Cracked piston or piston pin noise. A worn/loose pin often has a 'double tap' noise as the piston comes to TDC & reverses direction. Get an old spark plug & grind a large groove up the threads. Idea is bleed off some compression. Install plug, but not the plug lead. Run engine & see if noise changes.
360 Block Lifter Ticking
- Thread starter Jim Kueneman
- Start date
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Is there an incorrect way to install this disk? There’s a raised circle around the center of it. If the raised section is up, could that cause it not to build pressure in the reservoir inside the lifter above the ball?
That's a good question and one that I do not know the answer to. Maybe @NC Engine Builder Sean can enlighten us.
Reason is it still seems like that new lifter is bleeding down. I did pull it apart to inspect it and don’t recall which way I put that disk in.
I have a new one here if you'd like me to disassemble it and see.
That would be great. Thanks Rusty.
I disassembled mine and the embossed (raised) circle was installed facing UP.
That disk is the pumping mechanism for oiling through the prod. It can go either way. The pressure that the lifter builds up to maintain zero clearance & quiet operation is below the inner piston, not above it.
Jim, if it's the same lifter not pumping up again, I would be looking strongly at that lifter bore and associated oil supply galleys and or holes for obstruction.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
or the piston inside is sticking.... all i can come up with...
designed for no or low detergent oil and now we use oil that keeps a lot of the particulates suspended...some certainly get through the filter.
for mys sins i have 2 hemi 265 engines from Australia that use the same lifters, that do this consistently. 2 engine doesn't make it the Rule but 2 in the hands of the same fella....
standard oil pump is governed by a spring/bypass valve that allows no more than about 55-60 of oil pressure and mainly settles to 40 when hot. avoids winding the impeller or drive gear off the oil pump shaft
one engine a worn out old bag of nails the other rebuilt and time and effort put in to make sure it was all good.
didn't matter what I did about preload the things would pump up to a position where the clearance was still just too much, yes they pump up but in a lacklustre way like they can't be bothered
after a lot of work i gave up, went solid lifter with adjustable rockers
they still rattle abit but not as bad as before
and this is why these motors get called rattleys in Oz....
Presume by design they have a potential to do this and something has made it worse over the years, oil modern lifters or ware....
Chrysler Oz only did experimental engines with solid lifters so no real spec for clearance shared with the public, so all we have is what a modern the cam grinder says, and he usually says 20 thou on inlet and exhaust. When they actually they could probably benefit from something closer to slant 6 spec
i did an awful lot of work to find out why one would rattle one day and another would pick up the batton and do it next day only to have 3 doing the day after.....
followed by a week of blissful silence
absolutely infuriating
i.e i feel your pain but i can't help
other than take them out clean them out and try running standard sae 20 or 30 with little or no detergent or whatever a 360 was designed for,
which is probably a bad move given advances in oil tech
Dave
designed for no or low detergent oil and now we use oil that keeps a lot of the particulates suspended...some certainly get through the filter.
for mys sins i have 2 hemi 265 engines from Australia that use the same lifters, that do this consistently. 2 engine doesn't make it the Rule but 2 in the hands of the same fella....
standard oil pump is governed by a spring/bypass valve that allows no more than about 55-60 of oil pressure and mainly settles to 40 when hot. avoids winding the impeller or drive gear off the oil pump shaft
one engine a worn out old bag of nails the other rebuilt and time and effort put in to make sure it was all good.
didn't matter what I did about preload the things would pump up to a position where the clearance was still just too much, yes they pump up but in a lacklustre way like they can't be bothered
after a lot of work i gave up, went solid lifter with adjustable rockers
they still rattle abit but not as bad as before
and this is why these motors get called rattleys in Oz....
Presume by design they have a potential to do this and something has made it worse over the years, oil modern lifters or ware....
Chrysler Oz only did experimental engines with solid lifters so no real spec for clearance shared with the public, so all we have is what a modern the cam grinder says, and he usually says 20 thou on inlet and exhaust. When they actually they could probably benefit from something closer to slant 6 spec
i did an awful lot of work to find out why one would rattle one day and another would pick up the batton and do it next day only to have 3 doing the day after.....
followed by a week of blissful silence
absolutely infuriating
i.e i feel your pain but i can't help
other than take them out clean them out and try running standard sae 20 or 30 with little or no detergent or whatever a 360 was designed for, which is probably a bad move given advances in oil tech
Dave
But what are the chances of the old lifter he took out and the new lifter he put back in the same hole doing the same thing? Pretty low......there I know, but pretty dang low.or the piston inside is sticking.... all i can come up with...
designed for no or low detergent oil and now we use oil that keeps a lot of the particulates suspended...some certainly get through the filter.
for mys sins i have 2 hemi 265 engines from Australia that use the same lifters, that do this consistently. 2 engine doesn't make it the Rule but 2 in the hands of the same fella....
standard oil pump is governed by a spring/bypass valve that allows no more than about 55-60 of oil pressure and mainly settles to 40 when hot. avoids winding the impeller or drive gear off the oil pump shaft
one engine a worn out old bag of nails the other rebuilt and time and effort put in to make sure it was all good.
didn't matter what I did about preload the things would pump up to a position where the clearance was still just too much, yes they pump up but in a lacklustre way like they can't be bothered
after a lot of work i gave up, went solid lifter with adjustable rockers
they still rattle abit but not as bad as before
and this is why these motors get called rattleys in Oz....
Presume by design they have a potential to do this and something has made it worse over the years, oil modern lifters or ware....
Chrysler Oz only did experimental engines with solid lifters so no real spec for clearance shared with the public, so all we have is what a modern the cam grinder says, and he usually says 20 thou on inlet and exhaust. When they actually they could probably benefit from something closer to slant 6 spec
i did an awful lot of work to find out why one would rattle one day and another would pick up the batton and do it next day only to have 3 doing the day after.....
followed by a week of blissful silence
absolutely infuriating
i.e i feel your pain but i can't help
which is probably a bad move given advances in oil tech
Dave
Dave999
Well-Known Member
its a puzzle i had new lifters in mine i broke all the rules and ran old lifters in the wrong holes
no cam wipe, but clacky continued in its random and annoying way.
i adjusted the rocker height
swapped rockers and mounts (ball studs on mine, got studs seperate balls and posi locks)
checked pushrods
i could see no physical issue with clearances in the bore.....
i had the lifters in bits
i too had no idea which way to put the metering plate back in due to variance between sets
i was genuinely baffled and gave up...
i could have shimmed the spring in my pump to peg the oil pressure to max, but id ruin my pump and cam....
hence my only guess something to do with the oil or
My oil was foaming maybe foamy oil won;t pump up a lifter but you would expect low pressure issues all over the place.
i'm sure there is a simple reason i could not find it
Dave
no cam wipe, but clacky continued in its random and annoying way.
i adjusted the rocker height
swapped rockers and mounts (ball studs on mine, got studs seperate balls and posi locks)
checked pushrods
i could see no physical issue with clearances in the bore.....
i had the lifters in bits
i too had no idea which way to put the metering plate back in due to variance between sets
i was genuinely baffled and gave up...
i could have shimmed the spring in my pump to peg the oil pressure to max, but id ruin my pump and cam....
hence my only guess something to do with the oil or
My oil was foaming maybe foamy oil won;t pump up a lifter but you would expect low pressure issues all over the place.
i'm sure there is a simple reason i could not find it
Dave
Going to check the oil pressure today.
My machine shop buddy that built this engine says it would take a huge chunk of a rag getting sucked up to block the passages. They are very larger according to him. Remember this engine is new(ish) and is like new inside _zero_ sludge.
I remember, but still, sometimes stuff just happens. At this point, I'd discount nothing and check everything.
After talking to my machine shop buddy we went down a few paths. Checked oil pressure, 75 PSI at an idle. After I did that I noticed it was not as noisy (the valve cover was off) and when I shut it off it was pumped up and did not bleed back fast. We decided I should put the valve cover on an drive it. After installing the valve cover and fixing a few other things (tail lights stayed on and fried the bulbs lucky I had short UTV mini 1157's and it did not destroy the lenses). Also for some insane reason it was so lean under high speed cruise it would barely move (idled perfectly). I knew I had put in jetting to lean it out to try to get better fuel mileage (failed) and wanted to put it back but was too lazy. Why after all this it was that lean at high speed cruise???? Put in the original 1403 jetting and much better but still has a slight surge. I richened the Duster up a bit and it was a different car. New richer rods on order for the Edelbrock for the Valiant now. Put about 10 miles on it and it is not ticking at all.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Probably a piece of trash in a lifter that worked it's way through. It happens.
Whether or not the cruise 'surge' is caused by the rods will depend on the engine load & rpm. It varies, but the engine cruising up to 50-60 mph may be on the T slot. The fix for that is to enlarge the IFR in 0.002" steps. Try the new rods first.
I am at a loss as to how it suddenly got so much worse after replacing the lifter (and removing the carb for that job). It was BAD, barely could keep it going 45 MPH up a slight grade. Before this I had put several thousands of miles on it with this carb tuning driving all over Arizona (1000' to 8000') and Southern California at sea level. Everything about this engine has been a mystery started literally between breakfast and dinner on the last day at Spring Fling in June.
Check carb base gasket for breakage/leak.
An easy non-invasive test for lean surge: engine idling, slowly close choke blade until engine note changes. Wire the choke blade in this position & test drive. If surge is improved/gone, carb is lean.
An easy non-invasive test for lean surge: engine idling, slowly close choke blade until engine note changes. Wire the choke blade in this position & test drive. If surge is improved/gone, carb is lean.
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