Suggestions on performance upgrades for 225

[Brandon Weaver]

You could have a 400 HP 360 for half what a hopped up slant would cost.

This is true. I'm gonna have ~$2500 in a slant, and I guarantee its not going to come anywhere close to 400 horse! I'm going to guess you can swap to a v8 for the same amount or cheaper and not have to constantly worry about it blowing up (this is a real concern with forced induction) and be much easier to tune. And I'll go out on a limb and say a 4bbl 360 will outrun my slant and any turbo slant you can build for the same money.

You've gotta have a passion for the oddball 6 to hop 'em up and like it.

 

[desy500]

So you are out and about again in the ride?Wonderful.Lost track of the
thread,what was the culprit in the fuel system?Not wanting to jack the thread,just
the cliff notes version.

The jury is still out , sorry I never gave you guys the answer , cause I don't know if it is fixed. After I swapped out the fuel pump to a mechanical , re-did the lines from the pump to the carbs , and covered them with cool tube , I thought it was good to go , but the filter continues to run down very low SOMETIMES. No pattern to it , I filled the tank Sunday , went to Hagley show , filter was almost empty when I got there , in the am. when I drove home late afternoon , filter was full. I am going to drop the tank this winter , would you buy a new one , or get the old one redone?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I am not trying to shoot the slant in the foot here, either. I love slants. They are super cool. There's nothing else like them. The decision you need to make is about your expectations. Yes, you can turbo one and run with the big dogs. But do you want to go to all the trouble to learn a whole new "something else" or do you want to build something "pretty quick" and have fun?

 

[KosmicKuda]

I am going to drop the tank this winter , would you buy a new one , or get the old one redone?

I have a 64 Val vert I am trying to get on the road before the snow flies. (Now i gotta make sure the heater works. It's always something)

Anyway my tank had pinholes under the strap. Although the inside looked almost perfect through my boroscope. I just bought a new tank from Vans. $108 and DONE!! For that price it's not worth messing with it.
I would suggest you drop the tank and check out the sending unit, filter, float, etc. before ordering. My sending unit was good but the sock and float were not.

https://vansauto.com/product-category/fuel-tank-sending-units-and-related/fuel-tanks/page/2/

 

[trapster]

Two easy upgrades

Pertronix distributor module upgrade.
Make sure you do not have washers on your spark plugs ( assuming you still have drool tubes )

 

[roccodart440]

I am going to drop the tank this winter , would you buy a new one , or get the old one redone?

I would buy mine. It will be for sale this winter. Check out hot rod city's mopar factory replacement tank.

 

[DelrayA100]

Thank you for all the great in-put and advice. The Clifford Performance package (intake, headers, 2bbl Weber, air cleaner) is only 1,300.00. I have a great muffler guy who isn't that expensive, either. I'd like to keep the slanty in the van to keep it original as possible. I have searched (South FL) for a V8 with not much luck. Though I do have a lead on a built/performance slant 6. I'll keep posting on the decision and the build. I'm really happy that I found this forum....super helpful!

 

[Brandon Weaver]

Nononononononono

I would stay as far away from Clifford as possible. From what I've seen/heard they are scam artists, are stupidly overpriced, and a lot of times will sell you wrong parts (mech cam instead of hydro, adjustable (mechanical) rockers with a hydraulic cam, etc) Not to mention that package is poorly put together/overpriced/not right for you. I'll explain.

The intake is good. If you plan on racing that is. Big plenum and large short runners make for poor torque, and in your van, torque is king. Plus, it is unheated. (water heated, but thats not near as good as exhaust heat when it comes to driveability)

Which Weber is it? Webers aren't bad per say, but the only 2 that I know of is the small progressive one and the 38/38(?) The small one is good for mileage but too small for any sort of performance gain, and the bigger one... Well, it may work...

Clifford's headers are actually some of the best ones out there. That ain't saying much though. The next thing is the put off a lot of heat compared to manifolds (not sure that'd be something you'd want in van), don't have the provision for plenum heat on the intake, may or may not work in your van, and may or may not provide a worthy performance gain in your application. Plus they rust.

The already built 'performance' slant may be worth looking into, but be very careful. Make sure it has a cam that isn't too big (I'd say no bigger than [email protected] if it were me, but that's opinion) and the proper compression ratio to match. Oversize valves would be a plus, and I'd want to run a cranking compression test if it were me. I would pay like it was a core engine if he didn't have receipts or proof of some kind though. Also, see who ACTUALLY built the engine (him, shadetree mechanic, proper shop, etc)

Also, the slantsix(.org) forum is worth your time for sure.

 

[Sam Powell]

Your van is beautiful! Congratulations. Go to slantsix.org and check out Dadtruck's build. He did extensive research and testing before building his truck slant. I think he has the cam for you. Hi compression is a big help for these engines. Again check out Dadtruck's build. I think he shot for 9.0:1 DCR.

Clifford has not been able to supply parts reliably ever since the founding Clifford was gone. Somehow I got a Clifford intake, but no longer remember how. I have Dutra duals, which work well. If you have the low mounted truck starter motor, two will fit nicely. If you have the high mounted, car starter, then the mini started, plus some good pipe bending is required. The original design for the Dutra set up called for cutting the front half off the stock exhaust manifold and retaining the rear section with heat for the carb. This will only work with a stock type intake designed to work with the stock exhaust manifold. Since my slant has MPI fuel injection, carb heat is not needed, but if it gets much below 40f, you will enjoy having it.

I loved my stock Mopar Super Six two barrel. It ran better, and improved mileage over the STOCK one barrel. Keep in mind there were at least three stock one barrel carbs. The two barrel does not increase torgue but adds rpm. The stock 1 barrel pretty much runs out of steam at 4000 rpm. The 2 barrel makes it practical to push the rom to 5000 rpm. I had the Carter BBD. Mine had adjustable power rods, which I liked. The most powerful 2 bbl I tried was an old Stromberg from a poly 318, but it cut the milleage from 21 average to 15.

Guys who are building race engines go with high compression, big cams, big valves, and serious porting. I do not think this is consistent with your goals.

Most of the advice given here was good. One thing to check out is the wiring. The Mopar design allows for serious voltage drop from old bulkhead connectors, old wire, bad ameters and bad crimp connectors. Start the van, check the volts at the alternator out-put and then check it on the high side of the ballast resistor. If you see more than .5 volts drop, there is much performance being lost. I must add, it is more dramatic with electronic ignition. The old points did not seem to care as much. In any event, improving the wiring is cheap, and easy to due.

I must agree with those who said a V8 is easier and cheaper. But the slant is still cool.

Good luck with this and do check out Dadtruck' build.

Sam

 

[kazooom]

Bigger exhaust piping and or dual conversion. Get a 2 barrel on it at least and make sure you get a good advance curve set up in the distributor. An electronic ignition conversion is a good idea as well.

Did all this with mine and it made a big difference. You could swap it for an 8 but where's the fun in that.. great looking van by the way ( or BTW ) which ever you prefer

 

[Killer6]

Nononononononono



The intake is good. If you plan on racing that is. Big plenum and large short runners make for poor torque, and in your van, torque is king. Plus, it is unheated. (water heated, but thats not near as good as exhaust heat when it comes to driveability)

Which Weber is it?

I believe they are pushing a dual 2bbl. intake using holley 5200 style carbs"webers"
as they were/are.Don't recall if they are progessive manual,or Omnirizon vac. secondary type.
Yes, the cliffy 4bbl. is not for your A100,unless you're going racy w/it. They claim the dual
2bbl. setup is the best they've tested,they may be correct on that,but I don't know of any
-body who has run that "in the field"yet. You could be the first!!

 

[DelrayA100]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to comment and make suggestions...it really helps. I've decided on the Clifford 225 combo package, which includes the intake manifold, headers, weber 2bbl DGAS 38/38 mm venturies, air cleaner and all the misc parts. I'm taking the suggestion of running a 2 into 1 exhaust with magnaflow or flowmaster (not sure yet).

So, the next thing I need to do is decide on a electronic ignition, upgraded spark plug wires, rotor/cap, etc. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[Killer6]

So you are out and about again in the ride?Wonderful.Lost track of the
thread,what was the culprit in the fuel system?Not wanting to jack the thread,just
the cliff notes version.

I am going to drop the tank this winter , would you buy a new one , or get the old one redone?

I paid $149 if memory serves in '91/'92 for a new tank for my '72 swinger,
if you can get one from Vans for $108 today for yours,I wouldn't bat an eye.Every "redone"
tank I've handled weighed 3X what it did to start with,and I don't trust any pour epoxies w/
todays alcohol spiked fuel long term either.

 

[Brandon Weaver]

So, the next thing I need to do is decide on a electronic ignition, upgraded spark plug wires, rotor/cap, etc. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Sure. Buy the most expensive product you can find from the least reputable source you can imagine. Oh, and make sure it is something that is completely the opposite of what you would need for your application.

Good luck :banghead:

 

[DelrayA100]

Sure. Buy the most expensive product you can find from the least reputable source you can imagine. Oh, and make sure it is something that is completely the opposite of what you would need for your application.

Good luck :banghead:

I decided to "can" the Clifford Performance Products and opted for a the suggestion of a bigger diameter exhaust, 2bbl carb and electronic ignition. My exhaust guy is ill so I'll have to wait on him to get better, but will start the 2bbl and HEI conversion in the interim. What luck have you had with 2bbl carbs?

PS - I actually placed the order with Clifford and was given the run around, for weeks, on shipment. Got a BAD FEELING about the company, so cancelled the order.

Thank you to all for the, continued, advice

 

[Charrlie_S]

PS - I actually placed the order with Clifford and was given the run around, for weeks, on shipment. Got a BAD FEELING about the company, so cancelled the order.

Thank you to all for the, continued, advice

This is what many were trying to tell you.

PS: are you aware of the Mopar show at Don Garlits museum, this weekend? I know there will be some slant powered vehicles there. I will be there, but not sure if I will have my slant powered 66 Valiant ready or not. Family medical problems, have limited my time to work on it.
PM me and I will give you my cell number.

 

[kesteb]

PS - I actually placed the order with Clifford and was given the run around, for weeks, on shipment. Got a BAD FEELING about the company, so cancelled the order.

You have to realize how Clifford operates. There is no large warehouse full of parts waiting to be shipped out. They take orders, collect money and when enough orders are in, they do a production run. Depending on where you are in that cycle, you may get your parts next week or 6 months from now,

The Cliffiord 4300 4v manifold is an excellent manifold. much better then the Offenhauser 4v manifold. That with a Edelbrock 500 avs makes for a good street/strip setup.

 

[Killer6]

The Cliffiord 4300 4v manifold is an excellent manifold. much better then the Offenhauser 4v manifold. That with a Edelbrock 500 avs makes for a good street/strip setup.

That's funny, because just about every experienced slanty runner here would
disagree w/that statement.The cliffy is a better top end runner,and the offy is more torque
friendly for the street,.... have you looked at what the OP is driving?We're not talking an RPM
needy app here,and while the AVS is a fine carb,it is still more than he'll ever use w/o other
mods.Mainly increasing valve size and cam specs,so unless he's planning to go there......

 

[Red Phantom]

Im the new guy here. I just got a '61 Dodge Lancer 775, and have been experiencing starting problems. It had a bad negative ground btty cable, I changed it plus new external volt reg. Came with new alternator. it won't crank the starter unless I use my carved up portable lithium starter on btty. It runs fine unless I use electrical lites, etc. Dies and won't start w/o boost from portable starter. I took it to O'Reillys, no agreement on next step. Thanks for any help.

 

[Killer6]

Im the new guy here. I just got a '61 Dodge Lancer 775, and have been experiencing starting problems.

Welcome to FABO red, you need to start you're own thread in the
electrical forum,where those of us who r well versed in such can help w/o hi-jacking this one.
A couple of members routinely check that forum and have diagrams etc. at the ready,so head
over and get posting! Just a quikie, the battery is new/good?An old alt. will struggle to deal
w/ oper. loads AND a bad batt. draw together. Good luck!

 

[Johnny Dart]

After reading this thread, all I can say is there is alot of .org Kool Aid drinking going on.

If I had that van, I would put a single free flowing exhaust on it.
Upgrade to electronic ignition. Mopar of course.
Give it a couple degrees of advance.
Jet the 1 bbl up a couple sizes.
And drive the piss out of it.:burnout:

And then I would put a 360 in it........What do you say Rusty :thumblef:

 

[momoparman]

If you decide to go back to a four barrel set up consider Aussie Speed.

They make Clifford and their products look like what they are. Antiquated but interesting artifacts. Not saying that's bad but A.S. is a modern interpretation that is an improvement over the original.

The object of using the six would be to get decent power on the road and still get decent gas mileage no? Were close to 200 hp and getting 24 mpg. I know that seems lame compared to a V8, but a six on the highway that can breath will keep up with 90% of the cars on the road..... if your driving the speed limit anyway.

http://www.aussiespeedshop.com/shipping/

If your goal is to do burnouts and run quickly from light to light then V8 is the way to go. I like all motors no matter the displacement so I am biased towards everything.

Good luck with your build.

 

[Charrlie_S]

That Aussie Speed intake wil not fit in a van.

 

[momoparman]

Probably should measure first before you shoot it down. It fits with no issues in our bay and were still using the factory air cleaner for the one barrel. Granted it's been modified to fit the 4 but the location is not that far off from stock maybe an 1" or 2 max. It's slightly taller due to the carb but that can be dealt with via modification of the air cleaner base.

 

[kesteb]

That's funny, because just about every experienced slanty runner here would
disagree w/that statement.The cliffy is a better top end runner,and the offy is more torque
friendly for the street,.... have you looked at what the OP is driving?We're not talking an RPM
needy app here,and while the AVS is a fine carb,it is still more than he'll ever use w/o other
mods.Mainly increasing valve size and cam specs,so unless he's planning to go there......

Not in my experience.

'73 Duster with rebuilt stock 225. The engine was set up with cast iron Super Six manifold along with a Autolite 2100. I changed out the Super Six for an Offenhauser with the same carburator. No changes in ETs and no change in the butt-o-meter. Conclusion, the Offenhauser manifold is no better then a Super Six.

'65 Dart, mildly built 225. I ran that same Offenhauser with the 500 AVS. It ran good, changed over to the Clifford with the same carburator.I gained 2 tenths on the track and there was a noticable change in the butt-o-meter with better response through out the entire rpm range. Conclusion, the Clifford is a better over all manifold.

I also drive my Dart daily. So i have extensive experience with this combo.

The 500 AVS is a very capable carburator. The primariy throttle bores are the same size as the BBD. The secondary air flap is controlled by air flow, on my Dart, it starts opening around 3500 rpms, which is slightly over 70 mph on the freeway. On a van they may never open, which would make the carb a BBD with extras. Also the AVS is a new carburator, calibrated for todays gasoline. You can actually buy parts for it so you can tune it.

It is not a crappy 40 year old remanufactured piece of junk, with a worn out throttle shafts. Unles you run across NOS one, but then it would be calibrated for '70s gasoline without any way to tune it.

But then the "experts" know better. Especially the one's at Clifford how are trying to sell an oddball Weber IDA on there 4300 4v manifold.