BigWhip
New to Mopar land
Hurry up. :wav:
I am old.
Whip:idea1:
I am old.
Whip:idea1:
Any one interested in the oiling mods I did?
- Thread starter Guitar Jones
- Start date
-
D-mailman
Well-Known Member
Well..........I am waiting to see if I can .. "understand" .
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
OK, here goes. First things first, I purchased a 5/16 and 1/2 inch aircraft drill bits, they are longer. You may look at some of these passages and find that they may measure 1/2 inch at the outward ends but inside the block they can neck down considerably.
First we'll start with the pump, it needs to be disassembled and this passage opened up to 1/2".
This is the 5/8 I.D. pick up from Canton that bolts directly to a Melling HV oil pump to go with the pan I'm using. My car is a chassis car so I can use a rear sump pan. You don't have too but you at least need to configure a minimum 5/8" I.D. pickup tube.
Next is the rear main cap, this passage will also need to be opened up to 1/2". You'll have to turn it over and drill from the other side as well. Round off the sharp corner inside with a die grinder and carbide bit, oil doesn't like to make sharp turns. Also make sure the passage out of the pump lines up with the rear main cap passage and is not being partially blocked. You'd be surprised what you find.
This passage has a soft plug in it a couple inches down. The passage is plenty big enough down to the plug so you don't need to drill to it, I'm uncertain how big the passage is underneath it though so I will be removing it and running the 1/2 drill bit through it. If you elect to do this measure the depth of the plug first so you'll know you get the replacement in the correct spot. I know this info is available somewhere but measuring first will keep you from having to look it up.
Also in this passage is another 90* angle where the passage going to the filter intersects. Use a die grounder and round off the sharp corner being careful not to damage the wall of the passage right next to the main bearing saddle. It's pretty thin there.
This is the passage to the oil filter that intersects with the passage from under the main cap. Drill this passage to 1/2 also.
This passage is drilled to the center of the oil filter out port, drill this into the center oil filter adapter port, when you look inside the center port from the oil filter you'll find that it's not drilled fully to a 1/2". From here you can round off the 90* corner with your die grinder.
This passage is plugged unless you want to run a remote filter. I don't see the point in it with a stock block because you can't run an extra oil line to the front of the engine anyway so for a drag car I don't believe it to be necessary. Either way drill this passage to 1/2 all the way to the passage that feeds the rear main bearing. This passage is not perpendicular to the bellhousing surface of the block, it slants towards the back a bit.
This is where you drilled to from the back of the block, make sure it's fully open inside, use a die grinder to round off the corner and open up right under the opening as you probably couldn't drill all the way in from the rear. Also make sure your oil filter adapter bolt is a full 1/2 inside.
Next we'll move to the front of the block and the #1 main. Here I'm pointing to the left side lifter galley passage. Since I'm blocking the oil to my tappets I'm tapping this hole to 5/16-18 to insert a set screw and I'll red loctite it in. This effectively blocks any oil to the left side tappets and keeps oil going to the crank.
Next I'll be tapping the camshaft feed holes from the #1 and #3 main saddles installing a set screw and drilling it 1/8 to restrict oil to the cam on those journals and keep more oil at the crank. I don't want to do the #2 and #4 feed holes as these also supply the rockers on my LA engine but if you have a magnum you can restrict them as well.
Now for you guys running hydraulics this is the best thing for you to do. Instead of blocking the oil from the main bearing saddle to the left side galley, block the oil to the #1 main saddle coming from the right lifter galley. You'll then need to drill tap and fabricate a line from the right galley to the left galley such as this. Use either 3/8 hard line or -6 braided line.
In addition to what I've pictured and posted I have also drilled the passage from the right lifter galley to the main saddles with a 5/16 drill on mains 1,2,3 & 4. You don't need to drill #5 as it's already big enough.
I'll be reaming the right lifter galley, tubing it and screening in the valley in the months to come so I'll keep updating as I go.
First we'll start with the pump, it needs to be disassembled and this passage opened up to 1/2".
This is the 5/8 I.D. pick up from Canton that bolts directly to a Melling HV oil pump to go with the pan I'm using. My car is a chassis car so I can use a rear sump pan. You don't have too but you at least need to configure a minimum 5/8" I.D. pickup tube.
Next is the rear main cap, this passage will also need to be opened up to 1/2". You'll have to turn it over and drill from the other side as well. Round off the sharp corner inside with a die grinder and carbide bit, oil doesn't like to make sharp turns. Also make sure the passage out of the pump lines up with the rear main cap passage and is not being partially blocked. You'd be surprised what you find.
This passage has a soft plug in it a couple inches down. The passage is plenty big enough down to the plug so you don't need to drill to it, I'm uncertain how big the passage is underneath it though so I will be removing it and running the 1/2 drill bit through it. If you elect to do this measure the depth of the plug first so you'll know you get the replacement in the correct spot. I know this info is available somewhere but measuring first will keep you from having to look it up.
Also in this passage is another 90* angle where the passage going to the filter intersects. Use a die grounder and round off the sharp corner being careful not to damage the wall of the passage right next to the main bearing saddle. It's pretty thin there.
This is the passage to the oil filter that intersects with the passage from under the main cap. Drill this passage to 1/2 also.
This passage is drilled to the center of the oil filter out port, drill this into the center oil filter adapter port, when you look inside the center port from the oil filter you'll find that it's not drilled fully to a 1/2". From here you can round off the 90* corner with your die grinder.
This passage is plugged unless you want to run a remote filter. I don't see the point in it with a stock block because you can't run an extra oil line to the front of the engine anyway so for a drag car I don't believe it to be necessary. Either way drill this passage to 1/2 all the way to the passage that feeds the rear main bearing. This passage is not perpendicular to the bellhousing surface of the block, it slants towards the back a bit.
This is where you drilled to from the back of the block, make sure it's fully open inside, use a die grinder to round off the corner and open up right under the opening as you probably couldn't drill all the way in from the rear. Also make sure your oil filter adapter bolt is a full 1/2 inside.
Next we'll move to the front of the block and the #1 main. Here I'm pointing to the left side lifter galley passage. Since I'm blocking the oil to my tappets I'm tapping this hole to 5/16-18 to insert a set screw and I'll red loctite it in. This effectively blocks any oil to the left side tappets and keeps oil going to the crank.
Next I'll be tapping the camshaft feed holes from the #1 and #3 main saddles installing a set screw and drilling it 1/8 to restrict oil to the cam on those journals and keep more oil at the crank. I don't want to do the #2 and #4 feed holes as these also supply the rockers on my LA engine but if you have a magnum you can restrict them as well.
Now for you guys running hydraulics this is the best thing for you to do. Instead of blocking the oil from the main bearing saddle to the left side galley, block the oil to the #1 main saddle coming from the right lifter galley. You'll then need to drill tap and fabricate a line from the right galley to the left galley such as this. Use either 3/8 hard line or -6 braided line.
In addition to what I've pictured and posted I have also drilled the passage from the right lifter galley to the main saddles with a 5/16 drill on mains 1,2,3 & 4. You don't need to drill #5 as it's already big enough.
I'll be reaming the right lifter galley, tubing it and screening in the valley in the months to come so I'll keep updating as I go.
HemiMark
Well-Known Member
.......
POS Dakota
Anti-Socialist
Where did you get that oil pickup and what is it for? Snazzy!!! That has to help a lot in itself!
Is that a HV pump? I have a standard volume because of the trend of everyone having too much pressure.
Is that a HV pump? I have a standard volume because of the trend of everyone having too much pressure.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
The pickup is from Canton as is the oil pan. These are more circle track pans but they work excellently for drag use as well if you can fit a rear sump pan. The only real draw back to them is their weight. They are steel and they are heavy.
Yes it's a HV oil pump because I've opened up most all the passages and I want to be able to pump a lot of oil to the crank to keep it alive at 8000.
UOP
Well-Known Member
Great write-up. Thank you very much for posting.
iggys68dart
Well-Known Member
yall give him time i am positive he will share he always had
tyler_s18
k-member
nice. what kinda oil pressure will you be looking at? this probably wouldnt be a good idea if you are gonna stay with a regular pump but i think all this with a correct pan would be great for any street or race car
moper
Well-Known Member
IMo, all decent mods. However, I'd like to add unless you have the larger pickup as he does, it's all work with no gain as there isnt enough volume available with either pump (std or HV) sucking thru a factory style pickup to cause the passages in the block to be a restriction in thier stock form. Also, the reason for the crossover tube as I understand it is not to help oil the tappets on the left side but rather to help the #4 main. #5 is fed from the main passage itself but #4 starves at high rpm and that cross over helps the oil turn and go down to the main bearing. I've done that mod on an engine that had issues with the #4 main showing signs of starvation and it solved it. I have a book from the early 80s that notes that reason in regard to a TA series race engine. All other books after that say it's for tappet oiling.
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 8,811
- Reaction score
- 3,746
Would starving the #4 main bearing have a tendency to starve the #6 cylinder (and #5) rod bearings before other rod bearings?? Or is it not the big of direct relationship.
Just curious. Asking because I just toasted a #6 rod bearing. -Well used and abused motor.
moper
Well-Known Member
IIRC #4 main feeds #6 and 7 rods.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Mains 2, 3, & 4 feed two rod bearings where as mains 1 & 5 feed only one rod. Many small block guys do not drill the #1 main to 5/16 but to 9/64. Most of these mods are done with a remote oil filter and a second oil feed line drilled to the right oil galley at the front of the block. Since you can't really do that with a stock block that I know of I've drilled the #1 main feed passage as well to 5/16.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
I should point out that there will be mods to the upper main bearing shells as well. The hole will need to be drilled to 5/16 and then slotted the length of the opening in the main saddle. The theory here is that a slot will allow more time to fill the crank passage even though I am using full groove bearings. I will also chamfer the leading and trailing edges of the slot. It's the same principle as chamfering the oil holes in the crank.
I completed mods on my rear main cap and oil pump today so I'll post pics as soon as I can. Sorry it takes me so long but my plate is really full. Living alone, working 60 hours a week, racing and volunteering at an animal sancturary really takes up all my time, not to mention a dog of my own and a house with a 1/2 acre to care for. There's just not enough time in a day anymore.
I completed mods on my rear main cap and oil pump today so I'll post pics as soon as I can. Sorry it takes me so long but my plate is really full. Living alone, working 60 hours a week, racing and volunteering at an animal sancturary really takes up all my time, not to mention a dog of my own and a house with a 1/2 acre to care for. There's just not enough time in a day anymore.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
OK, here is the drilled pump and smoothed edges of the outlet port.
I knocked the sharp edges off the inside of the passage as well.
Here is the rear main cap smoothed and the sharp corner inside rounded off although you can't see that. Make sure the passage lines up with the block passage on the cap to block mating surface.
And here is a pic of the Canton pan.
I knocked the sharp edges off the inside of the passage as well.
Here is the rear main cap smoothed and the sharp corner inside rounded off although you can't see that. Make sure the passage lines up with the block passage on the cap to block mating surface.
And here is a pic of the Canton pan.
dodgetkboy78
EDELBROCK HEADS SUCK!
I have here, a 90 block, with a casting flaw in the galley so it drains. #4 main, and #6 rod bearing died twice in my boat motor before I figured the hole in the galley out.
Good thread, thanks for the pics. Someone should do a written step by step thread on where the oil goes from the pan on.
And also to note, none of these mods do any good, with out the side clearances to shed the oil off of the bearings.
Good thread, thanks for the pics. Someone should do a written step by step thread on where the oil goes from the pan on.
And also to note, none of these mods do any good, with out the side clearances to shed the oil off of the bearings.
blue missile
Well-Known Member
GJ,
thanks for doing this. I am taking all of your pics and putting them together in a single doc as a guide for when I build the motor for the missile. Very good documentation. Thanks again.
Andrew
thanks for doing this. I am taking all of your pics and putting them together in a single doc as a guide for when I build the motor for the missile. Very good documentation. Thanks again.
Andrew
BigWhip
New to Mopar land
Very well done,
Thank you
Whip
Thank you
Whip
redfastback
Don't ask me... my garage is empty
Your mods are fantastic. I as well will be documenting this.
This is much better than Sanborns thread because of excellent pictures pointing to the mod at hand! This is golden.
DieWilde13
Well-Known Member
Thats a very good documentation and very interesting Thread!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the great info and your time. I like to think that's what this site is about. This fall we begin the build of the 408 for the Dart and will incorporate these mods in my high compression LA. Thanks again 75Sport
D-mailman
Well-Known Member
Excellent write up GJ. Welldone, Many thanks for the time it took to pull this up for us. Two thumbs up.
Terry
Terry
340 Dart
I don't know ****.
Thank you very much Guitar Jones.
I have read and saved Sanborns post about this from the other board but I have never seen a write up like this that had such excellent pics and was so easy to understand. :cheers:
I am printing this and sticking it in the filing cabinet. 8)
I have read and saved Sanborns post about this from the other board but I have never seen a write up like this that had such excellent pics and was so easy to understand. :cheers:
I am printing this and sticking it in the filing cabinet. 8)
-
