It may just be come a word in the dictionary just like ain't ain't a word and i aint supposed to say it.
Exactly. lol
Lets talk Roller Cam Lifters.
- Thread starter Cudafever
- Start date
-
Exactly. lol
Thank you vary much. Just got threw reading. make a lot more sence now.
Apparently Mike Jones roller cams are ALL designed this way.
Any one want to take a stab at this one?
I forget the whys and wherefores, but I know the answer is in the MP engine book. Far as I'm concerned, anyone who has a Mopar should own the MP engine and chassis manuals. They may be dated, but they are worth their weight in gold.
I have it and i guess i should go look at it again but it just tells you you need to do this with a mechanical roller.
Mechanical roller just don't have the hyd in it.
So why can't i install my mechanical roller like i install my Hyd roller......why does the mechanical make it necessary.
Mechanical roller just don't have the hyd in it.
So why can't i install my mechanical roller like i install my Hyd roller......why does the mechanical make it necessary.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Because Mopar blocks are a crap shoot. The chamfer on the lifter bores and inconsistent placement of the bottom of the lifter bores to the cam tunnel, plus the big lift from a mechanical roller means that they can uncover the oil band either when closed or at max lift and the loss of pressure will kill the mains/rod bearings.
It's still possible to drill a smaller hole in the tubes to feed the lifters and pushrods, and having a smaller hole will limit loss of pressure if the lifter travels too high or low in the bores.
At least that's what I've read and been told.
Personally, for the cost of roller lifters and cams, I'd want a roller block for a roller build. Even just adding the head oiling hole to a Magnum block would give a better platform for a roller build, I think.
It's still possible to drill a smaller hole in the tubes to feed the lifters and pushrods, and having a smaller hole will limit loss of pressure if the lifter travels too high or low in the bores.
At least that's what I've read and been told.
Personally, for the cost of roller lifters and cams, I'd want a roller block for a roller build. Even just adding the head oiling hole to a Magnum block would give a better platform for a roller build, I think.
There's the answer that i was just not getting.
I had to have like .050" taken off of the base circle of my HYD roller cam so it wouldn't piss oil on the bottom of the intake.
And a mechanical roller has the potential to have much more lift and much more out of the hole.. ....... hmmmm still have more thought on that but will think on it a bit more.
I had to have like .050" taken off of the base circle of my HYD roller cam so it wouldn't piss oil on the bottom of the intake.
And a mechanical roller has the potential to have much more lift and much more out of the hole.. ....... hmmmm still have more thought on that but will think on it a bit more.
That's it ^^^^^^ I knew it was somethin about the lifter bores but couldn't remember. hughes Engines has a good article about it on their site if you look for it.
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Bushing the lifter bores negates the chance you will expose the oil band on the lifter and lose oil pressure. Plus bushes correct lifter bore locations and fix worn out bores that leak oil and kill oil pressure.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
But is an expense that many seem to try and avoid. I'd trust bushes more, but a roller block also has taller lifter bores to begin with.
As usual, it's all combo dependent and there's no way to tell if it's all going to work together until it's been assembled.
furrystump
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 2,125
- Reaction score
- 1,719
Not a fan of hyd roller lifter. Why are you choosing to run a roller cam? To snap the valve open to a usable lift faster. Which requires stout valve springs/valve train. Which are the enemy of a hyd lifter. Also they can allow the wheel to bounce which will kill the lifter quickly.
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Not every shop has the fixture needed to do Mopar bushes and it's about $900.00 to buy the tooling from BHJ IIRC. And maybe $500-600 to do the work plus parts (but the bushes are pretty cheap).
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
To me, that seems reasonable - 30-50% of the cost of typical block prep (ballpark, of course). But a lot of people seem to try and avoid it. $800 worth of insurance to know you won't lose oil pressure and know that you're getting accurate valve events seems cheap to me, personally.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If you are running a SFT or a relatively small roller cam you can get away without bushing the lifter bores. I've run an X block 8500-8800 without bushings.
As mentioned above, the tube in the passenger side gallery should be used any time you are using a solid lifter. I'd say at this point, you should be tubing the block and restricting oil to the drivers side even with hydraulic lifters. You just drill an .0625 hole in the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore.
Even with a brand new block, the leaks at the lifters are incredible. Take a used block, or end up with some .0010-.0015 small lifters and you have a massive set of internal leaks. The tube fixes that. And that's what counts for most guys. Getting control of the oil, where it goes and eliminating huge oil leaks.
If you are going to build a serious effort engine, you should bush the lifter bores because you are also correcting the bore axes while you are doing it.
As mentioned above, the tube in the passenger side gallery should be used any time you are using a solid lifter. I'd say at this point, you should be tubing the block and restricting oil to the drivers side even with hydraulic lifters. You just drill an .0625 hole in the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore.
Even with a brand new block, the leaks at the lifters are incredible. Take a used block, or end up with some .0010-.0015 small lifters and you have a massive set of internal leaks. The tube fixes that. And that's what counts for most guys. Getting control of the oil, where it goes and eliminating huge oil leaks.
If you are going to build a serious effort engine, you should bush the lifter bores because you are also correcting the bore axes while you are doing it.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
YR I grasp the importance and the mission of "tubing the block". What I am not clear on is where this plumbing physically is taped into the block. Got some pic's or a link?
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Ok let's clear up a couple of things
I'm not thinking of going to a Hyd roller, i am running a HYD roller.
Yes when i first started the motor the lifters were nois-e-R then i would have liked but smooth out after my first stomp with them.
I shift a 5800-6000 so HYD are within their limits
But i have ran then to 6800 rpm in a 1/4 mile just to get to the finish line. no power there but they held up.
After i went with the Hyd Roller......I kinda wish, that i had went mechanical roller, but they just seamed to complicated.
bushing the lifters is a great idea but i would never do it so i can turn 8000 rpm.....because, i can't see building a top end that could hole up to that.
Ironically my bottom end was balance to go 7500.............
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Who is the manufacture of the Hydraulic roller lifter that you are currently running?
I had brian at IMM spec the cam out for me.
The lifter that he wanted to sell me were back order, but he said because of the rpm i was running these should be fine.
It's a comp custom Hyd roller and HUG 5321 lifters
The lifter that he wanted to sell me were back order, but he said because of the rpm i was running these should be fine.
It's a comp custom Hyd roller and HUG 5321 lifters
YR correct me if I am wrong here. Aside from the large chamfer and oil band issue, a high lift roller cam coupled with an overly large oil hole in the bore can cause a leak also. My understanding is the relief cut in the lifter body for the roller may uncover the hole. Seems a guy would need lots of lift but blocks do vary.
Mine looked like someone was trying to make a funnel out of the top of the lifter bore.
And, The reason i had to have a .050 undercut cam to keep that lifter from coming to far up and causing a leak.
The chanfer was a hole lot more than .050 deep.
factory block that didn't have this chamfer could hold up to a hole lot more lift.
And, The reason i had to have a .050 undercut cam to keep that lifter from coming to far up and causing a leak.
The chanfer was a hole lot more than .050 deep.
factory block that didn't have this chamfer could hold up to a hole lot more lift.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
All true. Even if all that isn't present, there is still a big leak at the lifter bores you don't need.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
I just had Mike Jones spec me a cam and lifter package for my 422. I asked for a SFT and when I mentioned that my block was tubed he said he would not recommend using a SFT because splash oiling was not reliable enough.
I had one of these comp cam roller lifters hemorrhaging oil. When the intake lobe was around max lift. Well gonna have to block the passages, tube the other side.
Nice try as these lifters are the solid bodied, no oil bands version.
Hmm I’m gonna swap this lifter to another spot. It was fine; and holding around 70-80 pounds of pressure. No leaks.
I will blocking passages on this x block though. Or bushing the lifter bores.
Nice try as these lifters are the solid bodied, no oil bands version.
Hmm I’m gonna swap this lifter to another spot. It was fine; and holding around 70-80 pounds of pressure. No leaks.
I will blocking passages on this x block though. Or bushing the lifter bores.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I was under the impression that if you "tubed a block" that you were adding lubrication to lifters.
I lost.
-
