How to roll a fender lip?

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But still before anything is done the car needs to be lowered.

Okey-doke, I will set it on its hind legs and get some photos. I did get the rims from Summit, but they were VERY clear on the instructions, if you mount a tire to them they are non-returnable. That's why I mocked them up with rims only and had what I thought was a perfect fit. If only I'd have remembered that wider BBP business. :(
 
Okey-doke, I will set it on its hind legs and get some photos. I did get the rims from Summit, but they were VERY clear on the instructions, if you mount a tire to them they are non-returnable. That's why I mocked them up with rims only and had what I thought was a perfect fit. If only I'd have remembered that wider BBP business. :(
It can be deceptive...
 
You describe your 15x7s as having 4 1/4 offset. I assume you mean backspace.

Correct, I used the wrong term. I meant backspace.

If you change to a 15x8 with 4 1/2 backspace, then 3/4 of that extra inch is towards the fender, making your problem worse.

Help me understand why, because as I understand it, if the backspace increases 1/4", that puts everything closer to the springs which is what I need. The problem isn't the location or width of the wheel, it's the sidewall of the tire. The cross section on these tires is 10" which I measured and is correct. Does that cross section measurement change given a wider or skinnnier wheel?
 
Correct, I used the wrong term. I meant backspace.



Help me understand why, because as I understand it, if the backspace increases 1/4", that puts everything closer to the springs which is what I need. The problem isn't the location or width of the wheel, it's the sidewall of the tire. The cross section on these tires is 10" which I measured and is correct. Does that cross section measurement change given a wider or skinnnier wheel?
The bulge of the tire will and a lot of times that's what hits the edge..
what exactly is keeping you from taking the 5 minutes to lower this thing down?...
 
Nuttin, cept polishing off the last of the breakfast tacos and refilling my coffee.
It will be nice to see exactly what we're working with as far as room or no room to much room or buy vesely far not enough..
 
Correct, I used the wrong term. I meant backspace.



Help me understand why, because as I understand it, if the backspace increases 1/4", that puts everything closer to the springs which is what I need. The problem isn't the location or width of the wheel, it's the sidewall of the tire. The cross section on these tires is 10" which I measured and is correct. Does that cross section measurement change given a wider or skinnnier wheel?
If you have 15x7 with 4 1/4 bs, and change to a 15x8 with 4 1/2 backspace, you have added an inch of width, 1/4 of which is added to the bs, (4.25 to 4.5) .Therefore, the rest of that added inch of width goes to the outside end of the wheel, moving the whole tire 3/4" CLOSER to the fender.
With your almost one inch room from your tire to the spring, what you need is a 4 7/8 bs wheel (very common bs for a centerline autodrag) or even a 5"
From your description, I would get a 15x8, or 15x8 1/2 with 4 3/4 or 4 7/8. I might even get a 15x8 5"bs made, and use a billet spacer to get it EXACTLY where you want it.
Maybe think of it this way... you have a 15x8 wheel with 4 inch backspace, and you change to a 15x15 wheel with 5 inch backspace. Did the tire get closer to the spring? Yep. But the .majority of the extra width is away from the spring. One inch of that 7 inch width change went to the inside, six inches more sticking out of the fender.
 
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And for your last question, yes, a given tire will have a wider section width, mounted on a wider wheel. That's why when you look up tire sizes, they usually specify what width the rims were when the tires were measured.
 
I got the car off the jacks and on its feet. When I lowered the first side I was pretty excited as I was showing a fat 1/4" clearance to the fender lip. However, when I set the other side down I have virtually NO clearance to the fender lip. I can slide a couple of pieces of paper in there, but that's it.

And now I recall how I got in this spot. When I mocked up the axle, brakes, and wheels I used my old SBP axles that were re-drilled for BBP. Then when Dr. Diff's axles show up my clearance is gone. Boohoo.

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Roll it. Even if the tool doesnt follow the curve, it will find its interference point and work that part. My 65 had its lip bent in, couldnt tell from the outside. Just take little bites and go slow. 2nd guy lowers his tire onto a telephone book as a wedge and uses a heat gun to save the paint, this looks like a better idea, more control.

 
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I got the car off the jacks and on its feet. When I lowered the first side I was pretty excited as I was showing a fat 1/4" clearance to the fender lip. However, when I set the other side down I have virtually NO clearance to the fender lip. I can slide a couple of pieces of paper in there, but that's it.

And now I recall how I got in this spot. When I mocked up the axle, brakes, and wheels I used my old SBP axles that were re-drilled for BBP. Then when Dr. Diff's axles show up my clearance is gone. Boohoo.

View attachment 1715579223

Yup, if you measured with SBP axles that were re-drilled you lost over a 1/4” going to the real BBP axles.

The lip in that picture already appears to have been trimmed back too, btw. Which means you can’t trim much if anything without getting into the spot welds. It also means even if you rolled it flat your clearance to the quarter would be marginal. Which means new rims would be the better solution.

As for the rims, if you have a 15x7” with 4.25” backspace now, going to a 15x8 with 4.5” would be worse. That’s one reason it’s good to look at offset too. A 15x7” with 4.25” of backspace is a +6 offset. A 15x8 with 4.5” of backspace is a 0 offset. Which means the centerline of the rim moved out toward the quarter by a 1/4”. The offset gives the centerline of the wheel, so, when you change rim widths and you want the centerline to stay the same you can look at the offset number.

In your case, if you’ve got an 1” or better to the springs and nothing to the quarter, you need another 1/2” of backspace or an additional +12 of offset for a total of +18. That means your 7” rim should have a 4.75” backspace, and your 8” should have 5.25”.

The rims I’m gonna buy for my ‘71 dart are 17x8 with a 5.25” backspace. It has an A-body rear with BBP axles too. On my car by my math that will put them pretty close to the springs. But if they’re too close a spacer solves the problem. If you go too little offset you get to work on the quarters, or buy new rims.
 
Plus, as many times as I've preached it, the Percy's tire and wheel measuring tool will tell you exactly how big a tire and wheel, what offset, backspace, width in all diameters will fit under your car. I just cannot understand why people continuously want to cheap the **** out and try to do things without proper tools. 75 bucks for the Percy's tool and you wouldn't have to be doing this all over. Dammit all. lol
Or; buy it for $75, and then sell it for $45 in this forum after you are done. About four years ago, I ripped all the carpet out of my house and installed 3/4 inch hardwood floors. I saved almost $5,000 doing it myself. Anyway, I bought a Kobalt (Lowes) hardwood floor pneumatic floor nailing gun for $200. It worked great. It probably took me a month to do the job. When I was done, I listed it on Craig's list for $100. It sold in one day and the guy didn't even try to dicker.
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Or; buy it for $75, and then sell it for $45 in this forum after you are done. About four years ago, I ripped all the carpet out of my house and installed 3/4 inch hardwood floors. I saved almost $5,000 doing it myself. Anyway, I bought a Kobalt (Lowes) hardwood floor pneumatic floor nailing gun for $200. It worked great. It probably took me a month to do the job. When I was done, I listed it on Craig's list for $100. It sold in one day and the guy didn't even try to dicker.

You sure could. I am funny about tools. Once I buy them, they don't get away.
 
I do keep 99.9% of my tools. I would keep the Percy's tool. It was just a thought for someone who hates to spend $75 on a one time use tool. However, on a tool I will NEVER use again (installing hardwood floors is a *****, so I'll never do it again) I can let it go.
 
I do keep 99.9% of my tools. I would keep the Percy's tool. It was just a thought for someone who hates to spend $75 on a one time use tool. However, on a tool I will NEVER use again (installing hardwood floors is a *****, so I'll never do it again) I can let it go.

My thinkin is.....if somebody whose in this hobby "hates" to spend 75 bucks on a tool.......they're in the wrong hobby.
 
My thinkin is.....if somebody whose in this hobby "hates" to spend 75 bucks on a tool.......they're in the wrong hobby.
I bought tools to make it easier next time. Also in hope i never need it. One is the ford spark plug extractor kit. The other is a set of left hand drill bits. Sadly i had to extract 7 spark plugs on one truck.
 
I know my boo-boo is going to cost me a workable amount of cash. I'm researching different 15x7 wheels with 4.50-4.75" of backspacing. Another option is to get some smaller tires. I have 255/60-15's now. They are 10" wide and I like the look. Going down to a 245 gets me down to 9.6" wide which would work if I roll the fender lips. A 235 would easily solve all my problems with no modifications as they are 9.3" wide.

Many thanks to all who weighed in on this topic to help out.
 
Halfafish, do you like sports? My 65 Bcuda has some damage to the right rear quarter and the lip was uncomfortably close to my tire. I bought a basketball and a football and jacked the car up. Deflated both balls and worked them in between the tire and lip. I let the car down a bit and inflated both balls. Lowering the jack and bouncing the rear oof the car gently folded the lip to gave me just enough room.
 
That roller DOES NOT WORK on A-bodies. They only work on cheap Japanese metal cars. Our car metal is too thick and double thickness where it rubs. Don't waste your time or money on this item!
 
That roller DOES NOT WORK on A-bodies. They only work on cheap Japanese metal cars. Our car metal is too thick and double thickness where it rubs. Don't waste your time or money on this item!

The Eastwood roller? It works fine on A-bodies. I used it on the front fenders of my Duster as I said earlier. Not only was I able to roll the lip but it was plenty strong enough to push my fenders a bit further out as well for more clearance. The rear quarters take some more prep work for sure, but it’s not a waste of time or money if you know how to use the tool.
 
I'm currently sorting through my options to solve the problem. For those who have used a roller to shape the fender lip, how much clearance were you able to gain? My lips are about 7/8" wide measured on the outside. And how much clearance is recommended to avoid tire/fender contact when driving in the real world?
 
Yeah, not a fan of rolling the edge kind of butches the car.

Fitting rear wider wheel and tires to these mopars is a true art form. Where all precautions taken with measurements made, the proof is in the pudding on the final mounting of the wheels to the car to see if they fit.

Have you considered going back to your original 4" bolt pattern axles and have the next set of wheels made to fit those with a 4.5" back spacing ??
 
I got the car off the jacks and on its feet. When I lowered the first side I was pretty excited as I was showing a fat 1/4" clearance to the fender lip. However, when I set the other side down I have virtually NO clearance to the fender lip. I can slide a couple of pieces of paper in there, but that's it.

And now I recall how I got in this spot. When I mocked up the axle, brakes, and wheels I used my old SBP axles that were re-drilled for BBP. Then when Dr. Diff's axles show up my clearance is gone. Boohoo.

View attachment 1715579223

OK, then put your original redrilled axles back in and things should fit. Grease the bearings, and you are good to go.

Like the stock bearings better that the new green bearings anyhow, better side sway control.
 
Yeah, not a fan of rolling the edge kind of butches the car.

Fitting rear wider wheel and tires to these mopars is a true art form. Where all precautions taken with measurements made, the proof is in the pudding on the final mounting of the wheels to the car to see if they fit.

Have you considered going back to your original 4" bolt pattern axles and have the next set of wheels made to fit those with a 4.5" back spacing ??


I agree, I'd prefer not to roll the fender lips.

And I did do a complete mock-up and measure, but I didn't know the new Dr. Diff axles were wider than the stock ones. That difference is all I need to make this work but it's too late now.

I am talking to Wheel Vintiques, they have the ability to do custom backspacing which is my first choice for fixing this mess.

OK, then put your original redrilled axles back in and things should fit. Grease the bearings, and you are good to go.

Agreed, but that means I'd have to add the spacer button back into the pumpkin, and it cost me $75 to get removed so I guess it would be at least another $75 to get replaced. I can't do it myself, it's a solid button that requires disassembling the carrier.

Let's hope Wheel Vintiques comes through. If not I will look at smaller tires as the next option.
 
I'm currently sorting through my options to solve the problem. For those who have used a roller to shape the fender lip, how much clearance were you able to gain? My lips are about 7/8" wide measured on the outside. And how much clearance is recommended to avoid tire/fender contact when driving in the real world?

At the rear quarter you need at least a 1/2" of clearance between the tire and hard parts to keep the tires from rubbing under most "real world" conditions. But even that depends on your suspension, how tall/soft the sidewall of the tire is, the ride height, etc. On my Duster my 295/35/18's would rub going through drainages/parking lot transitions or over speed bumps until I installed the rear sway bar. That was enough to control that little bit of extra body roll to keep things from rubbing.

As far the the quarter lips, you can fold them flat with enough patience if you wanted to. But the rear quarter lips are double layered and have spot welds, so, to fold them flat you'd need to do some extra work. You'll need to start the fold with a dolly and hammer, I have a dolly with a tapered edge that works well to place against the lip where you want to start the fold, it sets the edge and keeps any damage from being done to the quarter. Then once you have a little angle on the lip and a fold started on the edge you can work the lip flat with the roller. You'll need to make multiple passes, moving the metal a little more with each pass. The front fender lips are much easier, they can be rolled without any hammer and dolly work in just a couple passes.

And if you're going to move a lot of metal, like to roll the lips flat, a heat gun on the paint will help keep the paint from cracking. Get the paint nice and warm and it will be a lot more flexible, especially if it's relatively new. That's also the reason for not using the hammer and dolly the whole time and skipping the roller. I only use a hammer and dolly on the rear if I have to, it's a lot easier to crack or pop the paint. With the double spot welded layer though it really helps the roller to set the edge of the fold with the hammer and dolly, then use the roller to move the rest of the metal slowly and consistently.

This is like the dolly you'd want, there are different versions but even this "general purpose" one works well. You can set the tapered edge (bottom left) on the lip while you hold onto the rounded part, and strike the inside edge of the lip at an angle with your body hammer. That sets the edge of the fold without damaging the quarter.
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