I have a problem with my Holley 600 (4160)

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cuda67

cuda67

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The problem is too much heat. It is boiling (perculating) the gas in the carb after I shut down. I am going to get a heat suppressing gasket but I have a clearance problem. My air cleaner is already pressing into the insulation as it is. If I raise the carb a half inch with the heat gasket I won't be able to close the hood. I have an Edelbrock Performer intake with the Holley 600. there is only a single paper gasket now. Any suggestions would help. I thought about changing the breather but to what? I have a 13 inch x 2 1/2 now. This problem makes the car a little hard to start when the engine is at normal operating temp.
 
So you have no problems with a cold start? Are you sure that its not an issue with the fuel lines getting heated by the headers/exhaust manifolds and the gas being delivered to the carb too hot to begin with?
 
Hmmmmm... I have a Performer intake, 67 barracuda, and 750 Holley WITH a 1" spacer and my hood closes fine. I had fuel percolating problems until I added the 1" spacer. With drop down air cleaner. I have the thinner motor mount insulators if that would make a difference.
 
mullinax95 said:
Hmmmmm... I have a Performer intake, 67 barracuda, and 750 Holley WITH a 1" spacer and my hood closes fine. I had fuel percolating problems until I added the 1" spacer. With drop down air cleaner. I have the thinner motor mount insulators if that would make a difference.
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340sFastback said:
These work amazingly well and they aren't that thick. Also you might consider pulling that intake and blocking those heat cross overs too.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL-9265&N=700+115&autoview=sku

or if you want a center divider type:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL-9266&N=700+115&autoview=sku
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do what these guys are saying, check your fuel line routing and insulate it, use a phenolic/plastic carb spacer or one of these rubber base plate gaskets and a drop down air cleaner. You shouldn't have to pull your intake. check your float level too, if its too high it, when it gets hot it will reach high enough to get to your idle circuit and flow down into your intake. (vapor lock)
 
Merry Christmas to all. Thanks for the information on a fix for this small problem. All of you are right:

1. No problem with a cold start.

2. I do not have a drop down air cleaner.

3. I have not checked my lines but I have had this same set up for over 15 years. That is the main reason for asking for help. What could possibly have brought this issue on?

What happens is that after I have driven the car for awhile and I shut it down, if I start it back up within a couple of minutes it starts right up. If it sits for any longer than that it will not start unless I hold the pedal to the floor, as if it had been flooded. I am going to do all the things suggested and I will get back to you guys.

Thanks
 
Had the same problem on my slant six car with a Ede 500. Put on a phenolic spacer with a drop down air-cleaner, problem solved. Vapor lock !
 
Johnny Dart said:
Had the same problem on my slant six car with a Ede 500. Put on a phenolic spacer with a drop down air-cleaner, problem solved. Vapor lock !
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Johnny nailed it right on the head! You may also need the black plastic spacer for the drop base aircleaner so it will clear the carb linkage.
 
360scamp said:
Johnny nailed it right on the head! You may also need the black plastic spacer for the drop base aircleaner so it will clear the carb linkage.
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Question, will the drop down allow the OEM transmission linkage to work? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of clearance with the Edel breather I have now.
 
That is maily what the black spacer is for. It goes between the carb and the drop base air cleaner. I got mine from the local parts store and it was made by Eddy.
 
Same problem...........

Solved with a 1/2" black phenolic spacer.....I already had a drop-down base.......With the half inch spacer, I didn't run into any problems with kick-down or throttle linkage.

Nice starts now when hot, and absolutely no boiling. I'll save the boilin' for my potato's. 8)
 
cuda67 said:
Question, will the drop down allow the OEM transmission linkage to work? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of clearance with the Edel breather I have now.
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Here is a pic of the air-cleaner I was refering to on my /6. It is a 14" drop down air-cleaner. You can see how it covers half the carb.

I would start with the Edelbrock heat gasket 340sFastback refered to.

Then go with a 14" drop down. It should clear your trans linkage. Kind of trial and air with this kind of stuff.

Take care

faucet pics 653.jpg
 
same on my 318, it is a vapor lock issue, of you had a elec. fuel pump it wouldnt be a problem, as of now i have the edelbrock adapter from a spreadbore manifold to a square bore card (able 3/4" made of alum)... but i still bad the problem with an equivalent phenololic spacer, its the heat soak on the carb and lines that vapor locks it, its right about 30-45 minutes where it sees most of its trouble restarting....
 
I think it's more of a tuning issue. If you have no issues with cold starting, especially having sat over night, then it's not "boiling out". If the fuel was boiling away when it's parked hot, how would the bowls get back filled with fuel for a cold start a day later? What are the timing specs?
 
Johnny Dart said:
Here is a pic of the air-cleaner I was refering to on my /6. It is a 14" drop down air-cleaner. You can see how it covers half the carb.

I would start with the Edelbrock heat gasket 340sFastback refered to.

Then go with a 14" drop down. It should clear your trans linkage. Kind of trial and air with this kind of stuff.

Take care
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Damn Jonny! Do you ever drive your cars or do you just keep them in the garage and dust them every 5 mins? LOL How do you keep them so clean!? Everytime I see a pic of your cars I just have to sit here and stare at it for a while.
 
Moper, you have a good point I think that besides the heat problem I MAY have other tuning issues. I am by no means a tech or a mechanic or by any description very knowledgeable.

The car is my girl I have had it since 1985. Everything good, bad or indifferent I did up to this point. I have a LA318 with closed chambered high compression heads, 280/380 cam, competition 3000 stall converter, 904 tranny with a B&M shift kit a 8 3/4 (489) with 3.23 gears that is about it. Now I started with the problem I told you guys about. I put a new power valve, 4.5 and jetted down from 69 to 65 jets because I thought it was a little rich and it was breaking up under full power with the 69. Well, now it is breaking up, missing, stumbling with the 65. I don't have a timimg light so I bought tape and it lasted long enough to let me check initial timing at 30-35 before the tape broke. I'll have to buy a light with advance, it will be cheaper than tape and less in pain in the a''. I don't know what is going on and I don't know anyone to come help. Hope you guys can help like before. Oh yeah, I have a Mopar electronic ignition with the stock red/orange module.
 
greendart72 said:
I had the exact same problem, the spacer the guys are talking about solved it.
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Just got off the phone with my son. He is a Ford man all the way. He kind of takes pity on me and my Mopar, just because everything is so expensive and sometimes difficult to find and hard to get. He has been trying to give me a hand and he wants me to do the suggestions you guys gave me and to put the 69's back in. He thinks it is breaking up worst now and that it might be too lean. Then he wants me to try her out. If it still detonates he wants me to retard the timing 5. I will be buying a new timing light with advance tomorrow. Do you guys have any other suggestions? I am open to any and all help. I would really like to be able to get on it without the detonation. By the way I ordered the gasket yesterday.

Thanks
 
360scamp said:
Damn Jonny! Do you ever drive your cars or do you just keep them in the garage and dust them every 5 mins? LOL How do you keep them so clean!? Everytime I see a pic of your cars I just have to sit here and stare at it for a while.
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LOL!

He's doing something that we all need to know... might be classified.
 
cuda67 said:
What could possibly have brought this issue on?
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The change might have been brough on by a change in the fuel locally.
An increase in the percentage of alcohol, especially in colder climates leads to a more volatile mixture that wants to boil easier. The fuel suppliers frequently change the mixtures summer versus winter, to my understanding.

I would consider intake manifold gaskets, if not already mentioned. See if you can find the set with the highest insulation properties. There is also 2 tricks for the underside of the intake....
One is to paint the underside of the intake with white paint, to reflect the heat from the oil splash,
Two is to build a "belly pan" for the intake manifold itself, to block the hot oil splash. It is usually a piece of sheet metal that is bent and contoured, to follow the under side of the intake, and he held in place with screws or rivets. It blocks the hot oil, from contacting the actual intake manifold, minimizing the heat transfer.
 
It sounds lean in the cruise definately... You can try looking at your exh headers/manifolds at night... Have your friend hold the brakes and rev it in gear until it starts to break up... You should see the exh headers turn bright red... Also, lean idle mixtures and retarded initial timing can cause hard re-starts like that. It's not the fuel boiling away. It's just not getting enough. I would say jet up to 70s, then add 5° initial timing, reset the idle speed, and reset the mixture. Balance the mixture screws so they are out the same amount and the engine idles smoothly. Then back them out another 1/2 turn. See if those basic changes help.
 
moper said:
It sounds lean in the cruise definately... You can try looking at your exh headers/manifolds at night... Have your friend hold the brakes and rev it in gear until it starts to break up... You should see the exh headers turn bright red... Also, lean idle mixtures and retarded initial timing can cause hard re-starts like that. It's not the fuel boiling away. It's just not getting enough. I would say jet up to 70s, then add 5° initial timing, reset the idle speed, and reset the mixture. Balance the mixture screws so they are out the same amount and the engine idles smoothly. Then back them out another 1/2 turn. See if those basic changes help.
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Moper, thanks for your suggestions. I re-jetted to the 69's today and got rid of most of the detonation. It was too lean. I set initial timing at 35 while at 2500 rpm. Those two things seemed to help, we are on the right track, I think. I spoke with my son this afternoon and he wants me to set intial timing while at 3000 rpm and if it stops the detonation he thinks my distributor is putting to much total timing in and that my distributor is not right. I am just taking advice and doing whatever is suggested. I ordered the heat blocking gasket from Summit and I will try that next. I am getting into areas I know nothing about. I bought a advance timing light today and I have to learn to use it right. What is total timing? How do you know if your vacuum advance is working? Do I have my distributor vacuum line hooked to the correct port? It is hooked to the port coming from the metering block. Is that right or should it be connected to the port which I have blocked off in the front of the carb at the base? So many questions, so much to learn.

Thanks to all of you who are trying to help. This is an awesome site.
 
when you were in the carb, did you raise your float level? you asked what may have brought this on, I believe this is what happened. If the float level is too high it allows the hot fuel to rise up to the idle circuit and run down into your intake.

If its vapor lock, you should be able to take the air cleaner off after a long drive and after a few minutes or so, you'll here the fuel hitting the hot intake and "sizzle" The spacer will probably still fix it. Just a guess as to why this just started.
Dietz
 
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