Z-Bar alignment issues

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Bob Jasinski

Bob Jasinski

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I've got a Z-Bar alignment issue that's driving me crazy on my '65 FS project. This is a conversion from auto to 4 speed, using all original or reproduction parts. The ball stud mount on the inner fender was purchased used from a very knowledgeable guy, installed easily in the factory holes and fits like it was born there. The ball stud on the bell housing matches the BSB478 on Brewers site for '64-'66 small block 273. The bellhousing is the correct 9-1/2 clutch type (10" clutch installed). Front motor mounts are new NOS with correct part numbers on them, the rear mount is a new reproduction from Brewer's. The engine and trans seem to be setting too high, but since the mounts are all new I would expect it to be a bit high, but in range. Not so. The Z-bar is parallel to the frame rail but not level, it sits high on the transmission, so high that I can't get the linkage clip on to the push rod. Pictures include a shot of the bell ball stud before engine was installed.



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I have a 65 Barracuda bell but I'm not sure if it still has the ball. I'm at work. The one pictured is the one out of my parts car.
 
jeff alder said:
That ball stud bracket looks suspect to me Bob. It looks like the ball is too close to the bolts.
View attachment 1716433268
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I agree, my bell ball mount is different from your picture, but mine is the same one pictured for 273 small block on Brewer's site:

www.brewersperformance.com

1964-66 A-BODY SMALL BLOCK 273 V8 BELLHOUSING BALLSTUD/BRACKET - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission & Component Specialists

1964-66 A-BODY SMALL BLOCK 273 V8 BELLHOUSING BALLSTUD/BRACKET
www.brewersperformance.com www.brewersperformance.com
 

Can the engine be shifted slightly up on the pass side, dropping the drivers side a little.

If you put it together and the action is free and works properly, maybe you won't be able top get it level. As long as it works right. These cars have some horrible tolerances when built.
 
crackedback said:
Can the engine be shifted slightly up on the pass side, dropping the drivers side a little.

If you put it together and the action is free and works properly, maybe you won't be able top get it level. As long as it works right. These cars have some horrible tolerances when built.
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The Z-bar doesn't move much, I can't even get the retainer clip on, it's too close to the bellhousing. There must be an incorrect part causing it but I don't know which one. Raising the engine on one side might help (although I'm not sure how I would do that) or a lower rear crossmember/rear mount.
 
I fixed the problem. I loosened up the two main engine support bolts that attach to the K-Frame. Lifted the right side with a jack and 2 X 6 to rotate it a bit, and then torqued it down to its new location. That freed up the linkage, no more binding. I didn't realize the K-frame holes are oblong to allow for movement. Thanks to Dan Brewer and Crackedback for the suggestion!
 
There's more there than that, up to 1/2" with the bolts and brackets at the engine block ears. No one ever seems to believe it.
 
I'm having a bit of a problem with the Z-bar centering. The Z-bar seal on the bell side is in nicely but the frame side seal is exposed and won't push in. Something is keeping the Z-bar shifted towards the bell, and I think its the pedal to Z-bar link. That link can go in 4 different ways, one end has a bent offset, the other end just has an offset with no bend. Which end and side goes to the Z-bar?
 
Bob Jasinski said:
I'm having a bit of a problem with the Z-bar centering. The Z-bar seal on the bell side is in nicely but the frame side seal is exposed and won't push in. Something is keeping the Z-bar shifted towards the bell, and I think its the pedal to Z-bar link. That link can go in 4 different ways, one end has a bent offset, the other end just has an offset with no bend. Which end and side goes to the Z-bar?
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The frame side of the z-bar has holes where the wire snaps over the tube, and locks into the bearing halves. This keeps it from moving right to left.
Select by Category - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission & Component Specialists

1962 A body.PNG


FRAME BALLSUD-INSTALLED.jpg
 
[Damn too slow....:) what he said]

yes that is a problem that causes you not to be able to fit the clip on the pushrod eye
or to destroy it with 2 or 3 presses of the clutch peddle

usually its a case of the retainer wire ends not being in the groove of the nylon bushing shells.

put nylon shells on ball stud on chassis side
push z bar up and cram the seal up against the end. the tube should be right up close, nearly on to the chassis. then fit the retainer wire clip with its hook ends into the holes
with the tube in this position they will not seat... because they are sitting against the body of the nylon shells
slowly move the tube 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch in towards the bell and the ends of the retainer wire should seat into their groove in the shells.

once you have it right you should not be able to move the z bar tube towards the bell housing side, or indeed back towards the chassis side, and it should look like there is too much space at the bellhousing end.

I do this procedure with the bellhousing stud not mounted to the bell, but with it installed with its nylon bushes into the z bar tube

once happy bolt up the bellhousing mount.

the one way to test if you have it right is to try the clutch. If you ping off or destroy the clip that holds the pushrod to the Z bar arm, your Z bar tube is still positioned too far inboard.

once you have this right it will give a nice parallel pushrod under the car (straight eye pushrod) and it will be obvious which way your peddle to z bar upper arm link goes
 
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Dan Brewer said:
The frame side of the z-bar has holes where the wire snaps over the tube, and locks into the bearing halves. This keeps it from moving right to left.
Select by Category - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission & Component Specialists

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View attachment 1716434399
Dave999 said:
[Damn too slow....:) what he said]

yes that is a problem that causes you not to be able to fit the clip on the pushrod eye
or to destroy it with 2 or 3 presses of the clutch peddle

usually its a case of the retainer wire ends not being in the groove of the nylon bushing shells.

put nylon shells on ball stud on chassis side
push z bar up and cram the seal up against the end. the tube should be right up close, nearly on to the chassis. then fit the retainer wire clip with its hook ends into the holes
with the tube in this position they will not seat... because they are sitting against the body of the nylon shells
slowly move the tube 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch in towards the bell and the ends of the retainer wire should seat into their groove in the shells.

once you have it right you should not be able to move the z bar tube towards the bell housing side, or indeed back towards the chassis side, and it should look like there is too much space at the bellhousing end.

I do this procedure with the bellhousing stud not mounted to the bell, but with it installed with its nylon bushes into the z bar tube

once happy bolt up the bellhousing mount.

the one way to test if you have it right is to try the clutch. If you ping off or destroy the clip that holds the pushrod to the Z bar arm, your Z bar tube is still positioned too far inboard.

once you have this right it will give a nice parallel pushrod under the car (straight eye pushrod) and it will be obvious which way your peddle to z bar upper arm link goes
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Click to expand...

Now I get it, thanks Dan & Dave very much for the feedback. Seems obvious now and makes a lot of sense.
 
I rebuilt my pedal assembly using new plastic bushings lubed with silicone grease. I noticed in the service manual yesterday that 6 cyl got the nylon bushings, V8s got needle bearings. Was this only for the B body cars in '65?
 
Bob Jasinski said:
I rebuilt my pedal assembly using new plastic bushings lubed with silicone grease. I noticed in the service manual yesterday that 6 cyl got the nylon bushings, V8s got needle bearings. Was this only for the B body cars in '65?
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B-body only. There were no A-body needle bearings in the clutch until 1967.
 
I think I've got it all sorted out, but my Z-bar is resting against the starter when the clutch is released. Is that normal?
 
Well i can't properly help with that, mine is a Right hand drive car so the clutch is on the opposite side to the starter.....

is it adjusted properly and do you have the spring in place

spring runs from fork to a cast in bellhousing boss, like a small thumb. there is also a little cut out in the fork to catch the spring.
The spring pulls the fork forward and helps keep the peddle up

all i can think of

6-27-5 in the parts diag.

few different springs as well... dunno if same action different style, or model specific for different sized bell housing and fork, having a RHD australian car i have to buy my USA sourced stuff, based on pictures and guesswork, rather than model.

presume this is the top arm . although its nearly always the wrong thing to do... there is more scope for a bit of a bend in the top arm to help centralise the pushrod to the peddle. so it runs through the centre of the hole in the bulkhead. might keep it off the side of the starter

or you have a custom starter..?

rock the engine over to the right a bit more and that will level up the z bar and move the upper arm a fraction of an inch away....

maybe?

Dave
 
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Dave999 said:
Well i can't properly help with that, mine is a Right hand drive car so the clutch is on the opposite side to the starter.....

is it adjusted properly and do you have the spring in place

spring runs from fork to a cast in bellhousing boss, like a small thumb. there is also a little cut out in the fork to catch the spring.
The spring pulls the fork forward and helps keep the peddle up

all i can think of

6-27-5 in the parts diag.

few different springs as well... dunno if same action different style, or model specific for different sized bell housing and fork, having a RHD australian car i have to buy my USA sourced stuff, based on pictures and guesswork, rather than model.

presume this is the top arm . although its nearly always the wrong thing to do... there is more scope for a bit of a bend in the top arm to help centralise the pushrod to the peddle. so it runs through the centre of the hole in the bulkhead. might keep it off the side of the starter

or you have a custom starter..?

rock the engine over to the right a bit more and that will level up the z bar and move the upper arm a fraction of an inch away....

maybe?

Dave
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Dave, Thanks for commenting, and it would definitely be different on a right hand drive car. The starter is rebuilt, but 100% stock. I'm convinced I've now got everything installed correctly, and it all seems to be adjusted and working properly. The starter acts as a stop for the Z-bar/clutch rod assembly, and the clutch rod spring keeps it against the starter when the clutch is released.
 
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