cleaning up the slant six head

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I use vinegar to clean steel and remove plating all of the time. It isn't fast. I buy it in large jugs from Smart & Final if you have those in your area. If not try any restaurant type, semi W/D supply place. You'll spend a lot more buying it from the chain grocery stores.

When you rinse from any acidic type cleaning process you need to blow dry it immediately or it will flash rust right in front of your eyes. A light coating of something like WD-40 right after that is a good idea.
 
1930 , My stock 170 63 Valiant ran 22.60's at 68 MPH ! WOO-HOO,, Looks like you hit your number dead on !!
Im gonna guess that your valiant weighed approx 3000 pounds, mine is double that so I guess anything above 46 seconds at 44 MPH should put a grin on my face :) than.
 
So heres a kind of dumb question, when porting the intake, how do you get all the way up the #1 and 6 runners?
 
So heres a kind of dumb question, when porting the intake, how do you get all the way up the #1 and 6 runners?

Sounds like a job for Extrude Hone. No problem getting bigger, smoother, ports in places you can't reach...

http://boneheadperformance.com/extrude-honing/

Or, you could just go the hairdryer route and not bother about the port size...


You pays your money and you takes your cherce...:cheers:
 
So heres a kind of dumb question, when porting the intake, how do you get all the way up the #1 and 6 runners?
Heres an even more novice question, why mention porting the intake?

I did not realize that porting the intakes on these engines was an option. I do know on conventional V-8 intakes it is common.

I am under the impression at this point that porting the intake on these engines is not really an option other than to possibly open it enough to match the adjoining head port and then only blending back the cuts so that there are no hard transitions where fuel could become trapped and air may be slowed down ect ect.
 
So heres a kind of dumb question, when porting the intake, how do you get all the way up the #1 and 6 runners?

BTW check out the link Bill gave and if you computer illiterate like me click on the button that talks about extrude honing, I just happened upon it trying to figure out what Bill was trying to have us see.

Sounds very interesting and I may go ahead and have this done to my intake.

I mean if the cost is 100 buck or 150 ( just guessing ) than that is doable for me and just for kicks Id like to see what sort of difference it might make. Only makes sense to me that anything that can be done to increase air flow/efficiency will be a bonus and although it may seem like I am pissin in the wind ( cause the engine is going in a slow truck ) I dont feel that way cause the truck for me is a keeper. I dont often sell things.

Im gonna read more about it.

My biggest problem would be seeing the advantages whilst driving since I dont have much/anything to compare it to.

Also can they do cast iron, looking at their prices now it may be un-feasable. Im gonna contact them anyway

EDIT: Cast Iron Intake (any)- $865

Im out :)
 
So heres a kind of dumb question, when porting the intake, how do you get all the way up the #1 and 6 runners?
Typically you don't go more than the aforementioned 3/4"-1" deep into the runner in either the head or either manifold.

Extrude Hone is good for dry flow (MP-EFI), not so much for wet flow (TBI/Carb) because it lacks the surface finish to keep partly atomized fuel in suspension. Same reason that you don't polish intake ports. I suppose that you could use a heavy grit and sand-blast after Extrude-Honing a wet flow intake. Sure seems like a bass-ackwards way of doing things, but it might have some merit.
 
Typically you don't go more than the aforementioned 3/4"-1" deep into the runner in either the head or either manifold.

Extrude Hone is good for dry flow (MP-EFI), not so much for wet flow (TBI/Carb) because it lacks the surface finish to keep partly atomized fuel in suspension. Same reason that you don't polish intake ports. I suppose that you could use a heavy grit and sand-blast after Extrude-Honing a wet flow intake. Sure seems like a bass-ackwards way of doing things, but it might have some merit.

No one seems to recognize the extent to which the cylinder HEAD is the bottleneck in this N-A deal. Putting headers or a ported intake on an engine that already has such an egregious breathing problem that originates in the HEAD, id like putting a band aid on pancreatic cancer; it won't do much good.

The logical choice to making power out of this strangulated non-breather, is a nitrous oxide system, or same sort of forced induction. It's a shame that the engine was designed with such small bores, but there it is.... and they preclude any sort of effective flow-increasing efforts as regards changing the ports/valve setup; there's just not enough room.

However, the incredibly stout infrastructure of this engine makes it a really good platform (in terms of reliability and output,) for alternatives to asking this thing to breathe, naturally-aspirated.

It never will... :disgust:

All the well-meaning speculation in the world won't help you make even 1.5hp-per-cubic inch out of this unfortunate example of poor air-management. At best, you might get 300 horsepower, after massaging every aspect of the engine's port/valve/manifold/cam/piston systems... and at what cost?

Not a good candidate for N-A exercises...

Just my opinion... nothing more.
 
I think that you're wrong, that most of us do recognize that, have processed it, and are now asking "what can we do that is reasonable?"

The difference is turbulent flow vs. laminar flow. Sure, you aren't going to easily and cheaply turn a low flowing head into a dyno killing 9.90 monster but you can make a difference in the quality of the flow that you do have. Reducing the turbulence, reducing the boundary layer will promote better flow without resorting to serious and time consuming port development work.

The tone that I get is one of throwing one's hands up in the air, wandering around saying "there's nothing that can be done, there's nothing that can be done..... " when that really isn't true. something CAN be done, it just isn't going to make it a fire-breathing monster. It will help with efficiency and it will help in making a little more power. It is worth the effort to gasket-match the ports.
 
The post above is exactly where I am at Bill, I couldnt have said it better except to add that I am hoping that any modifications I may do now to the head might be one less thing that may have to be done later should I choose to follow the other path of turbo. Thanks
 
Typically you don't go more than the aforementioned 3/4"-1" deep into the runner in either the head or either manifold.

Extrude Hone is good for dry flow (MP-EFI), not so much for wet flow (TBI/Carb) because it lacks the surface finish to keep partly atomized fuel in suspension. Same reason that you don't polish intake ports. I suppose that you could use a heavy grit and sand-blast after Extrude-Honing a wet flow intake. Sure seems like a bass-ackwards way of doing things, but it might have some merit.

I have been told this before, if you can go into greater detail on the whys and why nots it would be helpful .........Same reason that you don't polish intake ports.
 
There should be some boundary layer in the intake ports, it shouldn't be entirely laminar flow. The reason is to provide enough turbulence to pick up any liquid fuel and re-introduce it to the main flow so that you're not dropping liquid fuel into the combustion chamber. The way to create that boundary layer is to have some surface roughness on the port walls. The rougher the finish presumably the bigger the boundary layer, but that is not something easily controlled or predicted. So just go with rough, not polished and call it good enough.

With dry flow, like in an EFI intake above the injectors or in exhaust, you don't want any boundary layer because it serves no purpose and reduces flow. So those areas can be polished smooth. Extrude-Hone type processes do a marvelous job of this. It's basically abrasive Play-doh (from what I can tell) pumped thru whatever under some pretty good pressure. It won't really change the shape of the port, but it will keep taking off the high points until the port walls are fairly smooth and the successive cross-sections are very uniform and consistent.
 
I think that you're wrong, that most of us do recognize that, have processed it, and are now asking "what can we do that is reasonable?"

The difference is turbulent flow vs. laminar flow. Sure, you aren't going to easily and cheaply turn a low flowing head into a dyno killing 9.90 monster but you can make a difference in the quality of the flow that you do have. Reducing the turbulence, reducing the boundary layer will promote better flow without resorting to serious and time consuming port development work.

The tone that I get is one of throwing one's hands up in the air, wandering around saying "there's nothing that can be done, there's nothing that can be done..... " when that really isn't true. something CAN be done, it just isn't going to make it a fire-breathing monster. It will help with efficiency and it will help in making a little more power. It is worth the effort to gasket-match the ports.

I completely respect that train of thought.. I am a victim of my own over-exuberance and have tunnel vision when it comes to this stuff. I apologize for my having beaten a dead horse.

You are entirely right in what you said.

Have at it... :blob: And, good luck!
 
There should be some boundary layer in the intake ports, it shouldn't be entirely laminar flow. The reason is to provide enough turbulence to pick up any liquid fuel and re-introduce it to the main flow so that you're not dropping liquid fuel into the combustion chamber. The way to create that boundary layer is to have some surface roughness on the port walls. The rougher the finish presumably the bigger the boundary layer, but that is not something easily controlled or predicted. So just go with rough, not polished and call it good enough.

With dry flow, like in an EFI intake above the injectors or in exhaust, you don't want any boundary layer because it serves no purpose and reduces flow. So those areas can be polished smooth. Extrude-Hone type processes do a marvelous job of this. It's basically abrasive Play-doh (from what I can tell) pumped thru whatever under some pretty good pressure. It won't really change the shape of the port, but it will keep taking off the high points until the port walls are fairly smooth and the successive cross-sections are very uniform and consistent.
Can you explain laminar layer and boundary layer as it pertains to this scenario?

Googling Laminar layer and you-tube has this really neat video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p08_KlTKP50"]Laminar Flow - YouTube[/ame] but dosent help much in my understanding.
 
I would also like to better understand how much a non-forced ( ? ) air induction will help on these little engines.

I see alot of you guys have come up with ingenious ways of modifying your air cleaners so that there is a pick-up located at the front of the car somewhere behind the headlights or in front of the grille.

I am assuming this is the same theory behind turbocharging....the more air in the more fuel it draws with it but one thing I am still not understanding is why does a larger amount of fuel/air that is entering the cylinder have an impact on the engines performance?

I mean I have read that the more fuel/air that can be shoved into the cylinder the better from a performance stand-point but I am not clear why. ....Is it because as more air/fuel that is trapped within the cylinder the compression within the cylinder ( compression ratio ) increases and so there is more boomboom when the plug fires?

More boomboom = more force = more power makes sense to me but I would like verification that I am working this out properly.

Also I understand ( unless I am mistaken ) that at higher engine speeds there is a certain layer of dead air that encapsulates the vehicle surfaces so how does this play into the scenario of one of these external pick-ups that guys are mounting.

Lastly I cant help but to wonder how one of these pick-ups assuming they are indeed drawing in more fuel can affect fuel mileage. Fuel mileage is a big factor for me. I do not want to make mods that will drastically affect my fuel mileage negatively.

I am possibly off on my thinking that the more air being drawn past the carb venturi is drawing in more fuel.....possibly it is a question of better atomization in which case I can understand the interest as I know that the fuel particles will burn within the cylinder much quicker/cleaner ( less waste ) if the fuel is atomized better.
 
1930, Here is a photo of a cold air intake setup that cost a whopping $10(less the price of the filter.) The tube is run thru the rad support to behind the grille. With this one modification the car picked up 4/10ths in the 1/4 mile. Cheap ram air that works.

A few short years ago Hot Rod Magazine did a article where they hooked up a leaf blower to the air intake and made a few passes. It looked silly but proved the principal,,poor man's blow thru turbo.
 

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1930, Here is a photo of a cold air intake setup that cost a whopping $10(less the price of the filter.) The tube is run thru the rad support to behind the grille. With this one modification the car picked up 4/10ths in the 1/4 mile. Cheap ram air that works.

A few short years ago Hot Rod Magazine did a article where they hooked up a leaf blower to the air intake and made a few passes. It looked silly but porved the principal,,poor man's blow thru turbo.
Thats a neat looking set-up. I am interested in your headers as well, what are they made from, where did you get them and cost?
 
Here is where I am at with the head, instead of sending it out to be cleaned I figured I would try and save a few bucks and do it myself. I am in no rush so time is not an issue.

Didnt think I had the right sized container and I am cheap so I decided to make my own container with a shovel and some bricks and a black plastic trash bag.



Head is off a spare 84 engine I have. Assuming its good and never been worked on but at this point just guessing.









Trying to re-search best way of cleaning the thing and Vinegar seemed about my cheapest/best option.

Guy I work with does alot of import racing and says he soaks them in Dawn dishwashing detergent first and that cuts through all the grease and **** but doing a search on Vinegar and it supposedly according to some will do the same thing, others say its usless against grease so time will tell.



I didnt like this first method cause I was afraid that at some point a pin-hole might happen in the plastic and by this time I already had 8 gallons of Vinegar.

8 @ 2.38 gallon and I was starting to get cautious. Just so happened that my wife produced a plastic bin of an even closer size to the head than my hole and so I decided to line that with the black plastic ( for heat transfer ) and go with that.

On my way to get 3 more gallons of Vinegar and noticed someone threw out an entertainment center with the glass facia. I thought this would give my project the high tech look and also help with addition heat transfer so I stopped to rip the door off and throw it in my car.

Ill let it sit and go out and check it when I get home from work, if its squeeky clean by next weekend than I will disassemble the head and soak it for another week.



 
Laminar flow is smooth, non-turbulent flow all going in the same direction. Turbulent flow is chaotic flow, all kinds of random flow directions. Think of it like cattle. You have herd that you're moving from one field to another. Across the open field they all move in the same direction as you're directing them. That is laminar flow. Except those out at the edges, they tend to peel off and try to do their own thing. That is the boundary layer.

Once you get to the gate those inline with the gate go thru it, but those around the edges mill about, turn the wrong direction, and generally make more work for you. That is turbulent flow. Notice how those milling around tend to make the gate opening narrower than it actually is. That is why predominately turbulent flow in the ports isn't desirable.

Even air has friction, both to itself and to other things. So a rough surface will cause it to 'stick' more than a smooth surface. That results in what is called the boundary layer. It is easy to mentally picture this in a cross section of the port, but remember that it exists anywhere that there is port wall. Can think of the boundary layer being like the skin on a sausage, only depending on both the velocity of the 'meat' and the surface roughness of the port walls it's thickness will vary.

"Ram Air" is a way to slightly increase the atmospheric pressure on the carb. The effect is similar to turbo or supercharging, but at most it is only worth a couple psi at normal road speeds. If one stick of dynamite is good, then 1.5 sticks would be better and 2 sticks would be better yet. Right? That is what is happening here, by forcing more air through the carb and into the engine there is more power to be had in each ignition event. If the throttle is partly closed, like in a cruise condition, then it's effect is lessened but it's there when you might need it.
My Valiant is the second car that I've done a cold air system on. On the first car where I most noticed a difference was on really hot days. The engine ran cooler on those days than it did before I made the ram air parts. It wasn't huge, but it was noticeable.

One thing to be thoughtful of/careful of when building a ram air system is water. Whether it be on the road or in the air, you don't want your system to feed it to the engine. With GM truck cold air intakes they poke it thru the core support up high (so it won't suck in water from a puddle) and then put a baffle in front of the opening that is slightly larger than the opening. The air will make the turns, but the water will mash up against the core support and dribble down it. My first system didn't do a great job of dealing with water and I sometime had soaked air filter elements to prove it. This one on the Valiant has a vertical turn that goes up much higher than the ID of the intake tube so that any water will hit the back wall of the tube and will condense and dribble down to the bottom of the curve where there is a small hole to drain it out.
 
1930. The air cleaner is from a 77 Chrysler Cordoba 360 4 bbl. The tubing was from a 80 Dodge Omni. Found both strollin' thru the wrecking yard.
The header is Mopar Performance Long tube 6 into one collector.No longer made.Wish I bought 10 of them while they were still available @ $174.00
 
Laminar flow is smooth, non-turbulent flow all going in the same direction. Turbulent flow is chaotic flow, all kinds of random flow directions. Think of it like cattle. You have herd that you're moving from one field to another. Across the open field they all move in the same direction as you're directing them. That is laminar flow. Except those out at the edges, they tend to peel off and try to do their own thing. That is the boundary layer.

Once you get to the gate those inline with the gate go thru it, but those around the edges mill about, turn the wrong direction, and generally make more work for you. That is turbulent flow. Notice how those milling around tend to make the gate opening narrower than it actually is. That is why predominately turbulent flow in the ports isn't desirable.

Even air has friction, both to itself and to other things. So a rough surface will cause it to 'stick' more than a smooth surface. That results in what is called the boundary layer. It is easy to mentally picture this in a cross section of the port, but remember that it exists anywhere that there is port wall. Can think of the boundary layer being like the skin on a sausage, only depending on both the velocity of the 'meat' and the surface roughness of the port walls it's thickness will vary.

"Ram Air" is a way to slightly increase the atmospheric pressure on the carb. The effect is similar to turbo or supercharging, but at most it is only worth a couple psi at normal road speeds. If one stick of dynamite is good, then 1.5 sticks would be better and 2 sticks would be better yet. Right? That is what is happening here, by forcing more air through the carb and into the engine there is more power to be had in each ignition event. If the throttle is partly closed, like in a cruise condition, then it's effect is lessened but it's there when you might need it.
My Valiant is the second car that I've done a cold air system on. On the first car where I most noticed a difference was on really hot days. The engine ran cooler on those days than it did before I made the ram air parts. It wasn't huge, but it was noticeable.

One thing to be thoughtful of/careful of when building a ram air system is water. Whether it be on the road or in the air, you don't want your system to feed it to the engine. With GM truck cold air intakes they poke it thru the core support up high (so it won't suck in water from a puddle) and then put a baffle in front of the opening that is slightly larger than the opening. The air will make the turns, but the water will mash up against the core support and dribble down it. My first system didn't do a great job of dealing with water and I sometime had soaked air filter elements to prove it. This one on the Valiant has a vertical turn that goes up much higher than the ID of the intake tube so that any water will hit the back wall of the tube and will condense and dribble down to the bottom of the curve where there is a small hole to drain it out.
Thanks for the explanation, understood.
 
1930. The air cleaner is from a 77 Chrysler Cordoba 360 4 bbl. The tubing was from a 80 Dodge Omni. Found both strollin' thru the wrecking yard.
The header is Mopar Performance Long tube 6 into one collector.No longer made.Wish I bought 10 of them while they were still available @ $174.00
Yeah, Id be all over it at that price as well.
 
Experiment not so successful.

First issue was that Vinegar would not touch grease.

Pulled head out and dipped the head in water/dawn dishwashing fluid. Let it sit overnight thinking that would rid the grease. I figured I would de-grease it and stick it back in vinegar.

There was some sort of reaction with machined surfaces only, they had gone soft, I can scrape tha cast iron away down to the depth of maybe a business card ( more likely less )

Vinegar did not affect the non-machined surfaces, did not seem to affect any of the valve train parts, did not seem to affect the valve seats, as far as I can tell it only affected the machined surface where valve cover bolts on, intake/exhaust surfaces and of course the mating surface between the head and the block.

Dont know what to make of it, I had searched all over the net and Vinegar was what was being recommended, time or ratio was never really detailed out in any of the posts I had read and after doing another search this A.M I still see no posts from people that have had this issue in the past.

Maybe the head is junk at this point, I planned to have all the machined surfaces machined anyway for various reasons and not overly concerned with valve cover mating surface since I feel I can clean that up pretty well by hand with a scraper.

Any thoughts?

No that is not head gasket material I am scraping off, that is cast iron, wont scrape any deeper, it is normal hard cast iron under that thin layer of soft cast.
 

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I knew that long term exposure to Muriatic (Pool) acid would do that. I haven't seen vinegar do that in any of my cleanings using it. Frankly I didn't think that it was a strong enough acid TO do that. Though I rarely leave something soaking more than overnight. I've always de-greased with purple cleaner, so I had not idea if the vinegar would or wouldn't work on grease.

The head gasket surface is probably OK once it's been cut. I'd be most worried about the drool tube holes leaking if their size has been altered and that the rocker shaft saddles are no longer in the right place for proper rocker geometry.
 
Why take a chance? /6 heads are free. Find another one and pay a few bucks to have it hot tanked.
 
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