5.7 swap

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19dartsport76

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Hey guys, new to the forum.

just got a 76 dart sport with 318/auto.

my background involved more late 70's - 89 dodge trucks, new to the car scene, although not completely unfamiliar..

i am thinking of putting a 5.7 Hemi with an auto out of a truck into this car ( read on here that the car auto trannies involve alot of senors)

will i have to make mods to the tunnel to accomodate such trans?

i haven't read much with mention regarding a hemi with MDS system being swapped in....is this a pain or such a non-factor it's not getting any mention.

do i only need the factory ECM?

also this car has power steering...and from what i read i would have to change this to drop in the hemi, along with different motor mounts, headers, flexplate, remote oil filter.

am i on the right track here?

thanks
 
As far as MDS it's not really an issue if your engine has it because you can always disable it one way or the other (swap the special lifters to standard ones and get plugs where the solenoids go or just leave the solenoids in but unplugged). You may still be able to use MDS if the whole drivetrain gets swapped in, but I'm not sure about that. I'm fairly sure the computer probably needs a speed signal to activate the MDS system, but if you keep the trans with it you might be able to keep everything intact, though only the later engines (06+) use MDS and I think most people prefer the earlier engine computers since they are easier to tune. Also, as the years went on I believe more chassis components got included in the computer control (like wheel speed sensors and other stuff not directly engine or trans related), so it's a lot more trouble to use them in an engine swap unless you want to go all out and add stuff like wheel speed sensors to an old car.

As for a trans I think you'll probably have to cut some pretty big holes in the floorpan to fit any modern transmission. I would think the truck trans might be even bigger than a car one.

You look like you're on the right track for the other parts though. If you keep the truck trans you won't need the flexplate, but I believe all the Hemis use passenger side starters from the factory, so you'll either have to use factory manifolds for the exhaust or get custom with headers.
 
You are definitely on the right track. The truck trans is the 545RFE and is significantly wider and longer than a 904 or 727. If you are not comfortable with major floorpan cutting and welding as well as fabrication of a custom mount further to the rear than it is better to go a different route. Map63Vette has good advice, but is incorrect about the starter. It is still on the driver side with the 545RFE and TTI headers fit with this transmision. The collector comes within an inch of the transmission pan, but it does fit. If you do some looking you can find many older posts on the topic.
Here's a few:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=172972
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=164083
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=154422
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=120972

right now power steering is a no go with the factory k-frame, but one box in the works shows promise.
 
more questions...

does an after market k member, ie RMS alterktion, allow for this swap with keeping power steering?

does the required floor altercation cause a problem with original bench seat?

my car is bench seat and column shift. so i would have to switch from column shift to floor, and was thinking of a B&M z-gate or similar.
 
1. Yes, currently the only way to have power steering in an A-Body with a Gen III Hemi is with an aftermarket K-member. I know for a fact, that Alter-k-tion works and works well, it is probably the slickest way to put a GEN III hemi into a classic muscle car. That being said, HAVE A PLAN, TTI has two basic header designs, one for traditional K-Members and one for RMS or Magnum Force K-members, make your decision BEFORE you buy a set of $720.00 headers.

2. I THINK (80% sure) that you can make the bench seat work with no modification. That being said, incase I'm wrong (happens all the time, just ask my wife.) you could modify the seat slightly. As I recall there is a channel that runs across the front of the seat and forms the frame. At worst you'd need to remove the seat cover, foam and other padding. Cut the channel and make a slightly larger hoop and weld it back in. Considering the other mods to get the the 545 RFE trans into that car this would be the least of your worries.

2.A. It Appears the TCI is NOW making a stand alone transmission computer. Altough mentioned in various press releases as early as 2008, I cannot find the product on their webpage, you might wish to contact them.

3. According to TTIs website you will not be able to keep the column shift. TTI's website has notes regarding types of shifters that work with their headers.

4. Not asked, but if you use the 545 RFE from a truck you wouldn't be able to use the factory column shift anyways. Some have adapted the floor shifter out of a late model Challenger or Charger to work in their car.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Thanks for the link JDMopar, nice to be proven wrong once in a while.

I'm not a huge fan of column shifters, but it's nice to see that it is an option.

One other thing regarding hemi electronics. There's been some buzz about the new Hemitronix setup that uses a GM computer and sensors for the fuel and spark on a modern hemi.

It COULD end up being a slightly cheaper route to running a hemi, but prices haven't been finalized. Mopar Action has a price of around $2500.00 which includes the fuel system. The big downside is you have to pull the pan and crank to change the rear tone ring, as well as the front cover to change the cam ring and sensor.

Here's a link to their website with an explanation:
http://nutterracingengines.com/hemitronix/hemitronix_background.html

Again, not an endorsement, but trying to show you most of the options available.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
The factory ECM is an option. This is basically what Hot Wire Automotive uses, they use a factory service tool to access a series of menus to turn on and off certain features. For example, if you plan on using a 904/727 or a manual transmission, Hot Wire simply selects the manual transmission option in the service menu of the factory ECM. Think you'll simply buy your own service tool? They run about 4K on ebay. OUCH.

Certain years have advantages over other years.

The 2003 Hemi ECM is the most primitive and a little unfriendly, it had a separate controller for the transmission. Most people transplanting late model Hemis into classic muscle cars avoid them.

The 2004-2006 are arguably the easiest to make work in classic muscle cars for the following reasons:

1. Only '04-06 California (and states that have CA emission standards) computers utilized O2 sensors before AND AFTER the catalytic converters. So you only need 02 sensors in the left and right bank.

2. Not all 04-06 computers utilized a SKIM key. The Skim key is an anti theft device that is basically an RFID (Radio Frequency Identification Device) that creates a handshake between the key and the cars computer. No Handshake=No Start

3. The 2004-2006 Truck 545RFE is the easiest transmssion to put in a muscle car (obviously excluding the major surgery to your floor pan and cross member) because the speed sensors for the factory computer are located in the transmission itself. The car transmission utilizes the same wheel sensors for the ABS.

The following has been done successfully, it takes planning and diligence, but it is the cheapest way to get the hemi running in your car.

1. Find a suitable Hemi that is running, in a truck or car.
2. Remove the engine and transmission.
3. Remove the engine wiring harness.
4. Remove the engine power distribution center, complete with relays for the fuel injection pump, and relays for the ECM.
5. Remove the under the dash wiring harness, including ignition key, and OBD port.
6. Buy a copy of the factory service manual, the factory service manual will provide a complete wiring diagram and explanation of the various circuits and their function.
7. Using the factory servie manual begin tracing each circuit and remove the circuits you don't need, and keeping the ones you do need.
8. If you are using a factory transmission, and all the factory sensors you probably won't even need the factory service tool.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I surely wasn't out to prove you or anyone else wrong. I've gained a great deal of knowledge from your Gen 3 Hemi posts, as well as many others who chime in on this Gen III Hemi forum. When I saw Bodens pics about using a column shift on a 545....I was jumping for joy and doing backflips....lol. The way I see it, we're all like a bunch of sponges.....just soaking up knowledge. If we all share, we all learn. Posts get buried pretty quickly sometimes, and may be missed by any of us. I just wanted to point out Bodens success so others could see. :glasses3: :D
 
JDMopar said:
I surely wasn't out to prove you or anyone else wrong. I've gained a great deal of knowledge from your Gen 3 Hemi posts, as well as many others who chime in on this Gen III Hemi forum. When I saw Bodens pics about using a column shift on a 545....I was jumping for joy and doing backflips....lol. The way I see it, we're all like a bunch of sponges.....just soaking up knowledge. If we all share, we all learn. Posts get buried pretty quickly sometimes, and may be missed by any of us. I just wanted to point out Bodens success so others could see. :glasses3: :D
Click to expand...

Absolutely, Agree, I was totally serious when I said I like to be proven wrong. I hang out here for the same reason you do, the level of discourse and knowledge is spectacular. I learn something just about every time I log on. I appreciated the way you said it too, including the links. A lot of time, guys will just say, you're wrong, without any evidence.

As I've said before in other posts, I REALLY prefer the stock interior look. My goal for my project is a completely stock exterior and interior, except for a tasteful minitub with 325s in the rear. My car's going to be a 4-speed car, but the thought of stock appearing Dart with a bench seat column shift that runs 12s with a modern hemi is really cool. Can you say sleeper?

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
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