What complete drivetrain package would you be interested in???

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
FABO Vendor
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Good morning all,

Can't think of a better spot for this to go, if it needs moved i apologize.

Anyways, As the mopar faithful, we don't currently have the luxury of affordable driveline packages, that the GM boys do. for example, there are very basic smallblock GM 350's equipped with a th350 available in a drop in, carb to pan to tailshaft, configuration for less than $4600 from popular vendors.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you can get a drop in GM LS conversion kit, equipped with controller and trans for approx 12K, yet no one had done this yet with the late model Hemi (mostly to cost, and lack of aftermarket support)

so my question is...What combo(s) are we starving for the most? Say a vendor could put together a package with a crate 300 horse, carbed 5.9 LA or Magnum, with a crate 904 trans and converter, and offer it for say..5,500-6k? would that peak any interest as a complete drop in driveline for someone with a clean 6 cyl car just looking for a mild v8 swap? or a tired old 318 and slipping trans?

Or if there was an oem (late model) 390 horse hemi swap kit with a T-56, TKO 500, or RH series 4 speed, available with everything minus cooling and fuel systems for 12-13K? would that excite the hemi swap crowd?

Just fishing here as i have the opportunity to possibly offer some of these options, but i'd like to gauge interest before I dive in full force.

Please keep the thread on topic please. I'm not asking for opinions on crate engines in general, or opinions of late model hemi's, i'm asking if these "kits" existed, at those ballpark price levels, would there be any interest? Also these would be reputable branded items, with new parts. And if you have a better kit combo idea, i'm all ears.

also, i can assure you The LS swap kits with a 430 horse LS3 sell like hotcakes at 12K. and the base 350 SBC with 350 trans also sell amazing at their 4,600 price. Please keep in mind..not everyone wants to build their own engine, not everyone wants a 13:1 racing engine, just like not everyone needs a late model swap when a good old LA or magnum engine is all they are looking for.

Lastly...I'm a respectful person and won't be name dropping my company in random threads specifically associated to other vendors...please don't jump in here just to say "call XXXX at *** company...he can get you what you need". We all work for our money, and we all can be courteous.

I'm simply looking to help those who would be looking for something similar to the GM "connect and cruise" packages, for the consumer who doesn't necessarily want to crawl through junkyards, rebuild tired old engines, or wants to get the entire driveline taken care of with a price incentive. (with a 24 month warranty)


Anyways let me know! thanks to anyone that reads through my nonsense, and i hope this type of thread is ok on here.
 
Hemi swap kit sounds interesting , trouble is the small market for anything Mopar . Great thing if you can swing it though , especially the 24 month warranty .
 
jerry6 said:
Hemi swap kit sounds interesting , trouble is the small market for anything Mopar . Great thing if you can swing it though , especially the 24 month warranty .
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Thanks! I know the market is smaller than GM obviously, and it'll have to be priced higher naturally, but i think it's pretty typical that by the time you have something rebuild, or start piecing things together for anything other than a full on race application, you start to realize that the "crate" price wasn't so bad. especially for something new and clean, with a warranty, and minimal headaches.
 
In the future I will be in the market for a 5.2 or 5.9 magnum as I want to go EFI, looking for around 350-400 hp/torque internally balanced.
 
I think if you offered a 3G Hemi conversion with a choice of trans in the $12-15K range you'd have some takers.

The mild built 360/904 combo for the price you're talking about might get the interest of those who are wanting to do a swap from a slant or a 318 without breaking the bank.

One of the things you have to keep in mind, though, is one of the reasons the LSx and 350 combo are moving out the door is because of people building belly button hot rods. You know, the '32 Ford body kits and what have you. I can see those being big movers. (Of course, that all comes down to what I've said a lot. Thousands of dollars in the body and paint, thousands more in the chrome everything, thousands more in the interior and then you go out and spend the least amount of money on the generic sbc.)
 
Getting a rebuilt engine and trans for a cheap price is one thing. Selling them for a profit is another. I could put together a simple and effective package and/or engine / trans combo to sell easy. The profit margin would be very small.

That would leave me with making a million at a dollar profit to get any where. To actually make a buck at such a thing would require me to do a lot of them and actually sell them at a rate conducive to me to want to continue. I just don't think the market is there nor is it worth the toil to do so.

Everybody cries on wanting cheap but explosive results that aren't possible, and God forbid profitable. I see a low pay off.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Getting a rebuilt engine and trans for a cheap price is one thing. Selling them for a profit is another. I could put together a simple and effective package and/or engine / trans combo to sell easy. The profit margin would be very small.

That would leave me with making a million at a dollar profit to get any where. To actually make a buck at such a thing would require me to do a lot of them and actually sell them at a rate conducive to me to want to continue. I just don't think the market is there nor is it worth the toil to do so.

Everybody cries on wanting cheap but explosive results that aren't possible, and God forbid profitable. I see a low pay off.
Click to expand...

Which is where I see the reason the 350/350 and the LSx packages have a high profit. The boneyards are full of $100 engine/trans combinations and there are still, literally millions of cheap, rebuildable cores. That, along with the bellybutton "hot rodders," means a built in market.
 
I'd like a hellcat/T56 magumn package....or even a EFI 440 crate motor/T56 magnum package....sadly, i couldnt afford either
 
rumblefish360 said:
Getting a rebuilt engine and trans for a cheap price is one thing. Selling them for a profit is another. I could put together a simple and effective package and/or engine / trans combo to sell easy. The profit margin would be very small.

That would leave me with making a million at a dollar profit to get any where. To actually make a buck at such a thing would require me to do a lot of them and actually sell them at a rate conducive to me to want to continue. I just don't think the market is there nor is it worth the toil to do so.

Everybody cries on wanting cheap but explosive results that aren't possible, and God forbid profitable. I see a low pay off.
Click to expand...

I've got the volume, and the margins. Thats the benefit of being a large scale WD opposed to a smaller operation that doesn't have the volume to get WD pricing. We won't be at 40% margins.lol no doubt about that. But once i get the kits put together, and start moving some product i think it will be worth doing. thanks for looking out though!
 
ramenth said:
I think if you offered a 3G Hemi conversion with a choice of trans in the $12-15K range you'd have some takers.

The mild built 360/904 combo for the price you're talking about might get the interest of those who are wanting to do a swap from a slant or a 318 without breaking the bank.

One of the things you have to keep in mind, though, is one of the reasons the LSx and 350 combo are moving out the door is because of people building belly button hot rods. You know, the '32 Ford body kits and what have you. I can see those being big movers. (Of course, that all comes down to what I've said a lot. Thousands of dollars in the body and paint, thousands more in the chrome everything, thousands more in the interior and then you go out and spend the least amount of money on the generic sbc.)
Click to expand...

Noted for sure! surprisingly most of the SBC combo's we sell make it into GM vehicles. approx 50 a month. sure we have some roadsters using LS3's or a kit car with a SBC, or vice versa, that market will always be GM central.

the 3G hemi i think is a no brainer. once we start talking a retro roller swap into an LA, and efi, and decent flowing heads, we're into 3g hemi money anyways.
 
I like the idea of the 3G Hemi, with the electronics to run it. Some flexibility in the electronics so you can modify your engine would be great. I think the biggest shortcoming with the 3G swap is no overdrive. That's the main reason to have a modern drive line.
 
A lot depends on marketing , if you can get those hot rod builders to consider a Mopar engine that would make the difference . All of them have Chev and Ford on the brain , have to get them thinking Mopar as a viable choice .
 
Here's a question for my smallblock faithful (which i am also a part of)

LA block cores are getting thin...so if using the magnum block, whats the lesser of evils?

1 mag block, Oe roller...but no fuel pump eccentric.
2 mag block, flat tappet cam, with eccentric
3 mag block, +400 for a roller cam with eccentric, possibly and LA timing cover and water pump.
 
furyus2 said:
I like the idea of the 3G Hemi, with the electronics to run it. Some flexibility in the electronics so you can modify your engine would be great. I think the biggest shortcoming with the 3G swap is no overdrive. That's the main reason to have a modern drive line.
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Gear Vendors O/D , once you're spending that kind of money . I have one and it's worth every penny . Of course any drive for me is a minimum 45 miles highway , 2500 rpm instead of 3200+ rpm makes a big difference . Costs me $10.00 each way @1.45/litre , and easy on the ears .
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
Here's a question for my smallblock faithful (which i am also a part of)

LA block cores are getting thin...so if using the magnum block, whats the lesser of evils?

1 mag block, Oe roller...but no fuel pump eccentric.
2 mag block, flat tappet cam, with eccentric
3 mag block, +400 for a roller cam with eccentric, possibly and LA timing cover and water pump.
Click to expand...
Always good to have the mech fuel pump as a backup at a minimum , so 2 and 3 are good options . Don't see any downside to a Magnum block
 
jerry6 said:
Always good to have the mech fuel pump as a backup at a minimum , so 2 and 3 are good options . Don't see any downside to a Magnum block
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my only concern is without a LA timing cover and waterpump, the mag water pump requires a serp setup, which is probably $ most people don't need to spend. But, the LA pump wit a mag intake requires plugging the bypass hose, or running the odd angle hose. Neither are inhibitive, just less that optimal.
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
I've got the volume, and the margins. Thats the benefit of being a large scale WD opposed to a smaller operation that doesn't have the volume to get WD pricing. We won't be at 40% margins.lol no doubt about that. But once i get the kits put together, and start moving some product i think it will be worth doing. thanks for looking out though!
Click to expand...


Totally missed your a Wholesale Distributor. My perspective, of course, was from my stand point. I have built and sold before. But it is a one on one basis. Those looking for a certain something. More of a personal touch and a honest intrest in what there trying to do.

With all the cores I have around, the idea of building a few engines to sell has past through my head a few times. The expensive part is a dyno to show what the engine makes so the buyer will know what it has is also an expense that is hard to recoup and make a profit on. While it is worth the expense for selling purposes, I do not have enough of the same engines to do it once and just do simple repeat builds to sell.

Having many 360's or 318's to do would be a big help. That way I could build 3 different power levels and the. Simply assemble them on a as needed basis for the customer. It would be fun though!
 
Now if I can get my 3g crowd on board with a 4L80E... (gasp) lol
 
I also have GV,and worth every penny.I even use it as a gear-splitter.

When it comes to small blocks I'm on the third iteration of my 360, and while the 292/509, 833-O/D,GV,4.30s, wasn't the hot ticket I hoped it would be, the other 2 cams I tried, and the many M/T ratios I tried, and the many, many rear gears that went through it, I finally arrived at, IMO, a sweet combo.
Of course I'm done buying now, but I have learned something about street cruising. Torque is king. Down low torque. And O/D is mandatory if you are gonna do it with a small block.
Again, IMO, an A-body at 3650lbs wet (car and driver),needs 400ish cubes to be really fun if you're stuck with a 3 speed trans. This allows a modest cam and rear gears.
Yeah 360 cubes can be fun, but it will require more cam and more gear and then an O/D tranny. And the fuel economy wont be great if the cam gets too big.

But if a guy had an modest engine with VVT, and an O/D, plus EFI;and it was a drop-in? now that would be something.

I've got in the neighborhood of 10GCan in my powertrain. Plus a shed full of parts that didnt work out, or broke, or are spares. Plus I've spent hundreds of hours swapping parts and tuning, and more swapping/tuning.
A drop-in power train, that makes 430ish hp/450tq, and manages fuel economy in the mid 20sUS, and cruises at 1700,and saves me all those hours; now that would be worth something. A lot.
Unfortunately, most of us piece our cars together a little at a time, as stuff breaks or as we can afford it, or as we decide more is better.I would have to take a second mortgage on my house to come up with a pile of cash that big. And you probably know this, but most of us Mopar guys are either tight-wads and will try to do everything ourselves, or we are tight-wads cuz we're poor, or we just like to take stuff apart.

I do however wish you all the best. It's a great idea.
 
Thanks for the encouragement!

I agree not everyone has the pockets to just buy it all in one hit (me included) but thats why i wasn't some lower priced 408 and 360 packages. Obviously tailored to street cars, i think covering both ends of the spectrums will be a necessity.

lets face it, even a 290 HP 360, paired to a 904, is a pretty big upgrade over a 150 HP factory 318, or a slant. together in an affordable package with a 24 month warranty...should be a no brainer when building a nice street car with some more pep than stock!

on the opposite side, if someone wants a gen3 swap, and has the wallet, then well have the covered as well. Sure there are do it yourselfers that can find the pieces parts in a wrecking yard and do it for less, but those are no warranty engines, with unknown pasts. I see both sides, i just want to be the one with option B!
 
Sorry but no. Mopar family are a different people (in most cases). That deeper passion for their car. The worst part of building my car was the motor. The parts (for me) being so expensive I opted to let the machine shop assemble and I could only watch and not put my hands on it :banghead: I'm the only one of my large group of friends with mopars and the only one who built his car from the ground up. (I know-except the inturnals of the motor :banghead: ). Friend #1- 1969 454 sold lifter 5-speed mint condition Camaro. Bought it in mint condition has full garage with all tools and pays to have simple things fixed (fan belts) LOL - will NOT race me? Friend #2- 2010 5-speed Corvette full garage with all tools - changed his battery once ? Put the wrong one in and shot a bunch of his electrics. LOL - cheap skate! Will NOT race me. Friend #3- 1972 nova had pro's do a LS turbo swap for him. WILL race -but- only on the street because he's not track legal. Sorry I'm not 16 any more.
my wife has done more work on her 66 barracuda than all these chevy guys put together !
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all and will surely pass on your number to my chevy friends.
I'm sure you'll sell some, but your probly better off playing the numbers like everyone else....
oh ya, NO opinions #-o O/P please disregard everything after the NO :coffee2:
 
This is some wacky input.
I'm concerned that in the future, maybe near future maybe a long way down the road, our vintages car will be considered dirty & wasteful. Our old cars could be as socially unacceptable as wearing a fur coat or smoking in an elevator.
But this leaves an oppurtunity for someone to provide a solution.
I think something like Gen 3 Hemi that runs on natural gas or propane would be interesting. See this article -> https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vi...nt=&utm_campaign=Hagerty Weekly News 9-2-2015
Or the engine could start on natural gas or propane & switch to running on gasoline (note: today after about half a minute or less, actually it is usually significantly less, the exhaust emissions are so low it is very difficult to even measure them!).
I think all of the technology & components to do this are available.
Think of it, someone could have a zero emissions '70 Superbird! Or a ' 66 Valiant.
 
SSVDP said:
Oh I forgot... And we could say it's cleaner than a hybrid (Prious)!
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Considering any 5.7 swap will probably yield over 25 MPG in a classic car...i'll tackle those first.lol already a niche enough market without introducting aftermarket fuel sources.lol thanks.
 
Hellcat + T56 = :burnout:

I think it'd be cool having the only Hellcat powered Dart Sport on the planet. Till then I guess I'll keep my 340 :glasses7:
 
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