70 Dart with Subframe connectors
Poll: need for torque boxes, considering amount of horsepower
- Thread starter Brooks James
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I expect the results to be all over the place
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Net or gross H.P.? 
Since the factory decided they were necessary on stock 340s and 383s, and all convertibles; I'm in at 350. They reinforce different areas/perform different tasks than subframe connectors, so that point is moot. Heck, even the factory Hemi Darts & Barracudas had torque boxes and no subframe connectors- not to say they're not necessary, because they are. Just something to consider.
Since the factory decided they were necessary on stock 340s and 383s, and all convertibles; I'm in at 350. They reinforce different areas/perform different tasks than subframe connectors, so that point is moot. Heck, even the factory Hemi Darts & Barracudas had torque boxes and no subframe connectors- not to say they're not necessary, because they are. Just something to consider.
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mopowers
Well-Known Member
What's the intended use of the car?
replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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Theres really no reason NOT to use them, regardless of hp
Net or gross H.P.?
Since the factory decided they were necessary on stock 340s and 383s, and all convertibles; I'm in at 350. They reinforce different areas/perform different tasks than subframe connectors, so that point is moot. Heck, even the factory Hemi Darts & Barracudas had torque boxes and no subframe connectors- not to say they're not necessary, because they are. Just something to consider.
What he said. The factory used them on cars that made less than 300 hp.
They box the corners between the rockers, frame rails, floor and rear suspension mounts. I know XV downplayed their importance some compared to other things, but they certainly don’t hurt anything, and I think they go right along with adding subframe connectors and front shock tower/frame rail stiffening.
Hot street, road course
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
If you're running a road course or slaloms, put 'em in even if you've got a 5 hp Briggs under the hood.
Didn't a company in Canada actually plate test the A-body (or E-body) chassis and found there was no benefit?
I swear I read that somewhere
I swear I read that somewhere
Yup, add them.
And subframe connectors, and some kind of shock tower/firewall stiffener (inner fender braces, j-bars etc) and some kind of lower radiator support, and seam weld and reinforce your K frame, and depending on the road course and the type of driving possibly some level of roll bar/cage.
XV did some basic testing based on hanging weights on the car and testing deflection. I'd have to go back and see exactly what they did regarding the torque boxes, but yes, XV basically said the torque boxes didn't do much. The context was more that the front of the chassis, from the firewall forward, was actually a much bigger problem. Hence the need for some kind of inner fender brace/J-bar, lower radiator support, etc. And their testing showed that adding inner fender braces and forward chassis stiffening made a significant difference.
But, while they did actually do testing, that testing is pretty rudimentary. It definitely has value, but I wouldn't consider it to be the "end all be all" with regard to what works and what doesn't. It's absolutely part of the picture, but it's not the whole thing.
I'll see if I can find the video of the testing they did.
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33IMP
Well-Known Member
Full-on drag car might not need em, or want the added weight.
For a hot STREET car/corner carver, there's no good reason NOT to use em.
As for hp level, I'd say a 400hp small block, plus nitrous, should have them.
For a hot STREET car/corner carver, there's no good reason NOT to use em.
As for hp level, I'd say a 400hp small block, plus nitrous, should have them.
Here's an article on the testing that XV did.
Take The XV Challenge
I think I sold their testing a little bit short, it was definitely better than "rudimentary". But they also never said that the torque boxes were useless, the comment made was that the rear of the B/E body chassis they tested didn't need much improvement. And they still called for adding the torque boxes, at least in the article.
There used to be a video, but I can't seem to find it. I think Peter Bergman was involved in some of that testing? Maybe @BergmanAutoCraft will chime in.
Take The XV Challenge
I think I sold their testing a little bit short, it was definitely better than "rudimentary". But they also never said that the torque boxes were useless, the comment made was that the rear of the B/E body chassis they tested didn't need much improvement. And they still called for adding the torque boxes, at least in the article.
There used to be a video, but I can't seem to find it. I think Peter Bergman was involved in some of that testing? Maybe @BergmanAutoCraft will chime in.
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Been thinking about this a while?
Subframe connectors/torque boxes question
In this thread you should never leave the driveway without all of it!
Subframe connectors for a driver/cruiser, necessary to weld to floor?
Subframe connectors/torque boxes question
In this thread you should never leave the driveway without all of it!
Subframe connectors for a driver/cruiser, necessary to weld to floor?
mopowers
Well-Known Member
It's a no brainer. Weld 'em in, regardless of horsepower.
Weren't torque boxes used to tie the rockers to the front and rear frame rails to help stiffen the unibody.
If subframe connectors are inplace wouldn't that do about the same thing?
Might still gain some rotational resistance by trying to twist the windshield and quarter pillers.
If subframe connectors are inplace wouldn't that do about the same thing?
Might still gain some rotational resistance by trying to twist the windshield and quarter pillers.
The subframe connectors literally tie the subframes together, which does improve torsional rigidity. The torque boxes tie the rockers, floors, frame rails together at the corners, essentially boxing or gusseting the connection of all those things. Which also should increase torsional rigidity, but not in the same place or in the same way.
Sure, both improve chassis stiffness, but they do it in different places and in different ways. One does not take the place of the other.
Furious65
C-body Guy
I think any car can benefit from more chassis stiffening unless you drive a big luxury car and want it to ride and handle like one.
I agree with post#7 and will add.......
I think the boxes are nice to have on manual transmission cars as well. If the clutch hits hard at the strip, for example, you want a lot of reinforcement at the leaf spring attachment points.
I think the boxes are nice to have on manual transmission cars as well. If the clutch hits hard at the strip, for example, you want a lot of reinforcement at the leaf spring attachment points.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
even slant 6 cars in SA and Austrlia got them....
more to do with the use of the car than power or torque .
if you drive like the dukes of hazzard or chase mustangs round San Fancisco
anywhere where there are corners and uneven surfaces
if you park in an uneven field at the county fair.... and suddenly can't open your door..... or you can, but it just bounces off the striker when you try to shut it....
torque boxes and chassis connectors....
if you have both....innaproriate jacking of the car practially lifts 3 wheels not 1
an improvment you can feel from the day its done
Dave
more to do with the use of the car than power or torque .
if you drive like the dukes of hazzard or chase mustangs round San Fancisco
anywhere where there are corners and uneven surfaces
if you park in an uneven field at the county fair.... and suddenly can't open your door..... or you can, but it just bounces off the striker when you try to shut it....
torque boxes and chassis connectors....
if you have both....innaproriate jacking of the car practially lifts 3 wheels not 1
an improvment you can feel from the day its done
Dave
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all i can say is this is what 520hp 560 tq did to my car it has been rebuilt stronger the rust is from driving to the shop in the rain and it sitting for 2 weeks before being repaired it is not a rustbucket
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