1.14" Sway Away Torsion Bars

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1975abody

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Just installed a set of Sway Away 1.14" torsion bars. I am assuming that the wheel rate is about 320 lbs/in, but jouncing on the fender it seems like they are no firmer than the stock 318 bars. I do have blown out shocks on the front, but with that high of a wheel rate I would think it would be much stiffer.

I have PST 1.03" torsion bars and Bilsteins on the Scamp, and I can stand on the bumper and bounce it, and it will only move about an inch.

Sway Away does not call out a wheel rate but Firm Feel lists their 1.12" torsion bars as 300lbs/in.

Is it possible that torsion bars of this diameter could be softer than the 1.03" on the Scamp.

I would think that wheel rate would be determined mostly by the diameter, with the metallurgy and heat treatment mostly affecting longevity.

Anyone have any opinion, or expertise?
MOPAR "A" Body Torsion Bar Set, 1961-1976 - Sway-A-Way | Racing Technology
 
It depends on what material the torsion bars are made of... Some metals are stiffer than others....

If they are both made of the same material, then the larger one will be stiffer...
 
I guess my question really is: How stiff should 1.14" t-bars be when I bounce the fender?

To answer this first- bouncing on the fender is a ridiculous and nearly meaningless way to test torsion bar stiffness.

The blown out shocks absolutely effect this, because the damping rate of the shock also determines how far the suspension will travel when you "bounce" it. Ride height will have an even bigger effect. If the car is lowered, and you're still using stock height bump stops, you're probably bottoming the suspension out on the bump stops. Especially with 318 torsion bars. Which pretty much ruins your "test". The 318 bars will seem really stiff if you bottom out the suspension on the bump stops mid-travel.

Sway Away has a torsion bar rate calculator right on their website, you just have to know how to use it. Torsion Bar Wheel Rate Calculator - Sway-A-Way | Racing Technology

The outer diameter is 1.14" in your case. The A-body bars are solid, so, the inside diameter is 0. The effective length of the bar is ~33.8". As described that's the length of the bar 1/2 to 2/3 up the radius to the hex end, where the bar necks down. The overall length is 35.8, measuring radius to radius knocks about 1" off each end, so, ~33.8". Last is the length of the lower control arm, that's middle of ball joint to the middle of the pivot pin. On an A-body that's 12.875".

So, plug all that in and you get 332 lbs/in. If you get the same result from those bars as you do your 318 bars, you did something wrong (like, it's sitting on the bumpstops).

You can also email Sway-Away, they were very helpful when I contacted them about some B-body bars I bought second hand. If you sent them the LCA length, they'll calculate the wheel rate for you because they have the rest of the dimensions. I'm pretty sure they'll tell you the 1.14" A-body bars are pretty close to 332 lbs/in, but you don't have to believe me if you don't want to.
 
It depends on what material the torsion bars are made of... Some metals are stiffer than others....

If they are both made of the same material, then the larger one will be stiffer...

uhhhh huh huh huh uhhhh heh heh heh you said stiff.
 
bouncing on the fender is a ridiculous and nearly meaningless way to test torsion bar stiffness.

I was not attempting to test torsion bar stiffness, I was just did the "fender bounce" out of curiosity after I installed the bars, and was using the same fender bounce on my Scamp as a reference, so I am not sure that I agree with your statement that it was meaningless. I performed an impromptu "experiment" on 2 similar vehicles, and observed 2 different reactions to the same input. I also took into account the blown out shocks as a factor in the differing results.

Especially with 318 torsion bars. Which pretty much ruins your "test". The 318 bars will seem really stiff if you bottom out the suspension on the bump stops mid-travel.



Car was at stock ride height with the stock torsion bars and regardless I did not perform the bounce test on the car with the the 318 bars, I used my Scamp with 1.03" bars as the reference, and it has trimmed bump stops with plenty of wheel travel, because I might not be the sharpest tack, but I am sharp enough to trim bump stops, and not drive around with the suspension sitting on the bump stops.


but you don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

Why would I not believe you?
 
I was not attempting to test torsion bar stiffness, I was just did the "fender bounce" out of curiosity after I installed the bars, and was using the same fender bounce on my Scamp as a reference, so I am not sure that I agree with your statement that it was meaningless. I performed an impromptu "experiment" on 2 similar vehicles, and observed 2 different reactions to the same input. I also took into account the blown out shocks as a factor in the differing results.

Maybe "meaningless" is a little harsh, but the bottom line is that you're conducting an "experiment" while you have a bunch of uncontrolled variables (shocks, ride height, bump stops, alignment, different car, wheel base?, etc). That's a great way to get a "result" that isn't accurate or the one you expected. The shocks will make a much bigger difference than you might think. You're comparing a great set of shocks that are pretty firm (bilsteins) to ones you know are blown.

Car was at stock ride height with the stock torsion bars and regardless I did not perform the bounce test on the car with the the 318 bars, I used my Scamp with 1.03" bars as the reference, and it has trimmed bump stops with plenty of wheel travel, because I might not be the sharpest tack, but I am sharp enough to trim bump stops, and not drive around with the suspension sitting on the bump stops.

By stock ride height I mean you actually set the ride height to factory specs, measured the whole A-B thing on the LCA's and set it according to the FSM. Not just that the car is the same height as when you got it. Most people drive these cars around somewhat lower than stock, because they never actually measured and didn't account for the car lowering as the torsion bars age.

Maybe you are "sharp" enough to know when your car is on the bump stops, but let me tell you, I have talked to people on this site that said their car "handled and rode great" while it was in fact sitting on the bump stops the entire time. It's not even about being smart, some people just don't know. With stock torsion bars, even at factory ride height, the bump stops come into play quite a bit more than most people think. Put a dab of grease on the tops of the bump stops and go for a drive, you may be surprised. The stock bump stops are progressive and pretty soft at first, especially the LCA bump stops. They were designed to act as part of the suspension, and it can actually be somewhat difficult to know when they start touching unless you're driving the crap out of the car. Around town with stock suspension parts you can be using them all the time and not even realize it, it's not very noticeable unless you're slamming down on them and fully bottoming out the suspension travel.


Why would I not believe you?

Lots of people don't. Like I said, I've gone back and forth with people about their car actually sitting on the bump stops while it was at ride height that didn't believe me until I told them to take a picture and post it. It's an internet forum- you don't know me or my level of experience with these cars. Plenty of information on the 'net (and this site) that isn't fully accurate.

Regardless of all that, I would bet that the difference you're getting with your "bounce test" has very little to do with the torsion bars themselves. I suppose it's possible there was some kind of manufacturing error at Sway-Away, but everything I've seen from them has been very high quality. Which means something else is going on.
 
Drove it today, and even with blown out shocks, no sway bar and 14" tires it was a huge improvement over the stock t bars. Ordered a set of Hotchkis shocks today, and will be starting bbp conversion with 18" wheels and tires.
 
Drove it today, and even with blown out shocks, no sway bar and 14" tires it was a huge improvement over the stock t bars. Ordered a set of Hotchkis shocks today, and will be starting bbp conversion with 18" wheels and tires.

This is great to hear.
While 72blueNblue is right that the experiment had too many uncontrolled variables, I know what you mean when you expect an attribute to change and you observe something entirely different, it sets off alarms. I don't blame you for asking the question.

It sounds like you're on your way but I'll just add that I have these same torsion bars, Hotchkiss/Fox shocks and the combination seems pretty good so far. I think you'll like them.

Is your 1975 car really running the small-bolt-pattern? I've heard of some '73s (all /6 cars, IIRC) that came with SBP but nothing that late into production. Very strange.

Which wheels/tires are you looking at?
 
This is great to hear.
While 72blueNblue is right that the experiment had too many uncontrolled variables, I know what you mean when you expect an attribute to change and you observe something entirely different, it sets off alarms. I don't blame you for asking the question.

It sounds like you're on your way but I'll just add that I have these same torsion bars, Hotchkiss/Fox shocks and the combination seems pretty good so far. I think you'll like them.

Is your 1975 car really running the small-bolt-pattern? I've heard of some '73s (all /6 cars, IIRC) that came with SBP but nothing that late into production. Very strange.

Which wheels/tires are you looking at?


The Scamp is a 1975, and it is bbp with 1.03" t bars, bilsteins and 17" wheels.

The Duster is a 1971 with sbp and is the car that I just installed the 1.14" t bars on.

I will be putting 18" Coys c33 wheels on the Duster after I change it to bbp. I do not have front tire size figures out yet. After I swap to bbp I will measure for wheels and tires.
 
The Scamp is a 1975, and it is bbp with 1.03" t bars, bilsteins and 17" wheels.

How do like the ride with this t bar and shock combo? I just replaced my stock t bars with the 1.03’s and noticed a huge improvement in the ride (17in wheels/tires). I still have kyb’s that came with it and will upgrading to Bilsteins when $$ is available for it. I’m fighting worn out rear springs right now. Debating right now between new springs or 4linking the rear. I can’t wait to get the rear working with the front end, just don’t have the $$ for a while.
 
How do like the ride with this t bar and shock combo

The ride is nice and firm,but also controlled. I wouldn't hesitate to go with larger torsion bars. Even the Duster with 1.14" t bars and bad shocks rides and handles very well.

I'm almost convinced that it would be difficult to go too big on the torsion bars as long as the shocks are up to the task.
 
I run 1.14 bars and even add a bit off compression damping with the shocks so I’m sure you could go bigger. That size was the largest that would clear my tti headers.
 
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