Sway-A-Way Torsion Bars

[74Dart318]

I have seen a few threads on the Sway-A-Way torsion bars. I haven't read much about people installing them or any reviews.

I thought they looks pretty nice and wanted to try them out. So I ordered a set of 1.14" bars.
MOPAR “A” Body Torsion Bar Set, 1961-1976 – Sway-A-Way | Racing Technology

Was working on installing these on my 1974 Swinger over the weekend. Unfortunately am unsuccessful so far. These bars appear to be clocked incorrectly as far as I can tell. I was also installing some QA1 LCAs. Just to make sure these were not the issue I tried installing with my old LCAs as well, no luck.

Looks like the PST 1.03" bars I am replacing are clocked at 20°. For the Left (Driver) side the LCA end is clocked 20° CCW compared to the crossmember end. The right (Passenger) side is the mirror of this.

For comparison the SAW 1.14" bars are clocked at 15° but in the opposite direction (or you could say they are clocked at 45° in the same direction I guess).

Since I could not get them installed I set them up on the bench to show what I am seeing.

 

[74Dart318]

Here is the Left PST Bar set up in the vice same as how they end up in the car crossmember

Here is the LCA end of the PST Left bar. Looks normal. Adjustment bolt is close to halfway inserted.

For comparison here is the Left SAW 1.14" bar

LCA end with the SAW bar

You can see how far off the torsion bar adjustment is off. Would cause the adjustment bolt to be inserted all the way. Leaving no room for adjustment and a tall right height. Plus the LCA would hit the frame.

Here is the other option with the adjustment bolt backed all the way out.

 

[abodyjoe]

pete at bergman autocraft sells them.. i'm sure he could give you legit reviews..
[SIZE=4][B][URL='https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/members/gmachinedartgt.2759/']GMachineDartGT[/URL][/B][/SIZE]

 

[74Dart318]

The Right (Passenger) side is the same story but mirrored. Here are some pictures.

 

[74Dart318]

Here are some pictures of the Right (Passenger) side in the car.

Adjustment bolt all the way inserted

Adjustment bolt backed out completely

 

[74Dart318]

pete at bergman autocraft sells them.. i'm sure he could give you legit reviews..
[SIZE=4][B][URL='https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/members/gmachinedartgt.2759/']GMachineDartGT[/URL][/B][/SIZE]

Appreciate the info. He has helped me in the past and I have ordered from him. That is a good idea.

I am waiting to hear back from SAW. They have responded to be a couple times but I sent over some of these photos and waiting to hear what they say.

To me it looks like they are clocked in the opposite direction that they should be. If they were clocked 15° in the other direction similar to PST then they would work great.

 

[72bluNblu]

The clocking on the larger bar should not be the same as the smaller one. The 1.03” bars have like a 230 lb/in rate, the 1.14’s are more like 350 lbs. The car will not twist the larger bars as much, so the LCA position when fully unloaded has to be closer to the intended ride height.

The adjusters on my 1.12” Firm Feel bars only use a few threads to put my car at ride height.

 

[74Dart318]

The clocking on the larger bar should not be the same as the smaller one. The 1.03” bars have like a 230 lb/in rate, the 1.14’s are more like 350 lbs. The car will not twist the larger bars as much, so the LCA position when fully unloaded has to be closer to the intended ride height.

The adjusters on my 1.12” Firm Feel bars only use a few threads to put my car at ride height.

That makes sense to me. But when I tried leaving the adjustment bolt almost completely backed out the LCA will not even return to a height that I can bolt the shock absorber in before it starts lifting the car.

 

[74Dart318]

Here is a photo of the left (driver) side when I first installed the QA1 LCA with the SAW bar. I have the jack under the LCA trying to lift it up so I can install the shock but you can see the distance between the LCA and shock. It was already lifting the car at this point.

 

[72bluNblu]

It looks like you’re installing the LCA per the factory instructions with the LCA hanging all the way down. With the really large torsion bars that doesn’t usually work. They need to be installed with the angle much closer to ride height, so you may be installing the LCA one hex flat from where it needs to be

That’s especially easy to do with the QA1 LCA’s, because unlike the factory LCA’s they clear the K frame and will hang straight down, making more hex flat positions possible. I did that on my Challenger when I installed tubular LCA’s and 1.12” bars. Followed the FSM and clocked the LCA’s wrong.

 

[74Dart318]

It looks like you’re installing the LCA per the factory instructions with the LCA hanging all the way down. With the really large torsion bars that doesn’t usually work. They need to be installed with the angle much closer to ride height, so you may be installing the LCA one hex flat from where it needs to be

That’s especially easy to do with the QA1 LCA’s, because unlike the factory LCA’s they clear the K frame and will hang straight down, making more hex flat positions possible. I did that on my Challenger when I installed tubular LCA’s and 1.12” bars. Followed the FSM and clocked the LCA’s wrong.

I tried that as well. You can see in post #5 above. Although that picture is the passenger side with the original LCA. This causes the adjustment bolt to be insterted all the way basically and then the LCA will contact the frame.

Here are some additional pictures.

 

[72bluNblu]

Gotcha. One question though, why are you running the adjuster all the way in? It looks like you have a ton of room between the bumpstop and the frame in that picture. I assume that’s unloaded, but with the suspension loaded you only need like 1” from bumpstop to frame.

I’m not sure these bars are clocked correctly, but large bars can be kinda tricky because they end up having a pretty narrow ride height adjustment range. They’re probably clocked in such a way that the car is supposed to be lowered, so, if you’re trying to get stock ride height you may have issues.

 

[74Dart318]

Gotcha. One question though, why are you running the adjuster all the way in? It looks like you have a ton of room between the bumpstop and the frame in that picture. I assume that’s unloaded, but with the suspension loaded you only need like 1” from bumpstop to frame.

I’m not sure these bars are clocked correctly, but large bars can be kinda tricky because they end up having a pretty narrow ride height adjustment range. They’re probably clocked in such a way that the car is supposed to be lowered, so, if you’re trying to get stock ride height you may have issues.

I just put the adjustment bolt all the way in for reference. Doesn't really matter if the LCA can be installed in this position if it hits the frame as soon as the suspension starts compressing. I am not sure what the nomenclature is for the portion of the LCA that the adjustment bolt pushes on (in yellow below), but that part will hit the frame once suspension get compressed in this position.

Mind you, my frame is already 'clearanced' some in this spot due to an issue with my suspension years back when I found out my LCA bolt hole in the K-member was broken and the LCA was hitting the frame. I just don't see how the bar could be designed to have the LCA this close to the frame.

 

[72bluNblu]

The adjusting lever.

 

[74Dart318]

The adjusting lever. Yeah, but if the adjuster isn’t screwed all the way in the lever won’t “stick up” that far. If the adjusting bolt was only screwed in half way, or like in my case only a few threads in, the adjusting lever would be much closer to the body of the LCA, so it wouldn’t hit anything

The adjusting lever is not being pushed on in those photos above. That is just the position it ends up in due to the clocking of the bar. I am holding the LCA up with my hand just to show that is where the LCA ends up with the adjustment bolt all the way in.

Here it is on the bench

 

[72bluNblu]

Sorry, I was editing my post. You’re right, the adjusting lever won’t move as it’s fixed to the socket, the body of the LCA moves with the adjuster. Haven’t had enough coffee yet apparently.

I’m not sure you understand exactly how little those LCA’s will move with 1.14” bars though. Frame to bump stop on my car is slightly under 1”, which translates to about 2” up travel at the spindles. That’s almost the factory amount of compression travel.

So what I’m saying is that adjusting lever may never hit the frame, even in that position.

If you set the adjuster for your intended ride height, you’ll probably see that the bumpstop will hit the frame before the adjusting lever does. If the clocking on the bars is correct anyway.

 

[74Dart318]

I believe the adjustment lever is larger in that area near the frame on the QA1 LCAs too. I guess I will have to throw the passenger side in again with the adjustment bolt backed out and try that position. Seeing as how that is only ~3" from the pivot point it would move a lot less compared to the end where the spindle connects. When I was installing it though it just seems odd to me that you would design the bars to sit in a position that allows such a small amount of space before it would hit the frame.

 

[72bluNblu]

I believe the adjustment lever is larger in that area near the frame on the QA1 LCAs too. I guess I will have to throw the passenger side in again with the adjustment bolt backed out and try that position. Seeing as how that is only ~3" from the pivot point it would move a lot less compared to the end where the spindle connects. When I was installing it though it just seems odd to me that you would design the bars to sit in a position that allows such a small amount of space before it would hit the frame.

It’s just the nature of the really large torsion bars. They twist very little with the weight of the car, so they go from fully loaded to completely unloaded in a very short distance on the adjusters. The clocking is then really important, because you basically get what the hex offset gives you.

For example, on my car my adjusters only have 2 full turns of the adjuster from where the adjusters make contact with the lever at full extension. That’s it. I run a 3/8” tall lower bumpstop and a 2.75” tall upper bumpstop, otherwise the LCA comes off the adjuster at full extension. I have about the same 4-5” of travel as factory, but I had to recenter it around my ride height. At compression the hard parts barely clear the frame, and without the upper bumpstop full extension means the adjusters are completely free.

Hopefully you’ve sent some of these pictures to sway-away, obviously they should know if those bars have the right specs. But the large bars can be tricky for setting ride height. PST messed it up originally with their 1.03” bars, they came with 0 offset and you couldn’t actually get the car to factory ride height, only lowered was an option. They changed the offset after a couple years to what they have now. Since people that run 1.14” bars are usually doing it for AutoX or road racing those cars are all lowered, so that’s how the bars are clocked.

 

[74Dart318]

It’s just the nature of the really large torsion bars. They twist very little with the weight of the car, so they go from fully loaded to completely unloaded in a very short distance on the adjusters. The clocking is then really important, because you basically get what the hex offset gives you.

For example, on my car my adjusters only have like 2-3 thread showing above the adjusters. That’s it. I run a 3/8” tall lower bumpstop and a 2.75” tall upper bumpstop, otherwise the LCA comes off the adjuster at full extension. I have about the same 4-5” of travel as factory, but I had to recenter it around my ride height. At compression the hard parts barely clear the frame, and without the upper bumpstop full extension means the adjusters are completely free.

Hopefully you’ve sent some of these pictures to sway-away, obviously they should know if those bars have the right specs. But the large bars can be tricky for setting ride height. PST messed it up originally with their 1.03” bars, they came with 0 offset and you couldn’t actually get the car to factory ride height, only lowered was an option. They changed the offset after a couple years to what they have now. Since people that run 1.14” bars are usually doing it for AutoX or road racing those cars are all lowered, so that’s how the bars are clocked.

Appreciate the input. Part of the reason of posting was to get other eyes on it because it just didn't seem right. Hoping SAW will respond today.

I do have the car lowered and plan to keep it lowered or go even lower. That is the reason I am going with larger bars. I have used the car on the SCCA autoX course a few times and will go again. It is fun.

 

[72bluNblu]

Appreciate the input. Part of the reason of posting was to get other eyes on it because it just didn't seem right. Hoping SAW will respond today.

I do have the car lowered and plan to keep it lowered or go even lower. That is the reason I am going with larger bars. I have used the car on the SCCA autoX course a few times and will go again. It is fun.

Awesome!

Yeah hopefully sway away gets back to you. I’ve talked to them before and they were super helpful. Pictures on the internet can be kinda deceiving for angles and clearance, but based on your pictures those bars may not be wrong. When the set up gets more extreme you don’t have much wiggle room.

This is my suspension at full extension, you can see the bump stops and the fairly shallow angle on the LCA for being at full extension. It’s with the QA1’s so it looks a little different at the adjuster lever. I have Firm Feel 1.12” torsion bars, so the clocking may be a little different

 

[74Dart318]

Your suspension looks very familiar to mine haha. I have the same shocks and UCA, even the same upper bump stop. Soon to have the same LCAs. Not sure what you are using for Sway bars, I have Hellwig. I am using Hotchkis for the rest of the suspension basically.

From your picture it looks like the torsion bar adjustment lever has a lot more clearance than what I am getting.

 

[cojohnso]

Damn guys. You two hurt my brain trying to keep up with your conversation? I have had thoughts of lowering stance by an upgraded torsion bar setup. You guys confirmed my fears that I could easily screw this up. I have even considered a full QA1 type suspension upgrade (That of course is then not comparing apples to apples.) on a Pro Street E-body build. This thread certainly gives some incite on what to expect.

 

[74Dart318]

Damn guys. You two hurt my brain trying to keep up with your conversation? I have had thoughts of lowering stance by an upgraded torsion bar setup. You guys confirmed my fears that I could easily screw this up. I have even considered a full QA1 type suspension upgrade (That of course is then not comparing apples to apples.) on a Pro Street E-body build. This thread certainly gives some incite on what to expect.

Hope this thread doesn't discourage you or others from lowering your car or changing the stance. This is the first time I have really had an issue with upgrading components and lowering the car. Should hopefully be resolved easily too.

 

[cojohnso]

Hope this thread doesn't discourage you or others from lowering your car or changing the stance. This is the first time I have really had an issue with upgrading components and lowering the car. Should hopefully be resolved easily too.

It does look like that it's a solid lowering solution. As well as component upgrade and/or replacement of aging component parts. We all love killing more than one bird with a single stone.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Assemble the suspension uppers, lowers, and spindle. back the adjustment screw down so the adjustment lever is sitting on the threaded flat with the ball of the adjuster just inside of the lever. Take that large upper bump stop out and install a factory one or drop the suspension down to where that bump stop would be. At this position the bar should slide in. This is the way I install every bar I use. You may have to go up or down a tad but not much at all