Need some help from a rust guru!

[halfafish]

My Dart had a few long-term rust issues, and then it sat out in the weather for a year or two before I got it. Luckily, I bought it and put it inside before the rust situation got too bad. Sorry ahead of time for not knowing the right terms for body parts, I have zero experience with body work.

I figure I will have to replace both of the rear quarters at the marker lights, the left is shot for sure, and the right doesn't look very good.

I will be placing an order with AMD for repair patches, so the shopping list is for quarter patch panels so far. I need help deciding if I need to replace the rear of the front fenders, right in front of the doors. There was a ton of pine needles behind this area, sitting there all wet and soggy forever. I got the mess cleaned out and don't see horrible rust looking in there with a strong flashlight. This is the passenger side, it has a few bubbles on the outside but it looks pretty minor.

Here is the driver's side, it looks worse with some fair sized bubbling.

The trunk pan looks good from above. Lots of surface rust but it will clean up OK. What's weird is this shot of the trunk from below. It's like the area delaminated, and half the thickness of the pan rusted and came loose, but the rest of the pan thickness is solid. Can this be cleaned up and maybe filled with JB Weld to give it some strength? It doesn't look like I need to replace the pan.

Any insight into fixing this stuff and stopping any rust cancer is appreciated. I'm holding off with my AMD order until I can get feedback on other parts I might need.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Spot weld drill the inner off and clean and paint behind everything or it will bubble out again. Some pics for you on what we did to make a like new fender out of a rusty one.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Take your time and the results are better

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Remember what ever you cut apart can be cleaned and welded back together after you clean the rust out from behind. A good spot weld drill should be your next investment . Get a Blair with a spring loaded tip. And a push spring spot weld center punch. Don't use a hammer.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Spot weld center punch. The best I've used. Hold the tip and pull back. Don't hold the spring unless you have a box of band-aids near by. Ask me how I know LOL

 

[Demonic]

Can this be cleaned up and maybe filled with JB Weld to give it some strength?

Don't bother with anything like that. You'll just trap water or dust. Sounds like you have access to a welder anyway. Get some 18 ga metal and patch it.

 

[Troub]

My Dart had a few long-term rust issues, and then it sat out in the weather for a year or two before I got it. Luckily, I bought it and put it inside before the rust situation got too bad. Sorry ahead of time for not knowing the right terms for body parts, I have zero experience with body work.

I figure I will have to replace both of the rear quarters at the marker lights, the left is shot for sure, and the right doesn't look very good.

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I will be placing an order with AMD for repair patches, so the shopping list is for quarter patch panels so far. I need help deciding if I need to replace the rear of the front fenders, right in front of the doors. There was a ton of pine needles behind this area, sitting there all wet and soggy forever. I got the mess cleaned out and don't see horrible rust looking in there with a strong flashlight. This is the passenger side, it has a few bubbles on the outside but it looks pretty minor.

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Here is the driver's side, it looks worse with some fair sized bubbling.

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The trunk pan looks good from above. Lots of surface rust but it will clean up OK. What's weird is this shot of the trunk from below. It's like the area delaminated, and half the thickness of the pan rusted and came loose, but the rest of the pan thickness is solid. Can this be cleaned up and maybe filled with JB Weld to give it some strength? It doesn't look like I need to replace the pan.

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Any insight into fixing this stuff and stopping any rust cancer is appreciated. I'm holding off with my AMD order until I can get feedback on other parts I might need.

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I think step one should be hitting all your area’s of concern with the grinding disc/wheel of your choice to get a good assessment on the rusted areas. Just finished some work on my rocker panels and the work needed became pretty evident once I got down to bare metal on the affected areas. Once you have a good look then you can decide on cutting, spot weld removal, ect.

 

[barbee6043]

^^^ I use 80 grit on a DA to sand it down. Anything coarser will leave bad sand scratches Any hole what so ever , even a pin hole, cut that out and replace with good metal. Realize, a lot of the metal rusts from the inside, not just the outside.
Also, many of our projects have been " restored" already a time or two with bad work.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Never grind paint off of a body. Grinders are used for welds and scratching metal for body work adhesion. I always paint remove the paint and blast the rust with crushed glass or glass beads.

Sand will warp the metal. Sand blast at night and watch the heat. You will see why you shouldn't. Grinding is even worse. If you paint remove the paint you will acually see what you have. Even a DA orbital sander heats the metal and hides previous work.

These grinder marks were under the original paint on this Duster below. We would have never seen this work done at the factory if we used a DA/orbital sander. The last coat of paint remover use a fine steel wool. If we would push this car out overnight only the grinder marks would rust. The unsanded sheet metal will not.

I have a Demon setting in a race trailer here since 2002 that many members have seen. The outer skin is just like this Duster and still no rust I primered only the weld and grinder marks. Every once in a while I would wipe it down with metal conditioner

 

[barbee6043]

Like said, 80 grit on a DA.

 

[j par]

When you talked about getting the car back together and getting it on the road and putting things back together in my mind I thought you were going in the wrong direction. This is your dream car that it needs to be done right. with that said I would be blowing it all apart every last nut and bolt... Fixing all the body work from the inside and getting the body perfect. Even up into sandblasting or like they're saying glass beading. Get an epoxy coat on the body itself and then start doing the suspension which is probably all rotted anyways. Then work your way up to the fenders the interior and finally the motor and transmission. If this is the one then this is the one.do it right the first time or you'll never be satisfied... My-2

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Blast only the structure do not blast the quarters , roof, doors or fenders, or hood inside or out unless severely rusted and then only do the rust. When we blast a car we only to the structure to clean it we never Blast ,DA. or grind paint off. Most body guys do it because its easy to Da a car down or feather edge it. I run over the body with a DA and 220 before epoxy prime but never remove paint with the DA it will build heat. But most important if you paint strip the car it removes all the body work and you can actually see what you have and where it was sanded prior to you owning it. A DA will only cover those previous sanding marks and you will never see what was there. This Duster was blasted Only the rockers to remove the paint and rust under and on the pinch weld. We did only the bottom of the one quarter and the front sub assembly. The car was mostly rust free .

 

[barbee6043]

^^ All just depends on how much time and $$ a person has, what his personal expectations are. I have seen many people make a car too perfect to ever drive and enjoy!!
I see some shops using the"Dustless Blasters" now, I guess I is a combo of water and sand??

 

[Oldmanmopar]

We tape off all the seams then paint strip before blasting. After most of the car was paint stripped we DA off the rest of the paint to the edges of the seams. We are not repainting these jams. only the bottom sill where the paint was wore off we blended them in. I have been paint removing these care since the 80's when I had the duster on the roof of the 72 blasted and they ruined every panel warping them with heat. Never blasted the outer panels again. If you do, then you will have to put many coats of primer filler and block sand the lines back in an A-body for hours. The less you Sand, grind , or blast these cars the sharper the lines.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

^^ All just depends on how much time and $$ a person has, what his personal expectations are. I have seen many people make a car too perfect to ever drive and enjoy!!
I see some shops using the"Dustless Blasters" now, I guess I is a combo of water and sand??

Had it done . Never again, Try and get that packed wet sand out of the rails and rockers, Or the roof and quarters. Never again.

It takes three days of turning a dry blast job on a rotisserie and sand is still coming out. Wet blast is there forever and holds the water so rust is inevitable

Chemical dipping the is worse if the body isn't electroplated instantly. it will seep out of the seams for years

I found over the years the way we do them is the most economical and easiest. We have bodies here that are completely stripped that are ready for a resto. Some don't need that. This bronze Duster is a driver and will be sold cheap. Blasting the surface rust off the bottoms of the rockers was the easiest. Cheaper then sand paper. If you notice we have a truck tarp under the car. we keep reusing the crushed glass. Less heat

Crushed glass flows out of the rockers and frames much easier also. Sand doesn't flow out and holds moisture. We have a couple blast cabinets. The cabinet with glass the vibrator keeps the table clear. On the soda or sand cabinet you have to wipe it off the table with your hand. The soda needs an agitator in the bottom so the cone don't pack from vibration. turns hard like clay.

 

[barbee6043]

You are basically correct, and I have tried it all over the decades. The sand, you never get it out! I tried chemically striping a hood way back in early 90's and it worked OK but I had to flood the insides of the frame with primer and paint. Not worth it all.
Back in the 90's, I had a guy with a commercial blaster that had done it for years We raised the cars up with a boon truck and he cleaned the bottom sides and the rails. One day he saw I had a 69 RR hood in the back of the truck. He wanted to blast it and I said H--L NO!! You will ruin it. Well he blasted it and never worped it at, all BUT he was probably one guy in a million that could have done it!! LOL
MY method is IF I have a survivor car (few an far between any more) with good OEM primer and it is GOOD, I will run a palm sander over it with something like 180-220 then epoxy primer, otherwise I DA it with 220 being careful of leaving sand scratches.
I have a steel horse trailer that needs some blasting and I would like to try that new Dustless deal or whatever its called, with it if I could find anyone doing it that is NOT in Houston!!!!

 

[Bodyperson]

We tape off all the seams then paint strip before blasting. After most of the car was paint stripped we DA off the rest of the paint to the edges of the seams. We are not repainting these jams. only the bottom sill where the paint was wore off we blended them in. I have been paint removing these care since the 80's when I had the duster on the roof of the 72 blasted and they ruined every panel warping them with heat. Never blasted the outer panels again. If you do, then you will have to put many coats of primer filler and block sand the lines back in an A-body for hours. The less you Sand, grind , or blast these cars the sharper the lines.

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When you say "paint strip" are you refering to chemical stripper?

 

[Troub]

We tape off all the seams then paint strip before blasting. After most of the car was paint stripped we DA off the rest of the paint to the edges of the seams. We are not repainting these jams. only the bottom sill where the paint was wore off we blended them in. I have been paint removing these care since the 80's when I had the duster on the roof of the 72 blasted and they ruined every panel warping them with heat. Never blasted the outer panels again. If you do, then you will have to put many coats of primer filler and block sand the lines back in an A-body for hours. The less you Sand, grind , or blast these cars the sharper the lines.

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That picture is awesome.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

When you say "paint strip" are you refering to chemical stripper?

I go to Walmart or Lowes and buy the cheapest brush on paint remover they have. I use new razor blades in a holder . Once you hit something and the start scratching the metal get a new one. Once you are down to the factory primer I put a heavy coat on and steel wool it off. then wash it with thinner.

If you notice above on the Duster we taped it off and did not remove the paint 1/2 inch from the jams or any opening. I only remove the paint with stripper from the large panels so not to heat them up and also get to actually see what is under the paint such as the factory grinder marks shown above. This car was original paint no rust out.

I do not paint strip any part of a jam or seam for fear of it getting in a seam. Only the flat panels. Cars that are round or do not have fine lines with a flat surface you can go at it with a sander. Do that with a flat panel with lines and you will round it. A good body man can hide the roundness to a point but it will never be flat.

I am 65 yrs old My eyes are not that great but I can tell when a Dart has been stripped with a sander. Unless it is done even and slowly with a coarse grit such as 80 and lower. But even then you should never go over a body line or you will take out the definition . Also never take the dents out behind the doors of a Duster/ Demon. They are there from the factory. Darts and Scamps don't have them. I won a show because the judges noticed the body was Factory perfect. with the factory dents. Notice I said "Was". LOL

I was proud of this car . I did the brown car the same way I will sell when its done or sooner. It will be perfect the only sheet metal that was removed was the fenders. I have two other perfect never rusted bodies for keepers. One was completely stripped to bare metal. I'll get some pictures of those cars when I get them out of the Race trailers this summer.

Rusted junk cars I strip for parts I don't care what came in them . Unless they are here for rust repair and then we spot weld drill them apart. I will never start with a rust bucket to keep for me again. Been there. You can chase the rust forever. And I would never be happy.

Everyone has there own way of doing things and they get to the same result. This is just my way.

 

[Bodyperson]

I go to Walmart or Lowes and buy the cheapest brush on paint remover they have. I use new razor blades in a holder . Once you hit something and the start scratching the metal get a new one. Once you are down to the factory primer I put a heavy coat on and steel wool it off. then wash it with thinner.

If you notice above on the Duster we taped it off and did not remove the paint 1/2 inch from the jams or any opening. I only remove the paint with stripper from the large panels so not to heat them up and also get to actually see what is under the paint such as the factory grinder marks shown above. This car was original paint no rust out.

I do not paint strip any part of a jam or seam for fear of it getting in a seam. Only the flat panels. Cars that are round or do not have fine lines with a flat surface you can go at it with a sander. Do that with a flat panel with lines and you will round it. A good body man can hide the roundness to a point but it will never be flat.

I am 65 yrs old My eyes are not that great but I can tell when a Dart has been stripped with a sander. Unless it is done even and slowly with a coarse grit such as 80 and lower. But even then you should never go over a body line or you will take out the definition . Also never take the dents out behind the doors of a Duster/ Demon. They are there from the factory. Darts and Scamps don't have them. I won a show because the judges noticed the body was Factory perfect. with the factory dents. Notice I said "Was". LOL

I was proud of this car . I did the brown car the same way I will sell when its done or sooner. It will be perfect the only sheet metal that was removed was the fenders. I have two other perfect never rusted bodies for keepers. One was completely stripped to bare metal. I'll get some pictures of those cars when I get them out of the Race trailers this summer.

Rusted junk cars I strip for parts I don't care what came in them . Unless they are here for rust repair and then we spot weld drill them apart. I will never start with a rust bucket to keep for me again. Been there. You can chase the rust forever. And I would never be happy.

Everyone has there own way of doing things and they get to the same result. This is just my way.

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That's a beautiful car. I remember seeing it in the Hot Rod magazine years ago. Do you realize the good paint stripper is not available any more? They took the methlyne chroride out of it and it is no longer effective. I can't find any good paint stripper anyway.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

That's a beautiful car. I remember seeing it in the Hot Rod magazine years ago. Do you realize the good paint stripper is not available any more? They took the methlyne chroride out of it and it is no longer effective. I can't find any good paint stripper anyway.

I just get the cheap stuff at Walmart or Lowes let it set a little and scrape with a blade. I was getting aircraft stripper at Auto zone the price doubled. Auto body supply house? Can't afford it.

 

[Bodyperson]

I just get the cheap stuff at Walmart or Lowes let it set a little and scrape with a blade. I was getting aircraft stripper at Auto zone the price doubled. Auto body supply house? Can't afford it.

Pretty sure its not available at Walmart or Lowes. It's not the same. It doesn't work. Really put a monkey wrench in my game. I agree with you totally on your operating procedures. A working product just isn't available any more. Sorry for the high jack but it is somewhat pertinent.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Well if it isn't they just discontinued it in the last week. I just bought some. The paint remover I use is in a brown can. It is just standard paint remover.

 

[barbee6043]

Yep they changed the chemistry in aircraft paint stripper just recently I understand.

 

[halfafish]

Many thanks to all for the input. Your tips are valuable and will help with the project going forward.

Don't bother with anything like that. You'll just trap water or dust. Sounds like you have access to a welder anyway. Get some 18 ga metal and patch it.

I do have a stick welder, but if I'm not the worst welder on the planet I could certainly give the winner a run for their money. If this and all the rest of the sheet-metal welding is beyond my capabilities, I will farm out the work.

When you talked about getting the car back together and getting it on the road and putting things back together in my mind I thought you were going in the wrong direction. This is your dream car that it needs to be done right. with that said I would be blowing it all apart every last nut and bolt... Fixing all the body work from the inside and getting the body perfect. Even up into sandblasting or like they're saying glass beading. Get an epoxy coat on the body itself and then start doing the suspension which is probably all rotted anyways. Then work your way up to the fenders the interior and finally the motor and transmission. If this is the one then this is the one.do it right the first time or you'll never be satisfied... My-2

A couple of valid points Mr. J Par, and I get it. Part of the problem was the initial hunt for the Dart. I already had a complete 383, 4-speed, and 8-3/4 for the car before I found it. I figured I was going to find a slant car to transplant the drive train, or maybe a 273 car. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I was going to find a very affordable, running, 340/727 car, albeit still with the original 7.25 rear end. That makes the situation more interesting. Now that I'm the proud owner of a 340 car, I may decide a healthy SB is enough for my street-fun desires and the BB will move on to another owner. Or maybe I decide to do the BB anyway. Maybe the auto is enough fun and the 4-speed hits the auction block. At this point, I'm going to get this thing street worthy and drive it for a while to decide what I really want to do. I'm stopping obvious deterioration and keeping the car indoors while I sort things out. Some stuff it doesn't make any difference when it gets done. Like the lights, horn, heater, ignition switch, brakes, etc all don't work. I'm aware I will be somewhat inefficient by doing things out of order, but I don't want to start a looooooooooong project at the moment. Get it driving, sort things out, decide where I want to go, then finish the car. It is indeed the dream car, and it will be done right in the end.