220 volt plug in problem

-
Rapid Robert

Rapid Robert

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
630
Location
Lincoln Nebraska
went to plug in the 220 volt welder to the wall socket & the 2 flat tangs on the plug in are turned 1/4 turn so it would not plug into the wall socket. WTF! I was not expecting this, is their an adapter for this? thank you for your time. RR
 
Scody21 said:
Post a photo of both. There is different amp rating for each of the plugs.
Click to expand...
And there's a mittfull of different styles even within a given amp rating...
A few:
1740869127519.png

If your circuit is rated properly for your welder, the easiest solution would be to replace the receptacle with the proper style, but an adapter pigtail could also be made with a plug and receptacle of the proper configurations.
But make absolutely sure your circuit (wiring and breaker) are adequate for the draw of your welder!
 
You really need to know what you are working with for the supply and for the device

Rv supplies and Amazon, maybe home Depot have conversion adapters.

Also some of the nema plugs are typically or always for 120v while others are typically or always for 220v

Some 220 devices need a neutral so they can also provide 120 to the device. Wall ovens and electric dryers are an example (Typically it would have 3 tabs and a ground, 4 total)
 
Rapid Robert said:
went to plug in the 220 volt welder to the wall socket & the 2 flat tangs on the plug in are turned 1/4 turn so it would not plug into the wall socket. WTF! I was not expecting this, is their an adapter for this? thank you for your time. RR
Click to expand...
You say that you went to plug in your 220V welder and the plug did not match the receptacle. Is it a 220V receptacle? Have you used it as a 240V receptacle in the past? I really don't want to sound condescending, but your post was pretty vague. I have a Miller welder that will do 120 or 240. The main plug is for 120V, but it came with a 240V adapter. It works great on 240V. I have welded 1/8" plate with it on 120V. If it is a 240V receptacle and the tangs don't match, you can always buy the correct plug end and wire it to the end of the cord. Or, like @Professor Fate said, maybe you could find an adapting pigtail.
 
Ok, its at my buddys garage & the 2 flat lugs on the 3 terminal plug in are horizontle and the 2 slotted holes on the 3 hole wall receptacle are vertical. I may have the vertical/horizontle switched but it is a 220 volt outlet and a 220 volt welder.
 
The first is 30 amp and the second is 50 amp. This is definitely not advice, but someone could, in theory, change the plug on the 30 amp unit to a 50 amp plug, and make it work.
 
I took a replacement cord for a dryer that fit my outlet and put a box on the bare end with the outlet that I needed.


Alan
 
Make sure the 30 plug goes to a 30 receptacle and the 50 amp to a 50 amp receptacle. The welder is most likely a 50 amp plug versus the dryer being a 30 amp plug. DO NOT try to rig something up, the results will be some thing you won't like.
 
Rapid Robert said:
Ok I will see about sourcing a 50 amp plug in
Click to expand...
My old All Star MIG(mfr'd. by Century) has the smaller version(240/250v-15A), see the dimensions, but it is either 15A or 30A.....My dryer runs off of a 30A breaker, even tho' it uses the 10-50 socket & plug. If You're cadapting, it's better to use heavier conductor & sockets, protected w/the lower amp breaker rated for Your equipment/appliance & it's OE conductors. I use 6ga. for all of these types of cadapta-things.
 
The plug on the wall is supposed to be sized to match the wiring in the wall and the breaker at the other end. If your welder is rated at 30 Amps, and you plug it into, for example, your stove outlet, which is likely 50 Amps, you're fine because the wiring in the wall is over-rated for what you're doing with it.

If it's reversed, and you adapt a 50 Amp welder to run on a 30 Amp circuit, now you're overloading the circuit. The circuit breaker SHOULD protect you, but nothing in life is guaranteed. You run the risk of overheating the wiring in the wall, and that's....a bad day.

NOW, let's say some dork who doesn't get all this, that owned your house years ago decided he wanted to run HIS 50 Amp welder on HIS then-dryer 30 Amp circuit, so he swapped the breaker to a 50A so he didn't have to keep resetting that pesky-*** breaker while he was welding up the frame on his busted-*** Oldsmobuick, and he just swapped the cord on his welder so he could keep the missus off his nuts about needing to wash the dog hair out of her street-walking clothes, so then you're ROYALLY screwed if you use a 30 Amp plug to connect your 50 Amp welder to your 30 Amp dryer circuit with a 50 Amp breaker installed.

Like, really, don't do that. Unless you want to burn your house down. Oh, it's a rental? Still not OK.

Don't go swapping breakers to increase capacity. Children die because of that crap.

But your welder probably doesn't draw more than 22 Amps, which is what you want (75% of 30A). It's supposed to not exceed the circuit rating by more than 75% (and will probably say 30A on the case).

Pics help. We don't want this to get confusing.

Edited to Add: The REASON they change all the plugs all the time is SPECIFICALLY to keep you from doing stupid **** like the previous owner above.
 
get an adaptor to make it work . unless your going to burn a 10lb roll of wire off at full heat for a half hour straight it will be fine
 
I'll just add a few perhaps-facts. 220 and 240 VAC mean the same thing if single-phase (not 3-phase). Should measure 240 VAC if the power company is competent. In U.S./Canada (likely Mexico too), it is "split-phase" in the breaker panel, meaning that you can also tap 120 VAC between one hot bus (L1 or L2) and the neutral bus (N). Generally, you run 3 wires (L1, L2, N) plus a ground wire to each 240 VAC outlet or device.

Some devices don't connect to N, so you could leave out an N wire if hard-wiring them. Examples are AC compressors and EV chargers. If wiring to a plug, you should also run an N wire (if the plug has that terminal) since can't know what might later plug into it. 50 A loads are best hard-wired. Many EV chargers have suffered melted plugs, plus the quality plugs (Hubbell) can cost $100. Judging from my 1972 house, dryers and stovetops are usually 30 A, with ovens and AC compressors 50 A (mine had separate wall oven). Newer inverter-drive heat pumps (ex. mini-splits) are much more efficient and can draw <15 A.

Strangely, I found that my 240 VAC appliances weren't wired with a N (just L1, L2, gnd) but still needed 120 VAC for the controls. So, they tapped the ground wire to get 120 VAC (at minimal current). Such wiring isn't allowed in newer homes, but NEC code doesn't require re-wiring when installing a new appliance. That is why even today, 240 VAC appliances usually include a bus-bar to connect their N wire (white) to the gnd terminal, if installing in an older home with no N wire to the appliance location.
 
BillGrissom said:
Strangely, I found that my 240 VAC appliances weren't wired with a N (just L1, L2, gnd) but still needed 120 VAC for the controls. So, they tapped the ground wire to get 120 VAC (at minimal current).
Click to expand...
Would you explain this for me? I understand that you get 120V by using only one L1 or L2, but don't you need a neutral to complete the circuit? By tapping the ground, don't you effectively energize the ground?

I'm sincerely just trying to learn.
 
Righty Tighty said:
Would you explain this for me? I understand that you get 120V by using only one L1 or L2, but don't you need a neutral to complete the circuit? By tapping the ground, don't you effectively energize the ground?

I'm sincerely just trying to learn.
Click to expand...

Neutral (white) and Ground (green/bare) are both grounds. They eventually are connected at the main breaker panel. A small copper strip connects the ground and neutral bus bars. This piece is removed on all downstream breaker panels to keep them separated until the main panel.

Normally it is the device which determines whether it needs the green/bare to connect to its metal housing to prevent shocks if the black shorts. The neutral (white) ground is used to complete the circuit to ground in normal use.
 
Thank you for the explanation.

I've always been taught that you can't run a 120V outlet from a 240V circuit if it doesn't have a neutral. Is that not the case?

@Rapid Robert Not meaning to hijack your thread, I'll stop after this...
 
Technically, you could, as 240/220 is two separate 120v wires (the panel is basically split in two zig zag. A double pole breaker has one side on A, the second side on B. Most installations will use 3-wire, so red and black are 120v hot, white neutral, green/bare ground. The concern is that if you remove the little bar between the two breaker switches, power will still be on one of the wires if only one breaker is shut off, which may cause issues for someone who thinks power is off.

Outlets have a tab between the two plugs that can be snipped, allowing the top and bottom to be on their own circuit. So each for example can have 15a. This is fine, but the breaker has to have the pin connecting the two switches so both are either on or off at the same time.

As far as no neutral. No.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top