another 360/408 over heating

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Ouch J Par that hurts, but I can handle it! lol I gave up on manuals long ago after I figured out they were more work then i needed to do.
AJ/FORMS,
I removed the radiator tonight and did your flow test. It took 45 seconds from the time I actually started dumping the gallon in until it had stopped flowing out. It took about 5 seconds for the first amount to get thru the radiator and begin flowing. There is no doubt that there is no restriction in that radiator. The flow is good.
I put a flex fan on tonight and re installed the radiator. Thats as far as I got. My plan would be that tomorrow night i can put the trans cooler lines back on and fill it up with coolant using the 180* thermostat, start it up and see if it will stay cool just sitting. I wont be able to drive it until at least Thursday night and that will be weather dependent! Of course that is my plan, real life may get into the way and may take me until next week until I can actualy get to work on it again!
I will report back once i get to run it.
Thanks Rodney
 
rod7515 said:
Ouch J Par that hurts, but I can handle it! lol I gave up on manuals long ago after I figured out they were more work then i needed to do.
AJ/FORMS,
I removed the radiator tonight and did your flow test. It took 45 seconds from the time I actually started dumping the gallon in until it had stopped flowing out. It took about 5 seconds for the first amount to get thru the radiator and begin flowing. There is no doubt that there is no restriction in that radiator. The flow is good.
I put a flex fan on tonight and re installed the radiator. Thats as far as I got. My plan would be that tomorrow night i can put the trans cooler lines back on and fill it up with coolant using the 180* thermostat, start it up and see if it will stay cool just sitting. I wont be able to drive it until at least Thursday night and that will be weather dependent! Of course that is my plan, real life may get into the way and may take me until next week until I can actualy get to work on it again!
I will report back once i get to run it.
Thanks Rodney
Click to expand...


FWIW I've never liked using the radiator to cool the transmission. The coolest you'll get the transmission oil is whatever coolant temp is, if that because there cooler is so small in that bottom tank.

If you use an external cooler you get ambient temp to cool the transmission. And there is some science that's over my head when considering the coiling ability of water verses ambient air.
 
I went as far as putting a transmission cooler with its own puller fan. a lot of times transmission shops put a transmission cooler in for two reasons- one is not to get contaminants from the old blown up transmission in the new transmission, but also to keep it extra cool so it doesn't come back...
 
rod7515 said:
Ouch J Par that hurts, but I can handle it! lol I gave up on manuals long ago after I figured out they were more work then i needed to do.
AJ/FORMS,
I removed the radiator tonight and did your flow test. It took 45 seconds from the time I actually started dumping the gallon in until it had stopped flowing out. It took about 5 seconds for the first amount to get thru the radiator and begin flowing. There is no doubt that there is no restriction in that radiator. The flow is good.
I put a flex fan on tonight and re installed the radiator. Thats as far as I got. My plan would be that tomorrow night i can put the trans cooler lines back on and fill it up with coolant using the 180* thermostat, start it up and see if it will stay cool just sitting. I wont be able to drive it until at least Thursday night and that will be weather dependent! Of course that is my plan, real life may get into the way and may take me until next week until I can actualy get to work on it again!
I will report back once i get to run it.
Thanks Rodney
Click to expand...
Yeah my duster the only thing that I have with the stick shift in it. I don't drive it as much as I would like to anyways. I was wondering is your transmission cooler just kind of zip tied to the front of your radiator and could possibly be shifted to accommodate a pusher?
 
No my cooler is mounted by brackets and bolted ain place. It's a very solid install. My first thing at this point is to see If this engine will run cool with the flex fan. If it does not then I'm going to have to tear the heads off and find what is causing this. If it does cool down then I move on to figuring out what I can do to make electric fans work.
Rod
 
rod7515 said:
No my cooler is mounted by brackets and bolted ain place. It's a very solid install. My first thing at this point is to see If this engine will run cool with the flex fan. If it does not then I'm going to have to tear the heads off and find what is causing this. If it does cool down then I move on to figuring out what I can do to make electric fans work.
Rod
Click to expand...
I forgot what kind of fuel are you running?
 
Somehow I don't think taking your heads off is going to reveal anything but a big laborious expense. Really if it's doing okay on the freeway, it's just not getting enough heat transfer..
 
That's the reason I am going to a flex fan and going to drive it that way and see where i am at. Reading back on my last drive it went up to 210 at times while driving. Would cool down some if going faster but not low enough to where it should run. I'm really hoping that the flex fan cools it.
Rod
 
rod7515 said:
No my cooler is mounted by brackets and bolted ain place. It's a very solid install. My first thing at this point is to see If this engine will run cool with the flex fan. If it does not then I'm going to have to tear the heads off and find what is causing this. If it does cool down then I move on to figuring out what I can do to make electric fans work.
Rod
Click to expand...


Are you using both the radiator cooler and an external cooler?
 
Hopefully the external cooler is after the radiator cooler or we can call the radiator a heater... my next guess is yellow rose is going to say to just run it through the external cooler only. If your radiator is getting up to 210 then so is your transmission... Not good.
 
so far it does sound pretty simple that if the car is cooling down when on the freeway and it gets enough wind that it's just not getting enough wind when it's not on the freeway.. ie heat transfer..
 
rod7515 said:
No my cooler is mounted by brackets and bolted ain place. It's a very solid install. My first thing at this point is to see If this engine will run cool with the flex fan. If it does not then I'm going to have to tear the heads off and find what is causing this. If it does cool down then I move on to figuring out what I can do to make electric fans work.
Rod
Click to expand...
I would not pull the heads off.
Face up to the facts.
If it will not cool while cruz'n down the road, your radiator is not large enough. I dont care what kind of fan you mount up. When you are going down the highway there is more free air going thru the radiator core than you can produce with any fan.
The radiator is the key to the entire cooling system. If the radiator is not up to the task it does not matter what you do with the rest of the system it will not work.
I have been down this road before many times over the past 45 years.
I almost got stumped once when I had a Milodon hi-flow water pump that the impeller was slipping on the shaft and the engine did not see enough flow.
Go back to the basics and you will find your issue, there may be more than one.
Good luck
 
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rod7515 said:
That's the reason I am going to a flex fan and going to drive it that way and see where i am at. Reading back on my last drive it went up to 210 at times while driving. Would cool down some if going faster but not low enough to where it should run. I'm really hoping that the flex fan cools it.
Rod
Click to expand...
I'm starting to give this one a look. 2 5/8 thick...
Screenshot_20190515-210519.png
 
rod7515 said:
Moparofficial, I appreciate the recommendation in trying to solve the over heating problem I have, however as I have stated many times in this thread I have only 2.5" of clearance between the pump and radiator. You are recommending a fan that is 4.5" thick (according to the summit specs sheet). It just wont fit.
The reason I went with 2 smaller fans is because I couldnt find a fan that would fit in between the pump and radiator. Its the same with the fan set that a link was posted for an ebay item in Australia. Very nice looking unit and Id love to use something like that however the 2 fans are to close to the center and wont fit.
Believe me when I say I wish I could use one larger electric fan.
Its the reason I had to try to make my own shroud. I didnt like my shroud, however I didnt have much choice on how to make it.
And my fans that I bought were not cheap junk and they move 2300 CFM each. Thats 4600 cfm! But the problem I believe is that they pull in from to small of an area. I need that much drawn thru the whole radiator.
The radiator I bought came with a really nice electric fan and shroud. Nice looking quality but i couldnt fit it between the pump and radiator.
I originally didnt think a mechanical fan would fit either and i didnt try one but after some suggestions on trying it I looked and I think I might actually be able to use one so thats going to be my next change.
Thanks
Rod
Click to expand...

I have the same clearance problems you have, I haven't run mine yet but Im following your thread close and preparing for overheating issues. My rad is a Griffin 2 row with 1.1/4" tubes and twin 12" fans. I moved the fans to the inside of the shroud to be closer to the rad plus provide additional clearance that i needed. Ive got a flowkooler WP and 180 thermasta in there.

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A408Cuda said:
I have the same clearance problems you have, I haven't run mine yet but Im following your thread close and preparing for overheating issues. My rad is a Griffin 2 row with 1.1/4" tubes and twin 12" fans. I moved the fans to the inside of the shroud to be closer to the rad plus provide additional clearance that i needed. Ive got a flowkooler WP and 180 thermasta in there.

View attachment 1715335847

View attachment 1715335848
Click to expand...

A bout the same set up on my 440/505 , the elec fans didn`t work for me .
I have a 2 5/8" tall clutch fan that will probly go in ur space , lots of fan sizes and configurations to fit it .
 
OK heres the update and what has fixed the overheating issue I had. I have removed the electric fans and shroud. I bought a 1/2" fan spacer from summit and installed a 15" flex fan. I put back in the standard 180* thermostat. I started the car tonight and let it sit and idle for 45 minutes.
The temp never went above 185*. I am not running a shroud. It is a fan only. The big difference is the amount of air it can pull from a much larger diameter. You can feel the air being pulled from in front of the radiator. You can feel a lot of air moving back across the engine. I am still running the 6" pulley on the water pump and a 6" pulley on the crankshaft so I am not over driving the water pump yet. I will once I add the dress up kit for the serpentine belt. I believe that I could keep everything cool with an electric fan if I could fit in a full size fan. But because there is not enough space between the water pump and radiator the small ones can not pull enough air thru a large enough radius in the radiator.
I will always keep an eye open for an electric fan that would fit in the small space I have because they are cleaner looking to me. But it would have to be super thin and It would also have to be at least 15-16 " or more. I wish I had a way of figuring out how much air this flex fan is pulling. That would give me a better idea on what an electric fan would have to move!
Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. Case Dismissed!
Rod
 
rod7515 said:
OK heres the update and what has fixed the overheating issue I had. I have removed the electric fans and shroud. I bought a 1/2" fan spacer from summit and installed a 15" flex fan. I put back in the standard 180* thermostat. I started the car tonight and let it sit and idle for 45 minutes.
The temp never went above 185*. I am not running a shroud. It is a fan only. The big difference is the amount of air it can pull from a much larger diameter. You can feel the air being pulled from in front of the radiator. You can feel a lot of air moving back across the engine. I am still running the 6" pulley on the water pump and a 6" pulley on the crankshaft so I am not over driving the water pump yet. I will once I add the dress up kit for the serpentine belt. I believe that I could keep everything cool with an electric fan if I could fit in a full size fan. But because there is not enough space between the water pump and radiator the small ones can not pull enough air thru a large enough radius in the radiator.
I will always keep an eye open for an electric fan that would fit in the small space I have because they are cleaner looking to me. But it would have to be super thin and It would also have to be at least 15-16 " or more. I wish I had a way of figuring out how much air this flex fan is pulling. That would give me a better idea on what an electric fan would have to move!
Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. Case Dismissed!
Rod
Click to expand...
That one I posted on post 142 I feel I might want to try. It sounds kind of right at the borderline as far as width for you. Also if I get it I would just want to replace the two smaller puller fans and have one. It says it's two speed. I measured my electric water pump and it was 1/2 in. more but it's not turning. That should take up any room that I would have between the two. I would need the extra half an inch for running the manual water pump.
 
rod7515 said:
OK heres the update and what has fixed the overheating issue I had. I have removed the electric fans and shroud. I bought a 1/2" fan spacer from summit and installed a 15" flex fan. I put back in the standard 180* thermostat. I started the car tonight and let it sit and idle for 45 minutes.
The temp never went above 185*. I am not running a shroud. It is a fan only. The big difference is the amount of air it can pull from a much larger diameter. You can feel the air being pulled from in front of the radiator. You can feel a lot of air moving back across the engine. I am still running the 6" pulley on the water pump and a 6" pulley on the crankshaft so I am not over driving the water pump yet. I will once I add the dress up kit for the serpentine belt. I believe that I could keep everything cool with an electric fan if I could fit in a full size fan. But because there is not enough space between the water pump and radiator the small ones can not pull enough air thru a large enough radius in the radiator.
I will always keep an eye open for an electric fan that would fit in the small space I have because they are cleaner looking to me. But it would have to be super thin and It would also have to be at least 15-16 " or more. I wish I had a way of figuring out how much air this flex fan is pulling. That would give me a better idea on what an electric fan would have to move!
Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. Case Dismissed!
Rod
Click to expand...
Your not done yet.
Drive the car.
The real test will be hot weather slow cruz'n or the worst stop and go driving.
 
Well I cant produce the hot stop and go traffic in hot weather yet because here in Pa alone have is rain rain and more rain!!
 
rod7515 said:
OK heres the update and what has fixed the overheating issue I had. I have removed the electric fans and shroud. I bought a 1/2" fan spacer from summit and installed a 15" flex fan. I put back in the standard 180* thermostat. I started the car tonight and let it sit and idle for 45 minutes.
The temp never went above 185*. I am not running a shroud. It is a fan only. The big difference is the amount of air it can pull from a much larger diameter. You can feel the air being pulled from in front of the radiator. You can feel a lot of air moving back across the engine. I am still running the 6" pulley on the water pump and a 6" pulley on the crankshaft so I am not over driving the water pump yet. I will once I add the dress up kit for the serpentine belt. I believe that I could keep everything cool with an electric fan if I could fit in a full size fan. But because there is not enough space between the water pump and radiator the small ones can not pull enough air thru a large enough radius in the radiator.
I will always keep an eye open for an electric fan that would fit in the small space I have because they are cleaner looking to me. But it would have to be super thin and It would also have to be at least 15-16 " or more. I wish I had a way of figuring out how much air this flex fan is pulling. That would give me a better idea on what an electric fan would have to move!
Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. Case Dismissed!
Rod
Click to expand...


I don't run a shroud either. As long as the fan is within an inch or so of the radiator, you don't need a shroud.

I just need to make a shield for the top of the fan. I never used to worry about getting caught in the fan, but I'm getting older. At 31 years old, I'm getting old enough to be more cautious.





There is a fib in there somewhere. See if you can find it.
 
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