340 retrofit hydraulic roller lifters

[JDMopar]

I'm going to be running Morel hydraulic rollers in my 273. That may be what yours are that have been reboxed. I didn't have the same problem as the OP has, but my lifter bores were too worn and had to be bushed. They were done on a CNC machine, and all the bushings were drilled with an .060 oil hole to lube the lifters. I've seen a 360 run on the dyno with the same lifters and same bushing setup, and they were quiet. I'm just wondering why others would tick?

 

[512Stroker]

I'm going to be running Morel hydraulic rollers in my 273. That may be what yours are that have been reboxed. I didn't have the same problem as the OP has, but my lifter bores were too worn and had to be bushed. They were done on a CNC machine, and all the bushings were drilled with an .060 oil hole to lube the lifters. I've seen a 360 run on the dyno with the same lifters and same bushing setup, and they were quiet. I'm just wondering why others would tick?

A poor quality hyd roller lifter will bleed down to quickly causing them to "tick" or more like clatter on cold and hot start up. They will also bleed off ay high rpm causing poor top end performance. My engine would not rev past 6200 rpm. When I returned them to Comp they said they found no contamination and replaced them with solid rollers at no cost to me.

 

[Rat Bastid]

I'm going to be running Morel hydraulic rollers in my 273. That may be what yours are that have been reboxed. I didn't have the same problem as the OP has, but my lifter bores were too worn and had to be bushed. They were done on a CNC machine, and all the bushings were drilled with an .060 oil hole to lube the lifters. I've seen a 360 run on the dyno with the same lifters and same bushing setup, and they were quiet. I'm just wondering why others would tick?

In your case bushing the lifter bores is the fix. Just my opinion but bushing the lifter bores for anything less than a race engine is wasted money unless it has worn out bores like yours did.

Bushing a lifter bore won’t make a bad lifter stop ticking. Unless the bore is worn out. That was my point earlier.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

How good can lifter bores be after 50 years. And how long was that side run with no oiling.

Using a home kit will resize the lifter bore. but will it tru it to the location where it should be. The main reason you tru a lifter bore is not only to correct the diameter. But to put it in its proper location for performance. If you would ever see how far they are out of place your eyes would bug out.

That is why there is a fixture for the cam tunnel and one for the deck. Mopar and Ford are the worse. The fixture locates them them from front to rear and puts them at the proper angle. You can't screw up this way.

A CNC program is only as good as the person placing the block

And the tube in the block? I would have it remove at a machine shop with a reamer. That is what my son said he would recommend so your starting fresh. Then bush the lifter bores so they don't leak down around the diameter. My son just got a set of lifters for a big block ford. There was three different Diameters in one box. With no wear in the bore the smallest one just makes spec. This block is also 50 years old and there is plenty of wear.

Oppinions are like *** holes everyone has one including me. Take this advise and use it how you want. Usually when Hyd. lifters clatter it is from the bore to big.

Here is a video of a standard size of original bore reamer marks part way in the bore, front to back showing how far off the lifter bore was at an angle


How the fixture works with the tooling. There is no way to be more precise To locate the bores. look how the reamer is held top and bottom by bars. Locating the bore is precise no Human or Computer error can be added.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Guess I’ll be on the phone with Wydendorf machine in the morning. They sell a kit with piloted reamers and oilight bushings.

Be very careful Those kits ruined many engines. They only make the bushing fit no matter where the bore ends up. Your pilot will follow the worn bore. And you'll have to removed the tube first

 

[Rat Bastid]

How good can lifter bores be after 50 years. And how long was that side run with no oiling.

Using a home kit will resize the lifter bore. but will it tru it to the location where it should be. The main reason you tru a lifter bore is not only to correct the diameter. But to put it in its proper location for performance. If you would ever see how far they are out of place your eyes would bug out.

That is why there is a fixture for the cam tunnel and one for the deck. Mopar and Ford are the worse. The fixture locates them them from front to rear and puts them at the proper angle. You can't screw up this way.

A CNC program is only as good as the person placing the block

And the tube in the block? I would have it remove at a machine shop with a reamer. That is what my son said he would recommend so your starting fresh. Then bush the lifter bores so they don't leak down around the diameter. My son just got a set of lifters for a big block ford. There was three different Diameters in one box. With no wear in the bore the smallest one just makes spec. This block is also 50 years old and there is plenty of wear.

Oppinions are like *** holes everyone has one including me. Take this advise and use it how you want. Usually when Hyd. lifters clatter it is from the bore to big.

Here is a video of a standard size of original bore reamer marks part way in the bore, front to back showing how far off the lifter bore was at an angle


How the fixture works with the tooling. There is no way to be more precise To locate the bores. look how the reamer is held top and bottom by bars. Locating the bore is precise no Human or Computer error can be added.

Pretty easy to measure the bores. If the bores are bad you Bush them. There is not a thing wrong with the tube in there. There isn’t a single reason to remove it.

You first said to bush the bores to stop the lifters from ticking. That’s a waste of time and money because it won’t fix a ticking lifter.

That’s all I’m saying.

 

[512Stroker]

Pretty easy to measure the bores. If the bores are bad you Bush them. There is not a thing wrong with the tube in there. There isn’t a single reason to remove it.

You first said to bush the bores to stop the lifters from ticking. That’s a waste of time and money because it won’t fix a ticking lifter.

That’s all I’m saying.

Rat you hit the nail on the head.
The reason the lifters clatter is due to the poor quality control of the internal compnents of the hyd lifter and/or contamination. Hyd lifters are great oil filters they will trap the smallest of particles which will cause them to leak off.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

If a lifter leaks around a worn bore how does it build the proper pressure to pump up. They all lose pressure from one bad bore . Out of spec lifters and bore on a fresh motor will cause lifter clatter. I am not saying the lifter assembly wouldn't . But when you start a engine and it takes a long time to pump up the lifters it is usually due to pressure loss. This could be at one bore.

Truing the bore is a must if a cam lobe is wore . This is usually due to a lifter bore not in the correct alignment of the center line of the lobe preventing it from spinning which causes wear. If you tore that block down you will know if there is a problem. If there is not and the bores are wore then just bush them. If you didn't tear it down but bought it bare . I would suggest truing the bores. Why take the chance.

We just received a New aluminum block from DART . My son had to remove all the sleeves and re machine the block correctly. I would never trust installing all my new parts in a new block without checking everything. Pro crank from Scat over 28 grams out of balance. Most would just throw that crank right in.

There are different reasons for failures. What I am saying is never skip what you could have prevented. If My son says remove the tube or install the other side. I would listen to him. We get several engines here from other shops that fail. All types of failures and it is usually caused by assumptions. Things that were assumed to be OK or from builders that don't have a clue. When a engine fails there is a reason.
If you are freshening an engine that you tore down and everything looked good as far a wear patterns then you know what you have. Don't assume an empty new or used block you did not know its history of is good to go as far as being machined properly.

 

[512Stroker]

If a lifter leaks around a worn bore how does it build the proper pressure to pump up. They all lose pressure from one bad bore . Out of spec lifters and bore on a fresh motor will cause lifter clatter. I am not saying the lifter assembly wouldn't . But when you start a engine and it takes a long time to pump up the lifters it is usually due to pressure loss. This could be at one bore.

Truing the bore is a must if a cam lobe is wore . This is usually due to a lifter bore not in the correct alignment of the center line of the lobe preventing it from spinning which causes wear. If you tore that block down you will know if there is a problem. If there is not and the bores are wore then just bush them. If you didn't tear it down but bought it bare . I would suggest truing the bores. Why take the chance.

We just received a New aluminum block from DART . My son had to remove all the sleeves and re machine the block correctly. I would never trust installing all my new parts in a new block without checking everything. Pro crank from Scat over 28 grams out of balance. Most would just throw that crank right in.

There are different reasons for failures. What I am saying is never skip what you could have prevented. If My son says remove the tube or install the other side. I would listen to him. We get several engines here from other shops that fail. All types of failures and it is usually caused by assumptions. Things that were assumed to be OK or from builders that don't have a clue. When a engine fails there is a reason.
If you are freshening an engine that you tore down and everything looked good as far a wear patterns then you know what you have. Don't assume an empty new or used block you did not know its history of is good to go as far as being machined properly.

I think everyone agrees with you that the bores must be correct to have a proper valve train especially when using any type of hydraulic lifters.
The current issues that are being seen in the field is that the affordable after market lifters are of poor quality thus causing the majority of the leak down issues.
I can speak from personal experience that you can have perfect bores and also have hydraulic roller lifters that rattle like a *****.
After market parts are not what they used to be, most of the componets are sourced off shore where the provider of the componets have no control over the quality of the process and/or the materials..

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I think everyone agrees with you that the bores must be correct to have a proper valve train especially when using any type of hydraulic lifters.
The current issues that are being seen in the field is that the affordable after market lifters are of poor quality thus causing the majority of the leak down issues.
I can speak from personal experience that you can have perfect bores and also have hydraulic roller lifters that rattle like a *****.
After market parts are not what they used to be, most of the componets are sourced off shore where the provider of the components have no control over the quality of the process and/or the materials..

Like I said my son found three different size lifters out of 16 already. But all within tolerance if the bores were not wore. Bringing all machined surfaces to factory specifications or specifications for the parts being used is what should be done on all builds. You can mix up the parts from one make engine to another but you have to make the engine accept the part. Not all parts are the same.

 

[Junkdodge75]

I think everyone agrees with you that the bores must be correct to have a proper valve train especially when using any type of hydraulic lifters.
The current issues that are being seen in the field is that the affordable after market lifters are of poor quality thus causing the majority of the leak down issues.
I can speak from personal experience that you can have perfect bores and also have hydraulic roller lifters that rattle like a *****.
After market parts are not what they used to be, most of the componets are sourced off shore where the provider of the componets have no control over the quality of the process and/or the materials..

According to Lunati, the reason I had to wait so long on the cam and lifters is they source their material from Michigan and Michigan’s governor is a douche bag from what I’ve seen.

 

[70dart340]

I placed an order from Lunati for a cam and lifters last March. I never even got the courtesy of a phone call, e-mail, or text. I canceled my order in December. I'm working with Racer Brown for my cam now. I was a good customer of theirs. Never again. If you can't fill my order, let me know why. Don't ignore me. I'll never do business with them again.

 

[512Stroker]

According to Lunati, the reason I had to wait so long on the cam and lifters is they source their material from Michigan and Michigan’s governor is a douche bag from what I’ve seen.

Lunati does not manufacture lifters they source them from an aftermarket supplier. True a few are made in the us. The rollers in pic's look like Morel lifters manufactured by John Callies which are normally quality pieces. On the other side of the coin they could also be a chinese knock off's.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Good lifters are $2500 - $3000

 

[67autocross]

Good lifters are $2500 - $3000

Is that your Son who did those YouTube videos? They are excellent!