Thinking of going BB...

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Sinister.

Sinister.

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Thinking of going BB in my dart, but I have to many options.

What I currently own:
400 BB (not sure on year but I want to say it has a 2bbl intake on it)
My dart (currently 318/727 drums all the way around, but I have KH disc setup almost ready to go on with sway bar and a little bigger torsion bars)

What I can get:
383/727 (for free. I'm not 100% sure on the condition. It's been in a field for quite some time. It has 1 aluminum head on it, the other was destroyed during removal. I'm not sure if the short block will be salvageable or not because of exposure to the elements but it and the 727 are free.)

I also have the hookups on 4x 440's unless they have moved since I've last talked to the owners. None of those will be free (what should I expect to pay?) I believe 2 of them to be complete (running?) motors and 2 of them are disassembled (again, I'm not sure on the years)

What I want:
I'm not sure what to reasonably expect. I know I can't have it all, but I would like to build the motor/trans and get it rolling on a tight budget. Ideally, I'd say 11's would be awesome though it will see more street than strip, so a little reliability would be nice.

What should I expect to spend to preform this swap?

Which engine would be the best to build? (build ideas?)

Is it possible to keep power steering and use headers? (has anybody experimented with converting a modern (non submerged) pump to vbelt drive?)

And before I get a bunch of "want 11's? go SB, it's cheaper." Let me add that I also want BB for the cool factory, the sound, and so my car is setup for a more radical setup in the future.
 
The power steering will work with the headers.
Start pricing the headers out, they are not cheap.
With the 400 or 383 I have heard of people using B body headers with a little tweaking. won't work with the 440.
Schumaker has mounts to do the conversion.

The free 383 might be good for spare parts. Would pick that up, just because it's free.
Upgrade the brakes, You will want this to stop.
Think about upgrading the rear also, if it doesn't already have an 8 3/4" rear.
Also, you will need to find the correct drive shaft.
 
I say rebuild the 400 you have and pick up the 727 off the 383.. you could always stroke the 400 in the future.
 
Mopower71 said:
The power steering will work with the headers.
Start pricing the headers out, they are not cheap.
With the 400 or 383 I have heard of people using B body headers with a little tweaking. won't work with the 440.
Schumaker has mounts to do the conversion.

The free 383 might be good for spare parts. Would pick that up, just because it's free.
Upgrade the brakes, You will want this to stop.
Think about upgrading the rear also, if it doesn't already have an 8 3/4" rear.
Also, you will need to find the correct drive shaft.
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Yeah, I didn't figure headers would be cheap.

In regards to the 383, that's exactly what I was thinking. Even if the parts won't work for what I go with, I could always sell it to help fund the project.

I'm working on cleaning and painting everything right now.. even with the 318/727 the drums are scary!

I have an 8 3/4" almost ready to go in, but I'm going to have to have a drive shaft made as it is so I might hold off for a little bit.
 
Plik said:
I say rebuild the 400 you have and pick up the 727 off the 383.. you could always stroke the 400 in the future.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it take quite a bit to get them to respectable power levels though?
 
I guess that all depends on how tight your budget is, but I would think 450+ hp wouldn't be too hard to get out of it
 
Plik said:
I guess that all depends on how tight your budget is, but I would think 450+ hp wouldn't be too hard to get out of it
Click to expand...

Fairly tight.. There will be a lot of bartering.

As far as a number goes... we'll say 2k
 
If you go with one of the BB a-body headers, they will be $600 and up.
That will eat up a lot of the budget, if you go that route.
 
I would look at the 451 build.
 
Build the 400 since you have it they have alot of potential. Also any free parts pick them up heck there free. You didnt mention what year car. But the 73+ disc set up. Also people say the centerlink and such from the newer darts works better with the big block. So if you can score a donor 73+ with disc take the whole front suspension and swap it over. Frame connectors, conversion mounts.
 
I paid $525 for my uncoated Schumacher headers and painted them with VHT paint. I think it cost me another $30 to get them shipped to me

They have the mounts too but the transdapts are half the price and all you have to do is cut the corner off the DS mount to clear the oil pump
 
StrokerScamp said:
I would look at the 451 build.
Click to expand...

For about his 2K budget? And he still needs headers, which is a bank breaker no matter what.

The 400 can be built up very well for no more than a stock rebuild would cost minus the price for better pistons. The 451 is a good thought though!
The 400 mearly lacks compresion.
 
451 and a budget dont mix to well. what year is the 383? might have a steel crank, grab that to use in the 400 you have. name your total budget and we can all try to give you ideas.
 
72ScampTramp said:
Build the 400 since you have it they have alot of potential. Also any free parts pick them up heck there free. You didnt mention what year car. But the 73+ disc set up. Also people say the centerlink and such from the newer darts works better with the big block. So if you can score a donor 73+ with disc take the whole front suspension and swap it over. Frame connectors, conversion mounts.
Click to expand...

It's a '72 Dart. I think I know of a dart at a local yard that's not got much left except suspension.. and I'm pretty sure it's a '73. Might have to give the guy a call.
 
jamesdart said:
451 and a budget dont mix to well. what year is the 383? might have a steel crank, grab that to use in the 400 you have. name your total budget and we can all try to give you ideas.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure on the 383 but since somebody put aluminum heads on it, I would think that it would have a decent crank.

As previously mentioned, budget is roughly 2K
 
rumblefish360 said:
For about his 2K budget? And he still needs headers, which is a bank breaker no matter what.

The 400 can be built up very well for no more than a stock rebuild would cost minus the price for better pistons. The 451 is a good thought though!
The 400 mearly lacks compresion.
Click to expand...
I haven't tried it myself, but if he goes with a low block, the b body cheapy headers are an option. Unsure about p/s with them though.
This would relieve some of the budget for other things.

If you are handy with fabricating, you can make the mounts. Jim Lusk has done it.
 
BBD.com has a bunch of picturtes for the cheaper header useage.
 
rumblefish360 said:
For about his 2K budget? And he still needs headers, which is a bank breaker no matter what.

The 400 can be built up very well for no more than a stock rebuild would cost minus the price for better pistons. The 451 is a good thought though!
The 400 mearly lacks compresion.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think he could do it. If he uses stock heads and cams it conservatively, there's no need for adjustable valve gear. Money saved. Stock 440 crank. Money saved. Stock 440 rods. Money saved. True, the crank work will cost more because the counterweights have to be turned down, but other than that, the short block work would be the same as a 440. I would take for granted he'd want it balanced either way, so he'd probably spend that money anyway. Pistons are the same cost 440/451. The 400 will literally take .100" off the heads to get compression worth a snot. then, he'll have to add on the cost of milling the intake. The piston change would take care of that. Remember, the stock 400 CR blueprints out to about 7.6:1. That's ALOT of territory to make up for with milling. I've researched in depth. Yeah, he could build the 400. But look at the cost of the 400 KB piston VS the 451 KB piston. The 400 pistons are stupid expensive. He can get a 451 piston for about 269 bucks. the 4oo pistons are around or over 400 bucks. That's nuts. If he can luck up on a set of heads that he can get by with only lapping the valves in on and replace the springs himself where the guides and valves are in good shape, he can come out pretty cheap on the heads. I've seen a lot of heads that will clean up nice like that. I have two sets right now. The 451 can be a pretty inexpensive build if you do your homework.
 
StrokerScamp said:
Yeah I think he could do it. If he uses stock heads and cams it conservatively, there's no need for adjustable valve gear. Money saved. Stock 440 crank. Money saved. Stock 440 rods. Money saved. True, the crank work will cost more because the counterweights have to be turned down, but other than that, the short block work would be the same as a 440. I would take for granted he'd want it balanced either way, so he'd probably spend that money anyway. Pistons are the same cost 440/451. The 400 will literally take .100" off the heads to get compression worth a snot. then, he'll have to add on the cost of milling the intake. The piston change would take care of that. Remember, the stock 400 CR blueprints out to about 7.6:1. That's ALOT of territory to make up for with milling. I've researched in depth. Yeah, he could build the 400. But look at the cost of the 400 KB piston VS the 451 KB piston. The 400 pistons are stupid expensive. He can get a 451 piston for about 269 bucks. the 4oo pistons are around or over 400 bucks. That's nuts. If he can luck up on a set of heads that he can get by with only lapping the valves in on and replace the springs himself where the guides and valves are in good shape, he can come out pretty cheap on the heads. I've seen a lot of heads that will clean up nice like that. I have two sets right now. The 451 can be a pretty inexpensive build if you do your homework.
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I like the idea but it would depend on how easily I could get a 440 crank. I'm not sure if any of those guys would be willing to sell me just a crank.

If I get time this weekend I'm going to try to pull the 400 out of the shed and into the garage and see if I can't get the top end off to see what I can find. I'm also going to see if I can't get my buddy to take me back to get the 383/727 so I can have a better idea of what I've got to work with.

Semi-related question, how much of a difference does a 3 angle valve job make?
 
I would go with one of the 440s he has at his disposal. Leave it stock as can be and put a pretty big cam in it. I would put some money in the heads. Mill, valve job, etc. Then I would pick up a set of used 440 Hooker fenderwell headers, last set I bought were $75 dollars. He could also go the B-body hipo manifold route. I figure 2K isnt a reasonable budget to have something of quality, however it can be done on the cheap. So 2K in my opinion would rule out any internal engine work. Maybe a cam but thats it. I would look for a 440 that runs real well, it will be worth it. Pretty much a stock hipo 440 goes 12s in an a-body.
 
Sinister. said:
I like the idea but it would depend on how easily I could get a 440 crank. I'm not sure if any of those guys would be willing to sell me just a crank.

If I get time this weekend I'm going to try to pull the 400 out of the shed and into the garage and see if I can't get the top end off to see what I can find. I'm also going to see if I can't get my buddy to take me back to get the 383/727 so I can have a better idea of what I've got to work with.

Semi-related question, how much of a difference does a 3 angle valve job make?
Click to expand...

Makes no difference whatsoever under 5K RPM. None. So really a waste for a street motor. there are 440 steel cranks on ebay right now pretty reasonably.
 
$2000 is awfully tight for a big block build. You're going to have to shave costs wherever possible to achieve this budget. Shop for the Schumacher kit. Look for a good deal. I think I paid $75 for them.

B-body HP manifolds will work also in lieu of headers. I went the 451 route and I ain't lookin back. It runs nice and snappy. Plenty of torque and it rev's fast.
 
I have ZERO immediate money in the following. Pistons, COMPLETE 400 engine, 727 transmission, 187 oil pan, headers, 906 heads (four pair) 915 head, 452 heads (2 pair). I traded for all that and then some. I can garrantee you I will have less than 2K cash in my 451 and not cut a single corner. Course, it's gonna have iron heads if you consider that a cut corner. Necessity is the mother of invention. Get creative.
 
Yeah. I've got a little bit to trade and I'm sure I'm going to have to. like 3 sets of J heads (probably only cores...) and several complete motors.

I really like the idea of a fast revving and high torque. I'm going to have to see what else I can dig up in the garage.

I suppose it's always an option to stick with manifolds for now then when funds come my way swap to headers.. even though it'll probably be kind of a pain lol

How much would a 440 crank need turned down?

After a little browsing I found
440 crank mains - 2.75"
400 crank mains - 2.625"

With a 0.125 cut needed, couldn't I almost find a 440 crank that spun a bearing that nobody really wants and use that?
 
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