Summit Racing oil

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70Duster340 said:
Well, it's not that I was asking for someone to tell me what oil to use. I was originally asking if anyone here knew about the Summit Racing oil. But I welcome any opinions and/or tips from the membership. Lots of experience and knowledge that I tend to lean on from time to time. Nothing wrong with that.
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Ok, Spectro, if that's what Summit is using/rebranding, well, we were using years ago at Sunshine Speedway, dragging Harleys. That's the extent of my experience with it. Still sold at Indy Harley shops all around part of the bay. It's great stuff, I Can Say, fer that use.. as I've never ran in nothing else
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The people that designed these engines decided straight weight 30 was good. Then guys started racing ...higher oil temperatures...now let's say they lived in a cold area / region like Michigan or Detroit to boot.... so they used 20w 50.
All I can say is I would only go lower in much colder temperatures and for no other reason otherwise. I would go heavier due to extreme temperatures from high rpm operations or higher ambient temperatures and no other reason otherwise...Lmao..:rolleyes:
No one should need to tell you what oil to use be a big boy do your homework ...and use common sense that can rebound of history.
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That's why real racing oil is higher grades.
 
70Duster340 said:
Well, it's not that I was asking for someone to tell me what oil to use. I was originally asking if anyone here knew about the Summit Racing oil. But I welcome any opinions and/or tips from the membership. Lots of experience and knowledge that I tend to lean on from time to time. Nothing wrong with that.
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I didn't know, to answer your question and I'm glad you brought it up. Thanks.
 
I have 12 qts of the summit oil. 10w40. I bought it at a swap meet last year for 3 bucks a quart. I will use it in one of my engines.

With that said, Brian @ IMM Engines, who built my supercharged small block with a solid roller cam, only recommended 20w50. I know he did a few oil mods, and set up all the bearing clearances, so I will run what he specified for my particular engine.

I am curious to run a 10w30 or 40 oil though.
 
Racing oils come in many grades. There is zero reason to use a 20w50 grade oil in anything that is naturally aspirated unless the engine builder used clearance from the 1970’s. And that’s crazy.

Oils are some much better today than they were even 15 years ago it’s surprising so many people still think in 1970’s era oils.

And even though it may not appear as such, oils are changing rapidly. It’s hard to keep up with it. Just because the grade and the name on the bottle is the same what you buy today probably isn’t exactly what it was 3 years ago.

If you buy an oil based on its zinc content you will most likely buy the wrong oil. More zinc isn’t any better than less zinc.

The formula of the blend is more important than what one chemical is.

Zinc is a power killing additive. It has a purpose and is a necessary evil in engine oils. Like I said, more isnt better. Especially if someone is adding it to an oil. Some Tribologist spent big money and time developing the oil. Anything you add to it will affect the whole chemical make up of the oil and it will most likely be a bad thing.

Fortunately these engines will take much more abuse than most people think. So screwing up with an oil choice usually doesn’t have immediate effects on longevity.

I would sit down and call 6 or 10 oil manufacturers and ask them about what oil you need. Take notes. And then make a decision. The cheaper oils aren’t usually the best.

As an example, let’s say you have brand A oil. They build a nice 5w30 (they say). When you look at the numbers you can see that the oil is built on the low side of the grade. We are not looking at the 5 winter grade side of the oil. We are looking at the 30 grade.

Being that it’s built on the low side of the grade, as the temperature goes up (viscosity is temperature based, the hotter the oil the less viscous it is and there is no such thing as oil “weight”) the oil can and probably will drop out of the 30 grade and now be in the 20 grade. I suppose that’s ok IF you understand what that means. Or maybe it’s a bad thing. If you really need the 30 grade and this oil falls to a 20 if the temperature gets high enough then you have an issue.

In that case, you may want to use a 40 grade oil in that brand so when the temperature gets up it may fall out of the 40 grade but it will be a 30 grade oil.

On the other hand, you may find a certain brand of oil that is built on the high side of the grade. So you can use the 30 grade and it will stay a 30.

Or, maybe you can drop down to a 20 grade as long as it’s built on the high side and will stay a 20.

Just as an FYI, the grade that an oil fits is pretty wide. And an oil is only required to pass the test a percentage of the time. Say 6 of 10 times it’s tested.

Again, that’s why cheap oils are cheap. Cheap components. Skating by on the grade. Things like that.
 
So, you're saying that zinc content doesn't affect flat tappet lifters? From everything that I have read, the older engines need the zinc. This is why I have been researching this and inquiring here. This engine has been broken in, but not run at all since then. I'm just trying to get the best oil that I can afford so as to not ruin a fresh rebuild. Hence the questions about viscosity and zinc content.
 
Interesting how oils are so much better TODAY for our 50 YR OLD engines..that you have to ADD SOME ADDITIVE so that the flat tap cam will survive. Granted they've advanced oils...was it really toward 50 yr old flat tappet engines is the issue with that very general statement.
That was one big brain fart that danced itself right into comtridiction...like what happens when you type before thinking it through.
I'd take quotes and jump up n down on them but why bother, it speaks for itself.

If you need that last .0002 hp from oil... you more than likely aren't on this forum reading this discussion in the 1st place...that's out of this realm and even addressing it is so "cart in front of the horse" at this level its outlandish
 
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VR1 20W50 is what I use and will continue to use.
Hasn't failed me yet since the mid 70's when it came in the fancy can.
Engine failures seem more frequent with all these modern marvels than they did years ago.
 
70Duster340 said:
So, you're saying that zinc content doesn't affect flat tappet lifters? From everything that I have read, the older engines need the zinc. This is why I have been researching this and inquiring here. This engine has been broken in, but not run at all since then. I'm just trying to get the best oil that I can afford so as to not ruin a fresh rebuild. Hence the questions about viscosity and zinc content.
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I didn’t say that at all. What I said was too much zinc in the oil compromises the components used in the oil and how much of what component can be used.

That’s why I said too much zinc can be a bad thing. It’s not only a power killer it makes compromises in the oil that you may not want.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Interesting how oils are so much better TODAY for our 50 YR OLD engines..that you have to ADD SOME ADDITIVE so that the flat tap cam will survive. Granted they've advanced oils...was it really toward 50 yr old flat tappet engines is the issue with that very general statement.
That was one big brain fart that danced itself right into comtridiction...like what happens when you type before thinking it through.
I'd take quotes and jump up n down on them but why bother, it speaks for itself.

If you need that last .0002 hp from oil... you more than likely aren't on this forum reading this discussion in the 1st place...that's out of this realm and even addressing it is so "cart in front of the horse" at this level its outlandish
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Who said that? I specifically said NOT to use an additive. If the oil isn’t good enough get a better oil rather than adding some garbage to the oil to try and fix a garbage oil.

Certainly if you think you can only find .0002 hp from oil you’ve never tested any of it. And there is more to oil than hp.

I’ve changed oils on the dyno and the difference in blow by numbers was staggering. And that was two oils I wouldn’t have used. The lesser, big name oil is a favorite around here.

There is a big difference in oils. To think otherwise is foolish.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I didn’t say that at all. What I said was too much zinc in the oil compromises the components used in the oil and how much of what component can be used.

That’s why I said too much zinc can be a bad thing. It’s not only a power killer it makes compromises in the oil that you may not want.
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Too much Zinc is bad on the bearings, makes the oil acidic.
 
So, an oil that's already containing zinc is good, and additives are bad? Is there oil on the market that may have too much zinc?

Not trying to be a smarta**, just attempting to gain some knowledge.
 
fishmens67 said:
Have you tested Torco oils?
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Nope. A lot of the Driven oils and there was another one that was really good but I think it went tits up about 10 years ago. Or it got bought out by some other company.

I do want to test LAT oils if I ever get the time.
 
70Duster340 said:
So, an oil that's already containing zinc is good, and additives are bad? Is there oil on the market that may have too much zinc?

Not trying to be a smarta**, just attempting to gain some knowledge.
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All engine oils have to have zinc or they can’t be classified as engine oils.

And zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (thats really what it is...it’s not just zinc because without the other components the zinc wouldn’t do anything) used in an engine oil affects what other components and how much of those components you can use.

As I said earlier too little zinc will not only be hard in the cam lobes but it’s also a ring killer. The compression ring is lubed mostly by dry film lubrication, and that’s the ZDDP. Too little and you lose ring seal (the base oil and additive package also affect ring seal but ZDDP is a big part of compression ring seal) and get accelerated ring wear. Too much and you lose power and it changes how you build the oil relative to what additives and how much of those additives you can use.

Oil is a science. You can find not only power in oils but you can extend the life of parts that are under extreme duress. Like the top rings, valve guides, valve springs, pushrod cups and adjusters and things like that.
 
70Duster340 said:
So what was the issue that lead to lowering the ZDDP levels in modern oils?
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The short version is that the Federal government started requiring catalytic converters be warrantied for 120,000 (I think) miles. As the phosphorus component of ZDDP can destroy the cats, vehicle manufacturers started looking to reduce the chances of phosphorus getting into them. So they started lowering the limit allowed in oil to levels that are good enough for modern engines. Since flat tappet, overhead valve, high valve spring pressure engines are essentially a thing of the past, oil reformulated with anti-wear components other than ZDDP work just fine.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I didn’t say that at all. What I said was too much zinc in the oil compromises the components used in the oil and how much of what component can be used.

That’s why I said too much zinc can be a bad thing. It’s not only a power killer it makes compromises in the oil that you may not want.
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Where's the proof? Where's the evidence that points to zinc being 100% equivocally responsible for any form of engine damage whatsoever? And I mean BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. I want to see it.
 
S'cuder said:
Since flat tappet, overhead valve, high valve spring pressure engines are essentially a thing of the past, oil reformulated with anti-wear components other than ZDDP work just fine.
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Well, not a thing of the past for everybody, huh?
 
S'cuder said:
Nope, not for us. It's just another example of the OEMs kicking the old stuff to the curb. Onward and upward, to hell with the old boys.
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I don't know about onward or upward, either. LOL
 
RustyRatRod said:
Where's the proof? Where's the evidence that points to zinc being 100% equivocally responsible for any form of engine damage whatsoever? And I mean BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. I want to see it.
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Are you sure you can handle the proof ? lol
I believe the jury is tampered.
 
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