Some alignment help needed please.

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stewy22

stewy22

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After replacing the 4 ball joints and uca bushings I have had the shop try aligning the front end 4 times and it still pulls to the left.So after many hours of reading earlier posts I am going to try it myself.I have bought a caster/camber/toe kit and I am going to attempt it very soon.I have just a few questions if someone could please answer them.What and where is the control arm pivot tube and how do I make sure its correct?Also where are the bolts to adjust the caster and camber located?Its a 76 dart I'm working on.I know not to use stock specs.I plan on using -5deg camber,+2.5 deg caster,and toe in 1/16 to 1/8.Any info will be greatly appreciated.By the way I will be using the quick trick pro system if you want to google it.
Thank you!!!!!
 
caster and camber bolts are located where the upper control arms bolt to the body...one of the ends of the bolt has a cam on it that moved the upper control arm .
 
stewy22 said:
What and where is the control arm pivot tube and how do I make sure its correct?Also where are the bolts to adjust the caster and camber located?!
Click to expand...

I don't have any idea what a control arm pivot tube is

The upper control arms pivot on bushings which is where the adjustments are. These interact, and adjust caster/ camber

The lower arm has one big bushing with a threaded pin which fastens into the K member. You sound like a guy who needs a shop manual. Unfortunately, "we" don't have access to a 76, but so far as adustments and the construction of the front end they are the same as the 72 manual, which you can download for free here:

The thread, you'll have to scroll down as some of the earlier links are broken but have been reposted later

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=manual%2C+download

Link to the 72 manual

[ame]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/1972%20Plymouth%20Chassis%20Serv%20Man.pdf[/ame]


You really should have a shop manual. You can buy reprints and "on CD" "around the www" and eBay

I would think that pulling means

1 a shop that just plain doesn't know what they are doing

2 something broken / loose / worn allowing the alignment to change

3 could also be a worn tire, try borrowing a pair of tires from something else. Tires can have a TREMENDOUS affect on handling and steering.

4 Don't forget the REAR of the car. If the springs are worn, broken leafs, bad bushings, or all jacked up in the rear with extended shackles, etc, the rear of the car can steer the car.

Some other ramblings:

from this thread:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=60712

One member suggests:

"Have them start with the front cam all the way out and the rear cam all the way in. Move the rear cam out until camber is in spec (1/2 deg. neg is good). This is the most positive caster that is available without new parts (offset bushings, tubular upper control arms, etc.). All of this is AFTER setting ride height. I usually set ride height with about an inch between the LCA bumper and the frame, then even the sides up. "

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/front-end-alignment.html

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howto/mopp_0701_1968_plymouth_gtx_suspension/index.html

And from AllPar, the "skoch" chart:

289d4j7.jpg
 
I can tell you if the ride height is not set first to factory spec per FSM, you will never align that car correctly, and it can pull, handle funky, power steering may squeal easily at full lock, have poor ride, and hit on the bump stops… Other than all that it will be spot on. LOL

I have also found there are few front end alignment technicians left on the planet that know, or care to take the time to learn how to align our beloved torsion bar suspensions.

You have to ask the shop if they have worked on any old Mopars, and if they come back with something like; “Sh***t we do old Vetts, and Mustangs all the time, no problem Bud”… Run away, find another shop they are clueless. Look for guys in their late fifties that worked on these cars when they were new, or still plentiful on the road.

Moog problem solver eccentric upper control arm bushings may help to get 1 to 2 degrees more caster if indeed you have a caster problem.
click here: K7103
 
Thanks for all the great info everybody.My landlord informed me he once owned a tire shop and remembers working on these.Hes supposed to help me and armed with all this info we should be able to "Get er done".I'll let you know how it goes.Don't forget to vote!!!
 
Shops always F up these cars trying to align them. DIY. It isn't hard bro.
 
I'm an alignment tech at my job and aligning these cars are very very easy, now a 69 big block corvette sting ray. Not so much. That's a different story They have many different camber caster kits and upper control arms to aid this but for the most part is very easy I personally like the upper control arms for adjustment. If your is pulling make sure he gives you a very good caster split . You want at least a neg 1/2 degree to compensate for road crown . Cross rotate your front tires make sure it's not a radial pull .be sure your rear thrust angle is 0 or close to it otherwise it'll dogtrack. And look funky goin down the road. Oh make sure ride height is set prior . That changes everything . I'm sure some of this has been said already. But haven't read all responses yet. Good luck
 
Or find a place that has an old rack (not a computer controlled one) with people that know how to use it.
 
A smart guy,with a gauge,beats an new alignment set up everytime here.
 
Don't wanna knock the older generation. As I'm only. 22 and I'm sure you guys can align a car by eye. But use a very very nice unit at work Went to school for alignments an suspension. And I have to say the new stuff comes in handy if you know how to use it a lot more than just an alignment. Ill tell you ride height toe out on turns all kinda of trick stuff. Some of it useful yea some of it useless sure but being as I'm learning on new equipment i prefer it I think it really makes for a more precise alignment.

Ps not bashing on the old schoolers
 
Does the car have power steering? If the car is still pulling to one side, the power steering controll valve may not be centered.

Dustya 383 knows what he's talking about. Follow all his advice before setting the alignment, and also be sure the tire pressure is the same on both front tires. I was an alignment guy in another lifetime. Used the old lights/mirror rack back then. Jim Beam? I think it was called.

Good luck.

George
 
It was steering pretty good,just a slight wander to the left before I took it into the shop.They won't use my specs.Tomorrow is the day we make our adjustments. Its funny how when u make a right turn and let go of the wheel it turns back but if you make a left turn and let go it stays where you remove your hands. Even while creeping if you let go of the wheel it turns left.Didn't do that before.Thank you everyone for your input.It helps a lot.
 
This may sound stupid, but have you considered that you may have a defective tire? I had a constant pull to the right that three trips to the alignment shop couldn't fix. An old timer suggested that maybe I had slipped a belt in one of the front tires. To test, he suggested swapping the front tires from side to side. If it pulls the other way, there you go. It acted exactly as he described.
 
One of the most important parts is as adjustments are made, roll the car to get the tires to settle to the new wheel position. Then measure again. It takes a bit of fiddling, but when done right, they handle excellent.

Make sure to tighten parts to specification, if loose they will change!
 
The tires have less than 1000 miles on them but anything is possible at this point.2 Darts it doesn't sound stupid I have heard the same thing from other people.I really appreciate any input.
 
:burnout:I haven't even got to the wiring and transmission leaks yet.I'll be picking your brains for sure.I've owned chevelles,novas,mustangs etc,even a corvette and I wouldn't give up this old /6 dart for any of them.I think its a sickness thats only getting worse.
 
i did mine my self no specs i just adjusted rolled back and forth and adjusted did this like ten times but it worked great im not that techie yet but back yard mechanic i can do lol
 
Once you've had a Mopar you'll catch this nasty disease that there is no cure for. Trust me I know this for a fact lol
 
And to add Sometimes tires can cause a pull even when brand new. Has happened several times at my shop
 
Did the measurements.Not even close on the caster,camber is like -.9,and I have toe out instead of toe in which explains the scrubbing.Gonna go figure out how to put some positive caster on this thing.
 
To get more caster you want to move the upper ball joint to the rear. This is done by adjusting the upper front eccentric, for out, and the rear eccentric for in. Then move the rear eccentric out enough to set the camber. I use zero camber, because the more negative results in less caster. To get more, you need to use offset bushings. I have had luck measuring center of rear axle to center if front hub, with wheels straight ahead, to check for equal caster. Checking how car drives is also a good indication. Lack of neutral behavior when driving straight down the road is an indication of an alignment problem. There should be a very very slight tendency, to the right without steering input.

The A-body is a great handling car, when properly adjusted, do not accept compromise. It just takes time. The setting are interrelated, so recheck toe-in and make adjustment to insure steering is always centered.
 
dustya_383 said:
Don't wanna knock the older generation. As I'm only. 22 and I'm sure you guys can align a car by eye. But use a very very nice unit at work Went to school for alignments an suspension. And I have to say the new stuff comes in handy if you know how to use it a lot more than just an alignment. Ill tell you ride height toe out on turns all kinda of trick stuff. Some of it useful yea some of it useless sure but being as I'm learning on new equipment i prefer it I think it really makes for a more precise alignment.

Ps not bashing on the old schoolers
Click to expand...

Dustya, just curious, did you go to DeAnza?
 
Well,I did it thanks to all you guys here on fabo.The info you gave was dead on and made alignment a breeze.I do have one more problem though and need some help getting pointed in the right direction.First I set the height of the vehicle by adjusting each arm to 1inch between the bumpstop and frame.Now comes the problem.The right side of the car was still over half an inch lower than the right side.So I adjusted the right side until the car sat even as measured from various points.On the right side of the car I followed the instructions for setting caster/camber and was at -.5 degree camber within probably 5 minutes.Easy I says.Go to the driver side,adjust front bolt out,rear bolt in,and camber is at-3.3.The best camber I could achieve was -2.2 with the rear cam bolt all the way out.So I adjusted the rear bolt back in and I'm back at -3.3.Car drives fine and tracks straight ahead.Do I forget about the car being level and adjust the bumpstops so they are equal lengths and try again? I looked underneath for any bent parts to the k-member and such but it looks fine.So now what do I do?Thanking you in advance......................Bump
 
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