64 Dart 5.7 hemi update thread.

[Dodgenut64]

ok, i figure id start a post in the proper thread this time. I have a 64 dart gt convertible that im updating with a 5.7 hemi and alterktion front suspension. Im also going to be using a dash out of a different car. Anyway, i bought a locked up hemi from a guy to use to see how it would fit into my enginbay. i had the block cleaned up to see if it was rebuildable, but i got the engine back and it looks like i wont be able to use this 5.7 after all, looks pretty bad in the cylanderwalls in my opinion. thats ok, ill still be able to use it to mock up things. im getting ready to bolt up the k-member or frame of my alterktion onto my car. after this ill bolt up the 5.7 to see how things clear. ive been told i might have to notch out the passnger fenderwell a little otherwise i wont be able to get the valve cover off without pulling up the motor a few inches. ill take a few pics of it in the engine bay for anyone doing a 5.7 in an early A. im hoping the hood clears the air intake box (the one with hemi on it) and i hope the a/c compressor clears. i should have the engine sitting in the enginebay by this week.
as a twist to this swap im not going to be using any after market air filter set ups. i know id get a few more horsepower from a good cone shaped K&N air filter and intake tube, but im wanting to do this as if the factory would do it. So im actually going to try and use a airfilter box from a new hemi durango. I believe ill have to cut and mod my passnger fenderwell up in order to fit this thing in and make it look nice.
Will cutting on my fenderwell weaken my cars engine bay? i see guys cutting open the back of them when they use fenderwell headers, but unlike them, i will be welding a section back in, just further out so as to fit this air box. i might not have to cut much out, there is already a cut-out for the slant six alterntor as any early a-body ouner knows, i just need to make that area a little bigger.
i had a thread started on another area of this site and thought id move it into the restoration area.

 

[Guitar Jones]

A couple things to consider and I'm just thinking out loud here. Use an LX body intake (or even 6.1 heads and intake) and timing cover set up. Then you can use the car air filter and move the battery to the trunk. All the LX cars have the battery in the trunk.

Yes cutting the inner front fender well weakens the structure. How much depends on how much you cut out. I'm sure it can stand to have some of it removed, but I wouldn't cut it all out.

 

[Dodgenut64]

what about cutting out a section, then weld back in a new section that will house the air box? didnt know the LX cars had batteries in trunk, wow. were is it in the magnum?

 

[Guitar Jones]

If you box it back in there should be no loss of support.

The Magnum battery is in the back, under the floor in the spare tire well, same as the others.

 

[Dodgenut64]

thanks.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Ok guys, i dont have a pic, but i will this week. I put the k frame of my alterktion in my 64 with the motor mounts (the mounts were a little tricky, but i got em). Dropped the 5.7 in, stuck the driversside head on, clears nicely. I tried to put the passengerside head on but there are three small places in the fenderwell ill need to mod (allready knew id have clearance issues with that side). Stuck the truck 5.7 intake on.....man this is gonna be close. I think the plastic Ram intake might clear, but its the throttle body im worried about. I wont know for sure until i get a hood on, the throttle bodys edge is higher then the plastic air intake. i have a few options if it wont clear. The first is to see if i can shave the top part of the throttle body down, i might be able to take a little off of it. If thats not possible or if thats not enough, i might be able to have the hood modified to clear it. I was thinking of raising the 64s hump just a touch so that it wasnt noticable. The other option is to find a car hemi intake and front cover plate and see if the low slung alternator will clear my front frame rails. Ill take pics of were things need to be notched and of how close the hood will be.

I havent even messed with the steering column yet, but i have a plate that will move it over abit, i hope it clears. Ill probably have to mount the rack so i can see if the steering clears. Another heads up, I will need jeep grand cherokee exhaust manifolds, the passenger side ram manifold goes strait back and doesnt angle down. Hot Rod magazine clued me in on that one before i even put my engine in.

Almost forgot. So far it looks like the a/c and alternator are far enough down to clear the hood, but again, i wont know for sure until i get that hood on. Might have to use a different hose to go to the condessor from the compressor, really just need one that is bent further down. But the rams a/c hose might clear.

Im using an alterktion, so some of my clearnace issues arent as bad as stock suspensions. I dont think ill need a remote oil filter, which is good.

Wish me luck on the hood clearance, ill update ya guys later this week.

 

[Dodgenut64]

GREAT NEWS! I got home a few minutes ago and adjusted the hood i put on today before i went to work (i work second shift). With my hood in the down position i stuck my head into the engine bay and......the truck hemi clears :rock: :heart: :notworth: :bounce: \\/ :blob:

I even have about an inch of clearance. Ill take pics in the morning after i take the kids to the bus stop. Man this is great news. Now i know for sure that the truck hemi with its high mounted throttle body will clear my hood. this is not only great news for me, but its great news for any of you other guys trying to stuff a new truck hemi into an early A.

I did notice however that if you have a 63, you might have to modify your firewall, because of the bulge were the 63's wiper motor pushes out, but i think any 63 doing a v8 swap would need this. the back of the hemi intake clears in the 64 though.

I still need to see if the a/c compressor and alternator clear, but ill do that tomarrow, shouldnt take long. Its nice seeing my 64 with a hood on. When i bought it two years ago the hood was off. when i got home tonight and opened the garage my 64 was sitting there on stands, but she looked like a car again with the fenders and hood on.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Ok, ladies and gents i got some pics. After having to hunt down my camera i took some pics. As youll notice the passengerside head isnt on, gotta mod some stuff, and youll notice the alterKtion K member. As you can also see the hemi trucks throttlebody does clear the hood with an inch to spare, so i should have room for some hood insulation. With this good news i can but some major worries behind me. I might have to work on my basement for awhile soon, so it might be a little bit before i get to making room for the passengerside head. I also think the batteries gonna be real close, but i cant find my old battery tray to see if it will fit, if it doesnt i might mod that fenderwell a bit or move it to the trunk. I also need to see how my flaming river steering column is gonna clear. Doesnt look like ill have issues with an oil filter either so far, and the truck pan will be perfect.
Finally some progress.

 

[fstfish66]

nice prodject,,, lets see some pics,,,,

 

[Dodgenut64]

Well, looks like the A/C compressor and alternator clear real nice. With the alterktion, the oil filter clears and and the pan with all kinds of room. Ill post some pics tonite.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Heres the pics i promissed. Ill try to explain them abit. the first pics are of the Flaming River steering column im gonna use. With my AlterKtion, i ordered a plate that would move my column over a touch to clear the rear of the hemis wide heads. Well, im happy to say the plate worked out great as you can see in the first pic. Youll see it doesnt touch at all. The following pics after this show how the u-joint will (with some trimming of the heatshield), clear the exhaust manifolds. Now someone might ask "why not just get ride of the heatshields altogether", well i want to keep them on if i can. As ive stated in other posts, i want my enginebay to have a factory feel about it. Also heatshields on exhaust manifolds help reduce some heat in the enginebay and personally i think they look nice.
As far as headers, I believe headers may be out of the question if your gonna use a stock K-member, however, with the alterktion youll have room.
I gotta say Bill at RMS has made this hemi swap thing alot easier on me. remember this is an Early Dart (64) so the new hemi is even tighter in the engine bay then in 67 and Ups, so if your gonna use the alterktion youll even have more room then in a early a-body.
I cant say for sure if a 5.7 hemi would clear in an Early A with out using Bills setup, but i know it will fit in a 67 and Up, but you have to use manual steering, use a remote oil pump, and TTI headers.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Heres some pics of other things that cleared. The a/c compressor cleared and the alternator did aswell, as you can see by the pics. Also the oil pan and filter clear nicely (you wont need a remote oil pump with the alterktion, plenty of room).
the last pic gives ya an idea of were i want to put the durango air box. Again, some might say "why use the air box", well again its my plan to give my enginebay a factory feel about it. If i plan it right the durangos air box should open up right behind my grill, so it should get nice cool air feeding it. I will most likely have to modify my fenderwell in order to get the air box to fit, but im ok with that. When its done, it should look like the factory placed it there.

 

[USCG CHARGER]

Heres the pics i promissed. Ill try to explain them abit. the first pics are of the Flaming River steering column im gonna use. With my AlterKtion, i ordered a plate that would move my column over a touch to clear the rear of the hemis wide heads. Well, im happy to say the plate worked out great as you can see in the first pic. Youll see it doesnt touch at all. The following pics after this show how the u-joint will (with some trimming of the heatshield), clear the exhaust manifolds. Now someone might ask "why not just get ride of the heatshields altogether", well i want to keep them on if i can. As ive stated in other posts, i want my enginebay to have a factory feel about it. Also heatshields on exhaust manifolds help reduce some heat in the enginebay and personally i think they look nice.
As far as headers, I believe headers may be out of the question if your gonna use a stock K-member, however, with the alterktion youll have room.
I gotta say Bill at RMS has made this hemi swap thing alot easier on me. remember this is an Early Dart (64) so the new hemi is even tighter in the engine bay then in 67 and Ups, so if your gonna use the alterktion youll even have more room then in a early a-body.
I cant say for sure if a 5.7 hemi would clear in an Early A with out using Bills setup, but i know it will fit in a 67 and Up, but you have to use manual steering, use a remote oil pump, and TTI headers.

Thanks for the info...since I have a 67 Cuda that the 5.7L is going in can I still use the factory K frame w/TTI headers and stock steering column? I do plan on buying the alterkation later but I wanna get started on this build ASAP and don't have the 3600 bucks to throw in to the alter K frame nor the 1K for the Flaming river. Like I said before I do however want to replace it with what you have after the enginge is mocked up and before it goes into painting. The only problem I might run into is I will prolly have to use a oil filter relocater kit right? Or it there enough to have the original location with the K frame?

jason

 

[Dodgenut64]

Jason. can you pick up the latest Hot Rod Magazine? I think it will be very helpful for you.

I dont think there was enough room for headers on the 70 duster in the artical about this swap (they used exhuast manifolds), but they may have just used them becuase the ouner couldnt afford the tti headers at the time of the swap. As far as the flaming river steering column, i think it was only a a few hundred (with tilt) and i had to buy an adaptor to use the ten bolt steering wheel im gonna use (the adaptor was more). You dont need a different steering column in order to use the alterktion, using your old column is fine, but youll have to trim back the housing so it will clear the back corner of the hemis head. Agian, i recommend getting the latest hot rod magazine, because it shows a 5.7 hemi swap into a 70 duster. they use a factory K-member. The hemi swap is doable with a stock k-frame, but things are alot tighter.

You dont need the alterktion for a new hemi swap, i just went that route because i wanted something a little nicer then the stock stuff. Also my suspension would have had to been replaced with all new stuff anyway, so i went with Bills system. Im not trying to sell you on getting an alterktion, i just wanted people to see how things are coming along. Remember getting your car on the road is most important, you can always go back and get the alterktion if you feel you want it. I do feel however that Bill has been very helpful in looking out for us A body guys. It just so happens you dont get alot of the clearance issues with the alterktion as you do with the stock stuff. This is one of the reasons i got the alterktion. I understand its not cheap, but it is very cool. Im glad i bought it also. It may have set me back abit, but im ok with that because in the end ill have a nice setup for my 64. And before anyone says im crapping on the stock stuff, im not, it is fine to use it too.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Also took some pics of my 65 Polara guages sitting on top of my column. Got some work to do before the dash will ever fit in my 64 dart. The first time i saw the guages on a 65-66 polara, i just thought "wow" those are the coolest guages ive seen on a mopar and i thought of how cool they would look in my car. The guages will actually sit a little lower then what they are in the pics, but i just love sitting them there. They're gonna look so cool lit up at night with that classic glowing green color old guages emit. Also on these polara guages, the numbers on the speedo actually "float". Instead of the numbers being on the back ground of the gauge, they are actually on a clear lense thats mounted above the black background of the guage, so they appear to be floating in a black void instead of sitting on the back of the guage.

Ok, you can all make fun of me now.

 

[flyboy01]

Are those gauges or afterburners?

 

[jimrat]

Thanks for the info...since I have a 67 Cuda that the 5.7L is going in can I still use the factory K frame w/TTI headers and stock steering column? I do plan on buying the alterkation later but I wanna get started on this build ASAP and don't have the 3600 bucks to throw in to the alter K frame nor the 1K for the Flaming river. Like I said before I do however want to replace it with what you have after the enginge is mocked up and before it goes into painting. The only problem I might run into is I will prolly have to use a oil filter relocater kit right? Or it there enough to have the original location with the K frame?

jason

no room for oil filter on mine 1968 dart check out my garage pics if you like. I also installed a rack and pinion in my k-frame out of t-bird. A dakota rack works too. good luck jim

 

[Guitar Jones]

Looks good! Keep the info and pics coming.

 

[fstfish66]

J RAT. your car looks great,,love that green hemi,,,,dome rack pics would be kool

dodge nut,, 1 question,,,i am highly considering the alterkation for my 66
i need to know when you put your rims and tires on how far off the ground is that cross member , i need a little more height on my cuda,,

also are you going to use your factory heater?? the blower motor may interfer with the head,,,i am going to pull my factory heater,,and redo my engine bay,, i had a heater/defroster built,,by hot rod air,, they have a new heater/defroster out,, it usually works on vacuum to open from heat to defrost,,they converted it over to operate off of the dash cables in stead so it still works like the orignal,,and the size of the heater box is les then half the orignal,,and no more blower motor thru the fire wall. i think your idea of factory looking is KOOL keep up the KOOL work

 

[JR]

More dash fabrication pics!!!!!!! Those look cool as hell in there!!!!

 

[Dodgenut64]

More dash fabrication pics!!!!!!! Those look cool as hell in there!!!!

Thanks. Ok, when i tackle the dash project ill document it as well, for now ill show you a few pics. I first took a pic of a polara dash and cut it up and pasted it together to see what a downed sized polara dash would look like. in the first pic is the polara dash, the second is the modified dash. For some reason the pics are small....darn. anyway the third pic is of the polaras vent cables that mount under the guages. I want to use them also, so ive gotta modify my kick panel area to be like the polaras which are in the fourth and fifth pic. Lots of work, but in the end i want my dash to resemble and function like it did in the polara. I guess i could pass on the cool kick panel outside air vents and just remove the vent levers, but i think they are just to cool to pass up. this whole "polara parts in the dart" project will be done is three stages. first the dash, then the vents, then the console. Should keep me bizzy for some time. ill go into detail as i get closer to doing it, but for now theres mods in my engine by i gotta tackle first. The last pic is of a polara dash in a polara. My car should look alittle like this, if i can pull it off. The idea is to have a custom car, but for it to look like the factory did it.

 

[Dodgenut64]

"dodge nut,, 1 question,,,i am highly considering the alterkation for my 66
i need to know when you put your rims and tires on how far off the ground is that cross member , i need a little more height on my cuda"

Havent put any wheels on yet, but are you talking about the section of the frame that crosses from one side to the other? Bill might be able to help you with that, i remember some one asking about how high the alterktion could be adjusted. Are you looking to have your car sit up high like the Hemi Darts? Im gonna go a little lower then what my dart originally road.

"also are you going to use your factory heater?? the blower motor may interfer with the head,,,i am going to pull my factory heater,,and redo my engine bay,, i had a heater/defroster built,,by hot rod air,, they have a new heater/defroster out,, it usually works on vacuum to open from heat to defrost,,they converted it over to operate off of the dash cables in stead so it still works like the orignal,,and the size of the heater box is les then half the orignal,,and no more blower motor thru the fire wall. i think your idea of factory looking is KOOL keep up the KOOL work"

As far as the heaters blower motor, i think ill be ok, the Hemi heads slant down and the blower motor opening is about the same hieght as the master cylander mounting area, and that clears ok. Looking at the pic of the close up, you can see the bottom of the hemi intake. The head mounts flat to the bottom of it and doesnt rise much before slopping back down. Ill stick my heater back in for a better pic tomarrow, but im thinking ill be ok. As far as replacing my heater, im gonna have to modify my heater box so that i can use the polara kick panel outside air vents, So by the time im done, the darts air box on the heater will look alot different. As far as the rest of the heater, im gonna try and use it. Remember that 67 cuda heater a/c unti i was gonna try and fit in my car? well its a touch different then what would come in a 66, but i might still be able to use it. the 67s evaporater hoses come out in a different spot then on the 66. So in the end, ill have a hodge podge set up. I want to use as much modern A/C stuff as possible, with the evaporator probably being the older piece. Im determaned to keep my fresh air vents or "ball coolers" as one person called them. Those are one of the great things about the old cars. Being able to open those vents and....whoooosh, outside air comes rushing in up your shorts. Lots of things to mod just so i can use my polara dash stuff, but i really want to try and make it happen. And the list goes on.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Are those gauges or afterburners?

Both. He he.

 

[Dodgenut64]

OK, got the passengerside head on today. Had to take of the exhust manifold to get it on. Well looks like the heater motor will clear. But the tight spot in this swap is gonna be the valve cover and exhaust manifold.

 

[Dodgenut64]

Heres the tight spots. In the first pic youll see the hump with the blackish spot on it...well that "spot" was supposed to be a nice drawn square, but the marker ran out like water. Anyway that spot is were the upper control arms cam bolts go. Cool thing is i only have to trim it up abit, so it wont effect the travel of the suspension. Im just gonna cut it, then weld a piece of metal back over the hole. Without doing this, i dont see how i can get the exhaust manifold on without making sure its on when the engine goes in, but i would like to be able to take the head off without having to lift the engine out. My luck, if i didnt do this id get a valvecover leak or head gasket leak and have to pull the engine anyway.
The other tight spot is three valve cover bolts. Ive been told you can get the engine in ok, but to get a valve cover off without lifting the engine is impossible (in Early A's anyway, should have more room in later models). You can kinda see in the pics were i need to mod this area. Ill need to cut for the center one, but for the other two i might be able to slightly beat a dent in so the bolts fit in.
The last two pics show just how wide the hemi is. The mods i gotta do to get this engine to fit arent nearly as bad as it could have been. So i can honestly say im very pleased. Im lucky this engine even fit in this early A body. Hope you guys enjoyed the updates. I gotta get back to working on my basement, so i wont be able to work on my car for awhile. But i will post new stuff when i can. I hope this thread is helpful to anyone wanting to put a new hemi in an early A body or even a later A. I got a long way to go before i get to drive my car, but im having fun working on it.