley family are the nicest people you could deal with, not sure if Matt is still working at the shop, I saw him working for the Allen Johnson Pro-stock team, Matt cut his teeth working for Eagle Racing, and Scotty Cannons (SP?) Pro-Mod, and Matt and Ken ran Hemi Cudas (Ken’s is original Hemi Cuda) SS cars, Matt had the world record for a while.


Now to Rumblefish. In 1997 or 1998 Hensley Racing (Ken, Alice, Matt, and Kelli Hensley) bought out Herb McCandles. In the transaction a lot if Herbs and Larry’s Tech. came with it, they put together a little (Very Handy) pamphlet they called the “The Little Purple Book” with a lot of tech. notes from Herb and Larry. It has a lot of stuff like how herb got around the old crossover oil line on small blocks for racing they use to run under the intake, Small and Big Block info on Machining. Heck they might not even have it at Hensley’s any more, but if I know Ken and Matt they have something similar, and just as good, ask them and they will know what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Thank you will do.
 
Results from sonic test.

Thrust Sides 0.265 to 0.300
Non Thrust Sides 0.240 to 0.275.
 
340BABY said:
Now to Rumblefish. In 1997 or 1998 Hensley Racing (Ken, Alice, Matt, and Kelli Hensley) bought out Herb McCandles. In the transaction a lot if Herbs and Larry’s Tech. came with it, they put together a little (Very Handy) pamphlet they called the “The Little Purple Book” with a lot of tech. notes from Herb and Larry. It has a lot of stuff like how herb got around the old crossover oil line on small blocks for racing they use to run under the intake, Small and Big Block info on Machining. Heck they might not even have it at Hensley’s any more, but if I know Ken and Matt they have something similar, and just as good, ask them and they will know what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Cooool. I didn't know that. Thank you.
 


From the Hensley Performance catalog.
I did this on my 410.
One of the more interesting threads I've read lately.

On a sidenote, I sold my 73 Duster to Herb McCandles's son, always wondered what he did with it.
 
That was a while back on MoPars correct?
 
Also take your plate behind the oil filter with four holes and add four more, make sure to deburr your new holes.
 
hmmm, when I had results nearing .300 I was told by a well known mopar builder that those numbers are "way off"...subsequently I had my block checked an additional 2 times by two different reputable shops - numbers were all over the map - didn't know who's numbers to trust, so I went to a 4th shop and personally witnessed the scanning and calibrating...4 different shops = 4 different sets of values (and they definitely varied by more than a hundred thou, AND they all used Dakota Ultrasonics!), I've learned to take the sonic readings with a grain of salt....
 
If I am not mistaking the above mentioned modification, is the same mentioned in this book on the picture. BIG INCH MOPAR Small Blocks
 

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340BABY said:
justinp61 is absolutely right there are many way to skin a cat, I to have an over built street car. I had some old race parts that were sitting on the shelf, and while sitting around in my shop with my buddies “Maybe drinking some barley pops, maybe.” We were looking at my 1973 Dart Sport 340 727 8 ¾, triple black with factory sunroof sense high school, and a buddy said wouldn’t it be funny to put all this stuff in your Dart for the Street, and I said no, it’s my “BABY FOR GODS SACKS”. Then while sleeping that idea snuck in to my dreams, no doubt the “Barley” had a little bit to do with it, funny how that happens. Started with a 1973 Dart Sport, bolt on frame connectors, (No Roll Cage) I had an “Old” set of Mullen and Company W2 heads that I bought in the 80’s that uses a liberal amount of epoxy in them (Quick Note when I got them back fro California there was a not inside that said ‘after testing on our flow bench we no long consider the ports and chamber a restriction, happy racing Bob Mullin” I was I was 25 kind of cool. It has 13.5 to 1 Old TRW pop tops, Eagle H-Beam 6.123 rods, balanced (That heavy a$$) rotating assembly, and a 1970 steel crank 3.31, SFI fluid damper and flex plate. Tunnel Ram with 2 – 800 Thunder Series, 457 MPP solid lift cam, I have a bottom end girdle, Roller rockers, and use the McCandless oiling system, with a 7 qt pan and a high volume pump 65psi when cold, 40 to 45 when warm, with a Nitrous Express Duel Plate 500 hp kit, tow fuel pumps 1 - 250gph (5.5 psi) for the engine, and 1 - 500gph pump for the Nitrous Express system and a 20 Gal. cell in the trunk. MSD - 6AL box and MSD Distributor, MSD Nitrous Retard Box 2 degrees per 100hp, 8mm MSD wires, CSI Elc. water pump. A Sun Coast 4200 Convertor 727 with 4.30 gear with street slicks 32-12.5-15, 8000 rpm motor shifted at 7200 and launched at 4300, weight is 3257lbs. I once drove it from my summer house in Northern Michigan to Dream Cruise in Detroit (4hrs) to prove a point that I could. I changed the rear gear to 2.72 for the drive and changed it back to 4.30 when I got there. I am not saying it was comfortable, but it made it fine, lots of top end speed LOL. Yes it was fast, ran a 9.56 at 147 with the 250 hr Nitrous kit in, never ran it all out but I think it could have gotten to the low 9’s. I let it loose once on the street with the 500HP kit in a title for title race with a 1970 396 “Street Monster Nova” and beat his A$$ (6 to 8 car lengths) but it scared the **** out of me with no roll cage or wheelie Bars I activated the kit after second gear, couldn’t put a needle up my butt with a sludge hammer after that run. I still own the 1970 Nova, though I thought about filling the inside with dirt and putting flowers in it and sticking it in the yard, or maybe putting a new Hemi in it, that would piss off the Bow Tie Boys. After running this a few years I realized I missed driving it on a more consistent basis, so I am now taking back to more of a Pro Touring look and building a 340 10.5, EFI Cam from Comp, nice set of reworked J-Heads, and a Edelbrock TPI system, and a set of Factory cast iron headers “I paid way too much for” and a 4.10 gear, I just missed driving it. The point I am trying to make and I think justinp61 (Not to Speak for him) is making is be sure you think through carefully (and be honest to yourself) of what you want to do with it, street driving, track time, drivability, and longevity. Good luck and ask any ???? you have, we will all do our best to help.
Click to expand...



I don't want to pee in your cereal, but the 8.75 axle was NOT used in 1973.

Must have been another "barley pop" moment.
 
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