Cam comparison

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dukeboy440

dukeboy440

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So i have a comp Xe285XL with the following specs.

Thinking about upgrading to a roller cam set up. But I want something comparable, just not sure when it comes to rollers how they’re spec compared to flat tappets

what type of specs would I be looking for? I also want a nice deep sounding idle, so LAS can be different .

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I bought a solid flat tappet off of a member here on fabo, he went to a solid roller and after 2 grand the cam netted 17 more horsepower & he wished he stayed with the solid flat tappet.
Obviously not the comparison you're looking for but .... Kinda goes to show, spending more doesn't always get a lot
 
With as much power difference there is between solid and hydraulic roller, there's no way in hell I'd go hydraulic.
 
Hydraulic would require less support hardware than a solid roller. There are some people who are happy (so far, anyway...) with the results of using the lower cost Johnson solid rollers on hydraulic roller cams (with the lash set tight to compensate for the lack of clearance ramps) with the quality problems with all things hydraulic lifter as of late. But that's a whole different point of debate entirely. I would plan on talking to Jones, Oregon, or Racer Brown about a custom grind, though.
 
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MOPARMAGA said:
I bought a solid flat tappet off of a member here on fabo, he went to a solid roller and after 2 grand the cam netted 17 more horsepower & he wished he stayed with the solid flat tappet.
Obviously not the comparison you're looking for but .... Kinda goes to show, spending more doesn't always get a lot
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Not doing it for power pick up.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Hydraulic would require less support hardware than a solid roller. There are some people who are happy (so far, anyway...) with the results of using the lower cost Johnson solid rollers on hydraulic roller cams with the lash set tight to compensate for the lack of clearance ramps because of the quality problems with all things hydraulic lifter as of late. But that's a whole different point of debate entirely. I would plan on talking to Jones, Oregon, or Racer Brown about a custom grind, though.
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What do you mean by less support hardware?
 
Solid roller cams require much heavier springs and thicker walled pushrods than hydraulic rollers. You’ll be changing pushrods anyways, but it’s possible that you may just need to shim your existing springs to meet hydraulic roller requirements. But you’ll want to test them first to be sure.
 
Before making any recommendations, we’ll need to know about the rest of your combination like converter, gearing, compression, etc.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
How’s the street manners compare?
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Solid VS hydraulic has ZERO to do with street manners. NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. All of that depends on the specs of the grind. Be glad to throw some numbers out when you get ready.
 
The xe285xl not a good 4 speed cam. Good for a auto car. @Garrett Ellison gave you some really good advice in talking to the Rat or PHR on cam selection. Picking a cam has to do with not just the sound idle but with the whole drive train as a package. And that’s why I say the 285xl sucks as a 4 speed cam, cus that is what was in my 340.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Solid roller cams require much heavier springs and thicker walled pushrods than hydraulic rollers. You’ll be changing pushrods anyways, but it’s possible that you may just need to shim your existing springs to meet hydraulic roller requirements. But you’ll want to test them first to be sure.
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"Much"? There are some hydraulic and solid rollers out there that can take the same spring.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Hydraulic would require less support hardware than a solid roller. There are some people who are happy (so far, anyway...) with the results of using the lower cost Johnson solid rollers on hydraulic roller cams with the lash set tight to compensate for the lack of clearance ramps because of the quality problems with all things hydraulic lifter as of late. But that's a whole different point of debate entirely. I would plan on talking to Jones, Oregon, or Racer Brown about a custom grind, though.
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Can you give some examples of "less support hardware"? I'm not seein it.
 
Just heavier springs and thicker wall pushrods (.100-.140) dependent on springs. But pushrods will have to be changed anyways (legnth). And yeah, there are quite a few solid roller cams in the XE, Voodoo, and other hot street profiles that use the same springs as the hot hydraulic rollers. But it’s probably going to more spring than what you’re presently running, anyway.
 
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Garrett Ellison said:
Just heavier springs and thicker wall pushrods (.100-.140) dependent on springs. But pushrods will have to be changed anyways. And yeah, there are quite a few solid roller cams in the XE, Voodoo, and other hot street profiles that use the same springs as the hot hydraulic rollers. But it’s probably going to more spring than what you’re presently running, anyway.
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I wasn't doubting you, I was just tryin to figger out what direction you were headin. lol I think for his needs, a mild solid roller would be perfect. Maybe something like the MP 528 cam, but in a solid roller. That's 241@ .050 for the flat tappet. What would think comparable in a solid roller? I'm thinkin about ten degrees more.....maybe like 252 @ 050? On a 108 or a 106 since he did say he wanted some rumble.
 
-Boosted- said:
What would you be doing it for then? Seems like a waste of money if you are not trying to achieve a gain somewhere.... Just curious. :thumbsup:
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So I’m mostly worried about the flat tappet issue that seems to be plaguing the industry right now. Since 2020, out of the 23 in our car club, 19 have had their flat tappets wipe. And some of these guys have been been hot rods since the 50s.

The last one that just had his wipe was in an engine built for his drag car by a professional Indy car team in Speedway. Last 14 miles after breaking in on the dyno. Hydraulic lifter failed
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Just heavier springs and thicker wall pushrods (.100-.140) dependent on springs. But pushrods will have to be changed anyways. And yeah, there are quite a few solid roller cams in the XE, Voodoo, and other hot street profiles that use the same springs as the hot hydraulic rollers. But it’s probably going to more spring than what you’re presently running, anyway.
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Well right now, I’m still assembling the heads. They’re eddy performer RPMs. But I’ve upgraded the valves, retainers and locks. Springs are rated for the comp cam with spring rate but I can always upgrade that too.

Haven’t ordered the push rods yet or even installed the cam so if I make the swap, it’ll be painless minus the wallet impact
 
RustyRatRod said:
Solid VS hydraulic has ZERO to do with street manners. NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. All of that depends on the specs of the grind. Be glad to throw some numbers out when you get ready.
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Ready when you are.

Combo:
440 bored .030 over
Forged crank, Ly rods, forged pistons, decked to .03 .
Eddy performer RPM 84 CC heads, CR works out to be 10.0:1 give or take depending on the gasket compression.

Backed by a t56 magnum, and a Dana 60 with 4.10 with tru trac limited slip.

Vacuum isn’t a concern, running a hydroboost.

Street/strip/ auto X all purpose dodge dart.
 
Scody21 said:
The xe285xl not a good 4 speed cam. Good for an auto car. @Garrett Ellison gave you some really good advice in talking to the Rat or PHR on cam selection. Picking a cam has to do with not just the sound idle but with the whole drive train as a package. And that’s why I say the 285xl sucks as a 4 speed cam, cus that is what was in my 340.
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I had my XE285HL modified by Comp to 108 instead of the normal 110 it is ground on. This increased low end torque a little bit. More torque can be found in adding collector length. This is dependent on the header used and I’d suggest a dyno to find what’s right.
Garrett Ellison said:
Just heavier springs and thicker wall pushrods (.100-.140) dependent on springs. But pushrods will have to be changed anyways. And yeah, there are quite a few solid roller cams in the XE, Voodoo, and other hot street profiles that use the same springs as the hot hydraulic rollers. But it’s probably going to more spring than what you’re presently running, anyway.
Click to expand...
Thicker pushrods aren’t needed by I’d highly suggest it on any cam to keep deflection as low as possible which translates into more power through accurate cam timing and actually getting the valves to do what the cam is ground on and what you would expect and get. This can be an issue dependent if n the pushrod diameter, length & pushrod hole size in the head. What can and can not be modified.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I had my XE285HL modified by Comp to 108 instead of the normal 110 it is ground on. This increased low end torque a little bit. More torque can be found in adding collector length. This is dependent on the header used and I’d suggest a dyno to find what’s right.

Thicker pushrods aren’t needed by I’d highly suggest it on any cam to keep deflection as low as possible which translates into more power through accurate cam timing and actually getting the valves to do what the cam is ground on and what you would expect and get. This can be an issue dependent if n the pushrod diameter, length & pushrod hole size in the head. What can and can not be modified.
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So with all that said. Will the Eddy heads be able to run larger than stock diameter ? That’s one thing on them I didn’t pay much attention too
 
@dukeboy_318 The rhythm of your exhaust note is given by the LSA of the cam. The sound at the tailpipe end is mostly due to the muffler though header and exhaust pipe diameter play a small part.

The smaller the number on the LSA will normally lead to an idle that has a chopping sound. More directly related is the amount of overlap. More overlap, the rougher the idle.

Since vacuum isn’t a concern, a cam with a LSA of 106. The amount of overlap should be somewhere between 70 - 90 degrees. The more overlap, if you can find that information, will lead to 2 things, a rougher idle and a higher rpm band where peak power is made.

If you like where your current or past cam performs AND you want a slight rise in high end rpm power, increase the overlap. If your 440 intake valve is smaller than 2.19, increase the LSA by 2*’s max.

The difference between a hydraulic and a roller depends on the build. Your build is mild with the 10-1 ratio and cylinder head choice. I don’t see a big gain at all as also mentioned above, 17 hp is not a lot.

The choice of cam style is purely your choice. Build it once and don’t stray from the plan. It’ll only cost you more money in 90% of the time.

I have no experience with big block heads. You’ll have to wait for the been there and done that crew to show up. BUT! I can tell you about my small block head adventures. Most pushrod holes will accept a larger pushrod without much ram fair if any at all. However, a switch from a hydraulic or SFT cam to a roller or any style will require a shorter pushrod. The PROBLEM is the taller lifter creating an aggravated angle of the pushrod that will collide with the cylinder head in the pushrod tube. While the rod is not hard even with a tiny dremel die grinder, a real die grinder should be used.

You can easily run a stock diameter P-rod at a thicker wall & a stock diameter. I’m not sure if a larger 3/8 diameter P-rod will work OOTB with a HFT/SFT cam & the Edelbrock heads.
 
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