2009+ 5.7 Hemi Eagle

-
Cevidicus

Cevidicus

CevidiGrinch
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
906
Reaction score
36
Location
West Central Texas
I saw several disscussions on 5.7 Eagle engines on another forum and thought I'd share my thoughts here too.

Iv'e had an '09 5.7 Hemi Eagle for over a year now. I have called around, researched, discussed, daydreamed till my head was ready to explode. Stu and the boy's at Inertia Motorsports(FABO site sponsor) have been quite helpfull.


Basically, you have 4 options if you have an '09+ 5.7 and want to run it in a classic body.

1. FACTORY EFI/IGNITION: (has been done in Jeeps by BG) Use a 2009+ 5.7 Challenger 6-speed pcm, intake, throttle body, injectors, electronic throttle pedal, HotWire harness,(+ anything I left out) and a custom tune on the pcm. Including the tune this is right around $3,000 and will make use of the VCT function. If you have MDS, you will have to replace the MDS lifers and yokes. Which requires removing the heads so new head gaskets and head bolts would be a good idea, but may not be needed.
2.CARB THE '09: Weld cam phaser to cam gear. Some trial and error with the degree wheel needed to get the cam positioned right. Might as well get a reground cam while you're at it. Camselection is quite limited. One could also get a custom ground billet cam if $800 is not an issue. So, weld phaser & degree cam, reground cam, push rods, non-mds lifters/yokes, head gaskets, and labor is about $900. Plus you will have to run the FAST XMI ignition ($700-775 with harness) because the MSD will not work with the '09's tone wheel. Also add carb compatable 6.1 style intake manifold.
3. AFTERMARKET EFI WITH VCT FUNCTION: Electromotive XDI Nobody has done it and it is like 4500 just for the electronics and the plugs/wiring which you have to adapt to your application. Plus dyno tuning time, intake, throttlebody, injectors and so on.
4. BLOCK SWAP: Swap the internals from the '09+ into an '08 down block. Factory 08 down efi may not work due to the 52 tooth tone wheel on the 09 crank. 08 down uses a 32 tooth wheel, I believe.


There are pro's and con's to each approach. None really qualify as cheap. All require a well thought out plan.

If one wants a more agressive/radical engine in the stock displacement, a block swap makes the most sense. This is due to the availability of cams for the 08 down blocks.
 
were does the 3,000 number come from when using the stock harness? why would you have to get rid if the MDS? As i was looking at using a 09 and up challenger with the 6 speed manual. could you possibly post the link?
 
swinger74 said:
were does the 3,000 number come from when using the stock harness? why would you have to get rid if the MDS? As i was looking at using a 09 and up challenger with the 6 speed manual. could you possibly post the link?
Click to expand...

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1182486#post1182486

Post #50



"Here's what it looks like for me...

670 pcm 2009-10 6-spd Challenger
1095 Hot Rod Harness
98 pedal
300 FCM
209 5.7 challenger intake manifold
135 throttle body
0 my injectors
225 non mds lifter set w/ yokes
28 mds solonoid plugs
_______________
2757 Plus shipping from several vendors

That is just the bare minimum..."

That is for my circumstances. I have a truck engine with no wiring, pcm etc.

If you have the whole set up from a Challenger with a 6 speed it may be easier or cheaper than what I have listed.

The $670 pcm is from HotWire and has had the skim code removed, rear O2 sensors & trans sensors turned off etc. Im not sure if a stock harness will work or not. An '09+ 6-speed Challenger would not come with MDS.

:happy8:
 
hmm that ms3 pcm is starting to look even better after seeing the prices for hot wires stuff. I dont think it would be too hard to modify a factory harness either, and i would definetly loose the drive by wire and pick up a different throttle body off e bay 199.00 but im an odd ball and tend to do things differently than others would so take this with a grain of sand.
 
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6489046&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

I hate to keep posting moparts links but it's good info. This one is a 5 pager...on the 09 head with lots of useful info(compression ratios, intakes, etc.).

"Just got my set flowed 5.7 stock head
intake ............. exhaust
.100 72.2 ............ 56.6
.200 150.4 ............ 112.4
.300 217.3 ............ 148.9
.400 272.5 ............ 176.3
.500 299.2 ............ 183.6
.600 302 ............ 185

not bad for a STOCK HEAD. MattW"
 
jeffneal66 said:
Great stuff, keep it coming!
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm tryin'...

Moparts has a ton of posts on the New Hemi. gremlinsteve, Zippy, Mattw, hemidup (FABO Member as well) are a few members who have great posts to search for. :read2:

I can't post links to all of them. But, if you do some seaching you will find alot of great info. The LXForums have tons of threads with engine combos and more...

:burnout:
 
Some possible specs on the stock Eagle cams

info from: http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f18/comp-cams-new-5-7-hemi-xfi-cams-40667/index6.html


196/196 @ .050, with .477/.462, 113 LSA

LX: 258*/288* advertised .472"/.480" lift 39* overlap

That duration is at .006, not .050.


Automatic 5.7
186/208 (4 lobes are actually 205 on the exhaust for MDS)
499/493 (4 lbes have 486 lift on the exhaust for MDS)
115LSA
103ICL

6-Speed 5.7
187/205
499/486
114.5LSA
101.5ICL
 
"The new 5.7 and 6.4 (no more 6.1) are the same block and the 6.4 cam has .577 and .537 lift at the valve and 286/288 deg total duration."

Aparently, this cam won't work in the 5.7 Eagle engine due to piston to valve clearance. The 6.4 has valve notches in the pistons...

...Just incase anyone wanted to know.
 
Excellent Research Cevidicus,

The only part I don't like is how Comp Cams is applying for a patent for their phase limiters. This could restrict the availability of parts.

Otherwise this is good news.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Thanks. I've been researching this engine for nearly 2 years now. Been down many dead end roads and faced many disappointments.

Im tickled that somebody finally came out with the phaser limiters.

But, may not matter in my circumstances.

It's looking more and more like MegaSquirt will be the way to go for me. If not Ill lock out the phaser and run a carb with a FAST XIM ignition.

Tons of potential with these engines.
 
I just got done installing a magna charger kit, heads, and cam on an 09 Hemi ram. It looks like it's going to be about 500 to the rear wheels. Not to bad considering we did a before dyno and it was 338 to the wheels. The eagle motors seem like the way to go. Can't wait to see one up and running in an a body.
 
With regards to aftermarket tuning. In the case of Chevy stuff there are companies like HP tuners that offer nearly complete control over the Chevy computers which helps greatly with tuning, and probably simplifies putting an LS motor into a muscle car. HP Tuners promised Mopar support over three years ago, so far nothing. I've periodically checked into their forums, only to be disappointed.

What I find so interesting is that programmers can hack an iPhone in a week but, HP tuners can't hack the ECM for a Dodge in three years. :mumum:

I don't want to start rumors, but I really think that the Chevrolet factory engineers work far more closely with the aftermarket than do the Mopar engineers.

The reality is that if you are trying to gain full control over engine parameters you have to go with an aftermarket engine controller. Currently you have three choices: FAST, AEM (Mopar branded), or Megasquirt. (Big Stuff and Motec probably works or be made to work as well, though I have not confirmed it. The key to engine control computers is that they need just a few sensors, TPS, CLT, ATS, MAP, Camp Position and Crank Position.)

With the ability to lock out and or restrain the variable valve timing this greatly simplifies 09 and later motors installation into a classic muscle car.

Currently Megasquirt is testing VVT in beta.

The key benefit of VVT is a broader flatter torque curve. If you look at the torque curves on modern motors that have both variable valve timing and variable intake lengths, the torque curve is ruler flat from about 2K to redline. If you were to examine the torque curve between the 6.1 and 6.4 hemi, although there is only 45 HP difference between the two motors the 6.4 will spank the 6.1 because of the much broader and flatter torque curve, vs the peakier 6.1 hemi.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
03ramit1 said:
I just got done installing a magna charger kit, heads, and cam on an 09 Hemi ram. It looks like it's going to be about 500 to the rear wheels. Not to bad considering we did a before dyno and it was 338 to the wheels. The eagle motors seem like the way to go. Can't wait to see one up and running in an a body.
Click to expand...

FWIW...A stock 5.7 2010 Eagle motor equiped with the Magnuson in QC Ram in our shop put down 425 rwhp and ran mid 13's.
 
hemidup said:
FWIW...A stock 5.7 2010 Eagle motor equiped with the Magnuson in QC Ram in our shop put down 425 rwhp and ran mid 13's.
Click to expand...

That's good to know, how much boost was it running? This truck has ats trans, ported heads, blower cam, long tubes, and will be on 8psi. I'll keep you posted on the numbers, it should put down 500 if you were at 425 on a stock motor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top