Engine Cutting Out! What to check?
- Thread starter clinteg
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Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Watched the Video. Pretty cool drop in unit. What exact Part# did you get?
Yes I would agree with that 100%.
I got part # D7141800 http://pertronix.shptron.com/produc...7141800/591.0.1.1.26490.48799.26589.0.0?pp=8& which does not have the vacuum advance. The one with vacuum advance is D7141700 http://pertronix.shptron.com/produc...7141700/591.0.1.1.26490.48799.26589.0.0?pp=8&. They have other ones with different color and style caps. Got mine off Ebay. Seemed to be one of the better places on price.
I finally chaned out the voltage regulator and that didn't seem to make a difference. Bad ground I guess? The other thing I am concerned about is that I am seeing a constant stream of white smoke coming from the valve cover breathers. Also when I revved up the motor, I looked out of the garage and noticed a cloud of white smoke billowing out. I am concerned I have a blow head gasket or something.
If it's been sitting it could just be moisture collecting from cooling at night. If it runs and warms up do you still see the white smoke.
I've first noticed it after the first hard run I took on it. After it was stopped smoke just kinda rolled out steadily. I was told it was just smoke in the crankcase and nothing to worry about. But it was coming out pretty good this evening. It has been cooler and I did not get the engine water temp up very high. Ran maybe 5 minutes. I just don't get the cloud of smoke it blew out. I did a compression test and all cylinders were right at 224/225 psi with one being 222 psi. Very consistent across the board. So I don't know what to make of the smoke right now. I do know that I haven't fixed the voltage issue yet. I don't even know where to start now that the voltage regulator is replaced.
It's fairly new as far as miles go. I was told the motor MAYBE had 200 miles on it when I got it and and haven't driven it but 50 miles if even that. The motor has been running for a few years I believe.
Also the distributor has a magnetic pickup type system, not points as I ammumed it was.
Performed a sudo cylinder leak test. Set my air tank regulator to about 10 psi and I think every bit of air went into the crankcase. I covered one valve cover hole and placed a small plastic bag over the other hole and then filled a cylinder with air. The plastic ballooned fairly quickly. Then I checked the oil and it looks like metallic paint! Something has gone terribly wrong I think so looks like I may be pulling the motor for a complete tear down.
EDIT:
Scratch that. I'm getting different answers from different people. PO says he thinks there's a hole in one or some of the pistons allowing the blow by into the crankcase. He's positive since I was running the Sunoco 112 that it's causing that problem from detonation (which it WAS doing I believe). But the air I was putting into the cylinder wasn't going in very fast so it's probably a given that some or all of that air would blow past the rings right? One other guy thinks I may have blown a head gasket from the smoke story, but another couple guys say it probably isn't that because you can definitely smell the antifreeze out of the exhaust. I didn't notice any odd smell from the exhaust and the PO is 99% sure that the head gasket will not blow on this motor. He had the cylinders O ringed (not sure if that's the right term) with a copper wire that sits at the top of the cylinder inside the head gasket so that there is actually 4 wires in between each cylinder to blow through. So the cylinder pressures are down 10% from when it was new, 250 to 224 plus or minus 1 psi. I thought that was pretty good but PO thought that was bad and other guys think there is nothing wrong with that and was surprised it had that much cylinder pressure. On the subject of seeing the metallic in the oil in the oil filter, these other guys seem to think that because the motor does not have enough miles on it to be fully broke in, I am possibly seeing residual break in material off the bearings. According to them, the smoke could be from oil getting past the valve seals and the problem could lie within the head (just the smoke issue, not the cutting out). I know it's hard to make a determination without hearing and seeing the problem, but I welcome any more ideas here.
EDIT:
Scratch that. I'm getting different answers from different people. PO says he thinks there's a hole in one or some of the pistons allowing the blow by into the crankcase. He's positive since I was running the Sunoco 112 that it's causing that problem from detonation (which it WAS doing I believe). But the air I was putting into the cylinder wasn't going in very fast so it's probably a given that some or all of that air would blow past the rings right? One other guy thinks I may have blown a head gasket from the smoke story, but another couple guys say it probably isn't that because you can definitely smell the antifreeze out of the exhaust. I didn't notice any odd smell from the exhaust and the PO is 99% sure that the head gasket will not blow on this motor. He had the cylinders O ringed (not sure if that's the right term) with a copper wire that sits at the top of the cylinder inside the head gasket so that there is actually 4 wires in between each cylinder to blow through. So the cylinder pressures are down 10% from when it was new, 250 to 224 plus or minus 1 psi. I thought that was pretty good but PO thought that was bad and other guys think there is nothing wrong with that and was surprised it had that much cylinder pressure. On the subject of seeing the metallic in the oil in the oil filter, these other guys seem to think that because the motor does not have enough miles on it to be fully broke in, I am possibly seeing residual break in material off the bearings. According to them, the smoke could be from oil getting past the valve seals and the problem could lie within the head (just the smoke issue, not the cutting out). I know it's hard to make a determination without hearing and seeing the problem, but I welcome any more ideas here.
If there was a hole in pistons, your compression would be a lot lower than it is. I agree that you're seeing some break in material and smoke coming out.
If you have access to a bore scope/camera, you could take a peek inside the cylinders and see for yourself what it looks like.
My best guess is that the rings are not seated yet, and you're getting a loss of compression there.
Start by changing the oil and running some standard oil in it. Not synthetic. That will cause the rings to not seat properly because it's too slick, and they won't bite on the cylinder walls to seal.
The next thing I would do would be to back the timing down and add some octane to the fuel. You need to stop the detonation before it DOES damage things internally.
How do your plugs look? Can you take a good clear close up pic of a couple of them for us to take a look at?
If you have access to a bore scope/camera, you could take a peek inside the cylinders and see for yourself what it looks like.
My best guess is that the rings are not seated yet, and you're getting a loss of compression there.
Start by changing the oil and running some standard oil in it. Not synthetic. That will cause the rings to not seat properly because it's too slick, and they won't bite on the cylinder walls to seal.
The next thing I would do would be to back the timing down and add some octane to the fuel. You need to stop the detonation before it DOES damage things internally.
How do your plugs look? Can you take a good clear close up pic of a couple of them for us to take a look at?
TomMoparMan
Well-Known Member
I had a miss in my motor and it turned out to be low battery voltage. I read you are running 8psi of fuel pressure. Try turning it down to 6psi this will cause less fuel aeration. A friend of mine try this and picked up more than a tenth in the 1/4. Hope this helps you with your problem. Good luck Tom
I'll check the battery again, but I'm pretty sure it's good. From what I'm finding, I am getting more voltage through the system than there should be. The voltage spikes to 40 volts at times at the coil and at the ballast resistor. I changed the voltage regulator and that didn't do anything. So the problem lies elsewhere.
I would highly doubt aeration would be the issue. I'm running a bypass system which "should" virtually will eliminate that problem. The pressure doesn't fluctuate or anything at all.
Here's some pictures of the plugs. They looked really dark when I took inside pictures so I took some outdoor pictures as well. My camera actually picked up a lot of stuff on the plugs that I couldn't see very well with the naked eye. The pictures won't be big enough on here to see what I can see when they are full size, but here ya go.
I can see a couple of things with the plugs that may be an issue. Based on the coloration of the threads, it looks like they're a bit hot for that setup.
The timing marks look pretty good, but you could probably pull a couple of degrees out of it to get the timing signature to the middle of the ground strap. The goal is to have that discoloration about mid way through the ground strap with no detonation. Going to a cooler plug should cure any detonation you have.
Hope that helps some.
The timing marks look pretty good, but you could probably pull a couple of degrees out of it to get the timing signature to the middle of the ground strap. The goal is to have that discoloration about mid way through the ground strap with no detonation. Going to a cooler plug should cure any detonation you have.
Hope that helps some.
gtmopar
Phuckin A!
Ok that unit does provide multiple spark discharge but nowhere near what an MSD ignition box puts out. If I may ask, what is your reason for using the pertronix brand? I put a pertronix conversion in my dads boat, and although it is much better than points it's nowhere near what you need for your application. If it were me I would go with a MSD pro billet distributor and an MSD 6AL box. It's what I'm using in my D1 pro charged Dart and it works sweet and its reliable. Especially with you running 15 to 1 compression you can't afford to have any detonation issues. You will scatter that motor extremely fast. You can also open up the plug gap with the box which will allow a better hotter spark. Also to be on the safe side check to make sure there is no debris in the supply line screen ( if there is one ) because that hot fuel is rough on rubber fuel hose especially if its old line. Good luck man. Like to hear what that 15-1 motor sounds like. Bet it's nasty. Post a video.
I talked to an engine builder today and he was saying that the pertronix ignitions like the one I bought are "badass" in his words. He said he uses msd units in his cars but he beats them up a lot and the pertronix would work good for my motor. He highly recommended them. The lines should not be corroded at all. They are only a couple months old. The entire fuel system is. These plugs are NGK5 and I agree they are too hot of a plug that's all I could get a hold of at the time. One shop said I could run champion GR9's or something like that around town. At the track will probably run NGK8's. For a video, go to my build page in my sig on the last page.
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
Wow, man i don't know how i missed that thread. I had now idea what you went thru and what you've done. Hope you get it all squared away soon. Absolutely awesome car and fab work.........
rayer:.
swinger340
Well-Known Member
I would agree with the Champion GR9s. Buddy runs them in his 14:1 340 with no issues. Not sure about a 15:1 motor, but I have the pertronix in my 11:1 340 and love it. The rev limiter is a little diff to get used to. It dont break down @ all it just stops revving. Mine is set for 7200 RPM. It will hit 7200 and just hold there, no breaking down like the MSD in my duster.
I've found that with my 11:1 motor, I had to experiment some with plugs before I settled on Autolite AR3911 (I think, can't remember right now ) for street use. I will go to something different at the track when I start racing again.
Ok so here's a different problem I have. The car won't even start at all. I pulled the distributor to make sure the pertronix unit will fit, put the original back in, changed the jets back down, and now it doesn't even try to kick on. Just cranks and cranks. I only pumped it like I normally do to get fuel to it but didn't since the first cranking. Checked the distributor and it appears to be in the correct position. I've turned it every which way and it won't kick on at all. I smell fuel but it's not even trying to start. What else to check now?
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Did you bang the points on the old distributor? Is all the wiring hooked back up? Gotta be something simple. Take a deep breath and re look everything over. You will find the problem.
Geez I dunno. I rechecked that I wasn't 180 degrees out, rotated the distributor back and forth as my wife cranked it, made sure I had spark, looked to make sure it wasn't flooding while the pump was on, took the throttle and opened it up a couple times, tried once more and BOOM, started right up. Unbelievable. I guess I didn't give it enough gas or something the first time around, although it smelled like fuel like crazy. Ok I'm going to go crawl back in my hole and keep being an idiot now!
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