Where's the Wow?
- Thread starter Freezerman
- Start date
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Sure;
1) Did You block the exhaust crossover in the intake, if so, You may need to fatten the jets up(or skinnier rods) a bit.
2) Where did this eddy 600 come from? I would check the float level & make sure it is up where it belongs.
3) While the engine would appreciate 9:1 plus, that thing should be killin' the tires w/140-150 cranking regardless.
4) As above, recheck the valve timing & be sure You didn't miss by a tooth, but if You centerlined it, ..............
5) How much liter preload is there, did you check?
Does the exhaust have a heat riser valve in it or removed, if it was blocked and sending exhaust gases through the intake that might be the noise you hear and it wont let the engine rev and wont have any power.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
If the cam degrees right, then it can't be off a tooth. If it is off a tooth, it won't come even close to degreeing right.
What pistons do you have? Are these dished pistons? I am trying to figure out the '.080" in the hole' statement. If dished, is this .080" to the bottom of the dish or to the edge?
Is the throttle opening right?
What pistons do you have? Are these dished pistons? I am trying to figure out the '.080" in the hole' statement. If dished, is this .080" to the bottom of the dish or to the edge?
Is the throttle opening right?
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
The Eddy was on my 318, ran well, did check floats. I did block crossover, so maybe on jets. Didn't check preload on lifters. From what everyone is saying I'm afraid I f'ed up the timing somehow.
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
It's a completely stock bottom end, didn't take it apart. So factory pistons.
I would first check the cam lobes, easy but messy the way I stated.
But, I doubt that's the issue, somewhere, someplace, when you find it a big light bulb will come on! By the way it sounds, your not trying to tweak the last 20 horse, your trying to find a half an engine.
You may have to re-jet your carb...A 360 is much larger than a 318, especially with such a large cam. I had a Durango with the 360 and it was wow. Double check to make sure your carb riser and carb are buttoned down well.
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
Yes on the 1/2 engine! That's what it feels like. That's why I'm afraid something with the cam and timing. But at least you lights are confirming, I Should be decent with my combo if I get it worming
Hook up your vacuum gauge with a long hose tap the gauge to the windshield or were you can drive it and watch the gauge and see what you have for vacuum while driving down the road. If the vacuum drops way off when driving you could have a plugged up exhaust, bad muffler, pipe kinked, you might need to change the springs in the metering rod pistons to a lighter spring so if you know the vacuum you can get the correct spring. I know you are getting a lot of advice do the easiest things first. drive it with a vacuum gauge, pull the left valve cover rotate the motor till its on overlap and look at the balancer should be close to 0. Do like 318willrun said mark the push rods and see if they rotate when engine is running and just watch all the valves move they should all be the same.
Also you said you checked the floats did you pull the metering rods out first or did you put the top back on with the meter rods still in, might have missed the jet going back together.
Going from a carb that's jetted correctly w/a heated intake to a cold iron intake is going to require a bump of 4..maybe 6 equivalent jet sizes depending on the actual change
in temp., pull the VC's & check the lifter preload, & recheck the intake centerline. If You indeed pulled the chain & managed to put it back off, it won't be anywhere close!!
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
I have a similar build, just a stock 8.0ish with RPM intake, stock 49 year old Carter AVS and xe 268, stock exhaust manifolds. 2 black stripes for 60+feet. You should see similar, although that cam needs 3.55's and 2600 at the converter regardless of what comps website says. Something is way off and missed.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Then the 8.4:1 SCR mentioned earlier is about right. I am not 100% sure that your cranking compression check is accurate; gauges can be off. I would expect 135-140 psi. Cranking compression would read higher if the cam is timed too advanced, but then your torque sounds low overall from your description of symptoms, and that would be the opposite of a too advanced cam.
DCR will be right at 7:1 with the cam timing straight up as ground, or a bit less, so it on the lowish side; it's not really a torquey-at-low-RPM's compression setup. (But you did the best you could with those pistons!)
What stall speed is your convertor?
Car weight?
Any smoke out the back at high revs when the engine is warmed up? Any oil on top of the valve covers or in the air cleaner after runs at the track? (I am just looking for clues to a weak ring seal when actually running.) If the rings are weak, and the tops rings are getting oiled, they will show up decent numbers for cranking compression tests, but not seal well when under real running pressure. A bottom end this old could well have sticking rings in it too. I am really suspicious of the bottom end; cross-hatch is just one of many elements in a good piston seal.
340demon72
Well-Known Member
If the engine all checks out, converter health and stall speed is suspect. Was the converter new or previously used? Was the stall speed selected based on engine peak torque rpm? Have you run a stall test on the converter? If the overrunning (stator) clutch slips there won't be any torque multiplication. Result, the car will come off the line like a slug but will come alive (if the engine is OK) around 3500 to 4500 rpm.
Here's a good primer on converter function: Precision Industries
and a discussion on the stator clutch: Overrunning One Way Stator Clutch | Torque Converter
Had this problem with my 340 and a new converter with the proper stall speed turned it into a whole new experience!
Here's a good primer on converter function: Precision Industries
and a discussion on the stator clutch: Overrunning One Way Stator Clutch | Torque Converter
Had this problem with my 340 and a new converter with the proper stall speed turned it into a whole new experience!
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
It was a new converter but I didn't get one ordered. It was a 360 high torque from Pat Blair. So probably not ideal but don't think I'd lose that much from it. Really not much power up top either. Should have mentioned when I put it in gear at 900 rpm it engages hard and kinda puts the car "up on its toes" but almost stalls down to 450 to 500 rpm
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
Ok. I've done some checking. All the pushrods spin when I had them marked! So cam lobes should be OK which is great. I think 318willrun and some of others were on the nose with cam timing. Apparently I failed there somehow. The intake valve should open at 28* BTDC, it doesn't move until at least 18*! So it looks like I'll be pulling the timing chain cover. Thank you for confirming it should run well if I get timing right! Does anyone recommend I should run the cam advanced at all since I have to redo it anyway?
I'd just see where you are at the moment.... And I don't recommend advancing a cam without a specific reason.
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
The cam you have has a 4 degree ground in advance. A bit more will help low end torque a bit but if you are off a tooth, then just getting it right will make a massive difference.
Cam timing is a good place to look into in more detail. But you should be looking at when the intake lifter's body starts to move, not when the valve starts to open. This is because, if the lifter has leaked down at all, then the valve will not move for some number of degrees after the lifter body starts to move, and so looking at the valve would not be accurate in that situation. Also, if you are looking by eye, this is hard to be accurate; the movement for the 'opening' event is only .006". A dial indicator is needed for this. Have you been using one?
BTW, have you been checking cam timing with a degree wheel mounted on the crankshaft with it verified aligned to true #1 TDC, or from the marks on the crank damper? Crank dampers are known to slip and will then not be accurate for timing. At this point, you REALLY need to find true TDC and verify that the damper marks are right, regardless of everything else. That is needed to be accurate for ignition timing too. I would do that before removing the damper and cover.
(And I hope you don't mind my asking about your technique and tools, but to time the cam to an accuracy of a degree or 2, you need to use the right equipment. Doing it by eye is not going to be adequate.)
Your description of the torque converter action seems odd; do you mean to say that if the engine is idling at 900 RPM, then the RPM's drop to 450 or 550 when the car is put in gear?
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
No offense to any questions. Yes I did use a degree wheel and dial indicator for checking the cam and a dial indicator now for checking intake valve lift. I put the the timing chain in a long time ago and did have "help? " also. Yes on the converter, which makes me lean towards timing also. When I put it in gear it drops down to almost stalling out at 450 to 500. From 900 idle.
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
To be exact, intake valve on #1 starts opening at 16 degrees measured at .006 to .008. I know for certain TDC lined up exactly on the balancer when I put it together. So that leaves either the balancer or the timing.
One way to tell if the lifter is bled off measure the total lift at the valve if it's not on spec the lifter has bled down and your reading wont be correct on the intake valve timing.
joec
Well-Known Member
The idle drop has nothing to do with the cam timing .Usually its because the idle circut on the carb isnt rich enough or the converter is too tight my first guess is the carb.If you degreed the cam your ok your just reading it as the lifter is bleeding down.You seem to have enough cyl pressure. I think the problem is in tuning more than anything.But what about the valve springs? Are they correct? Do they have enough pressure for the xe cam?
Freezerman
Well-Known Member
So, apparently I messed up the install somewhere, dots don't line up. Going to start over finding TDC and cam centerline. Thanks for the advice. At least I believe there's hope for this engine!
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