milling heads for comp ratio increase

[Wyrmrider]

I have not seen a Schneider in years

gross duration depends on what lift If he is using SAE or .004 like a Crane then lets compare with the Edelbrock/ Summit 6400 / Elgin which claim to be 288-298 SAE with intake closing 34 ABDC

214-224@.050 but only .444 lift on the intake

the Schneider says 290 and closing 37 ABDC 224-224@.050 480 valve lift

The Hughes SEH1620 closes 36ABDC has .495 lift but is a much shorter grind at 216@.050

I'd estimate 263@.006 see Howard lobe HM2163318A



The Summit 6401 is also a 224@.050 but only gets 466 lift claims to be 298@.050 it wants 9.5 compression

Closest Comp cam is the XE268H also available from 440 source 224 @.50 480 lift comp claims 268 duration

This could be same league as Schneider- late modern chevy grind

should work fine since you own it- is it new? New lifters? Get the right springs

let's see what Howards and others come up with
The early closed chamber heads take a lot of work to flow so so- I'd get new heads B4 spending money on early heads- unless this is a matching number show car...

 

[70Hardtop]

Yes that is the idead behind them and they have been out since the late 60's or early 70's and do what you say. I would surely put those in for this cam in that small engine.

BTW, when I ran the DCR numbers, I dropped the duration from 290 to 280 degrees to try to somewhat compensate for the slow ramps and get to an 'effective' DCR. So I already tried to compensate things.

But if it were me, I'd go for a different cam. My racing discipline is rally, and a real, wide torque band is critical for that, not peak HP. (That, or a 6 speed transmission!) That same approach works on for a perky street engine.

Yeah, a different cam would be the best thing. I will look into what's around and costs etc. As a street driver only, low torque is what it's all about. As a work vehicle though it won't be doing a lot of work or towing trailers or boats; 95% of the time driving around empty. I appreciate your help and interest!

 

[70Hardtop]

I have not seen a Schneider in years.....should work fine since you own it- is it new? New lifters? Get the right springs..........let's see what Howards and others come up with
The early closed chamber heads take a lot of work to flow so so- I'd get new heads B4 spending money on early heads- unless this is a matching number show car...

wow I appreciate the research on all those numbers. Yes the cam is definitely in the category of old school racers. It is not new, but in very good condition. I have new springs with dampers, correct for the lift, all tested myself on a valve spring tester and values noted. As I have read that even trusted names sometimes have variations outside their stated tolerance. Cost prevents me buying new heads. I have 4 mopars all needing attention and cash, I just can't afford to go buying new stuff like that when I can make the stuff it came with work moderately well. And we already discussed the most likely new heads, which would be the base Edelbrock aluminium performer heads, but the 2.02 inlets are too big for this engine capacity and as nm9stheham pointed out might need the block notched to use them. Here down under in my city, parts for these 60s engines are virtually non existent.

 

[Abodybomber]

wow I appreciate the research on all those numbers. Yes the cam is definitely in the category of old school racers. It is not new, but in very good condition. I have new springs with dampers, correct for the lift, all tested myself on a valve spring tester and values noted. As I have read that even trusted names sometimes have variations outside their stated tolerance. Cost prevents me buying new heads. I have 4 mopars all needing attention and cash, I just can't afford to go buying new stuff like that when I can make the stuff it came with work moderately well. And we already discussed the most likely new heads, which would be the base Edelbrock aluminium performer heads, but the 2.02 inlets are too big for this engine capacity and as nm9stheham pointed out might need the block notched to use them. Here down under in my city, parts for these 60s engines are virtually non existent.

Speed costs money, how much do you want to spend....?

 

[Abodybomber]

Yes that is the idead behind them and they have been out since the late 60's or early 70's and do what you say. I would surely put those in for this cam in that small engine.
I get what your going at , what does the O.P have to spend here, to get there ?

BTW, when I ran the DCR numbers, I dropped the duration from 290 to 280 degrees to try to somewhat compensate for the slow ramps and get to an 'effective' DCR. So I already tried to compensate things.

But if it were me, I'd go for a different cam. My racing discipline is rally, and a real, wide torque band is critical for that, not peak HP. (That, or a 6 speed transmission!) That same approach works on for a perky street engine.

 

[Abodybomber]

I have not seen a Schneider in years

gross duration depends on what lift If he is using SAE or .004 like a Crane then lets compare with the Edelbrock/ Summit 6400 / Elgin which claim to be 288-298 SAE with intake closing 34 ABDC

214-224@.050 but only .444 lift on the intake

the Schneider says 290 and closing 37 ABDC 224-224@.050 480 valve lift

The Hughes SEH1620 closes 36ABDC has .495 lift but is a much shorter grind at 216@.050

I'd estimate 263@.006 see Howard lobe HM2163318A



The Summit 6401 is also a 224@.050 but only gets 466 lift claims to be 298@.050 it wants 9.5 compression

Closest Comp cam is the XE268H also available from 440 source 224 @.50 480 lift comp claims 268 duration

This could be same league as Schneider- late modern chevy grind

should work fine since you own it- is it new? New lifters? Get the right springs

let's see what Howards and others come up with
The early closed chamber heads take a lot of work to flow so so- I'd get new heads B4 spending money on early heads- unless this is a matching number show car...

Your, over thinking this...
Been through ,all of this...
No ,those heads don't, recognize what's available, make it work.

 

[Abodybomber]

hell, the prognosis is not looking good. Thanks for doing that calculation. I did think the specs looked a bit radical, more suited to a torquey 360 I would assume. I have a set of Rhoads lifters, the latest type, V-Pro, I wonder how they would improve things...I have done a lot of reading and seen reviews from many users and they are supposed to work well in cases like this, improving low down torque on engines with bigger cams by reducing the lift at low rpms, but bringing it all back at around 3000-3500rpm. A primitive form of variable timing. Duration is the length of time in degrees the valves stay open, and these lifters won't change the duration but they will reduce the amount that the valves will open in the critical lower ranges. They might be worth a try and these ones need to be used with adjustable rocker gear as well.

I LOVE Rhoads lifters....

 

[70Hardtop]

recognize what's available, make it work.

yes that's always been my philosophy. I'm a born recycler and love to use what I have lying around, and without heaps of $ to throw around, I don't mind living with a sometimes less than ideal result - as long as its near the best I can achieve at the time.

 

[Wyrmrider]

you have the Schneider
I'd like to know at what lift he get's his durations
put it in a couple of degrees more advanced if you want to
keep notes
get the advance curve and tune optimized before making any judgments
check the compression and compare and report back
move on to the other 3
and
When the wife's happy everyone's happy

 

[70Hardtop]

you have the Schneider
I'd like to know at what lift he get's his durations
put it in a couple of degrees more advanced if you want to
keep notes
get the advance curve and tune optimized before making any judgments
check the compression and compare and report back
move on to the other 3
and
When the wife's happy everyone's happy

No wife! Maybe a good thing when you have cars. Down under, they are often called "The Anchor"

Putting in the Schneider a couple of degrees may be a good idea. I think they recommend that dial in as well.