69 Cuda fish dead in the water....

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69CudaFan

69CudaFan

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Here is what I have. 1969 Plymouth Barracuda 340/4 speed. Mopar conversion (chrome box), Mopar performance coil, fairly new wires and plugs, recently repaced but not by me.

Here is the issue. Started the car last night to go for a quick ride and all seemed well. Fired up, held a good strong idle. Let it warm up for a couple mins (even though I live in SoCal and it was about 70 degrees). Got about 5 mins from my house and literally the car died while it was on the move. Tried to drop it into second and get it to catch as I was pulling to curb. Nothing.

On the side of the road to investigate. I thought it was perhaps a fuel issue or the pump crapped out. Car is getting plenty of good gas, I can see it squirt in when butterfly is open and certainly can smell it. Brand new battery so car cranks over great, but it will just not fire. Then I look at the distributor, and it seemed to move pretty freely to the left and right. I had a friend move it while I was cranking it, then put it back where it was when that did not work.

I just was wondering where should I start on this one. I have a new set of plugs on standby and really want to get this car running stong by the weekend. I am a newb to ignition troubles and have done some reading where people say "check the ballast resistor" or your box is bad. This problem seemed to come on all of the sudden. Should I pull the coil wire and check for spark? Or should I start at the plugs and work backward? I do not want to blindly throw parts at the problem but I do want to solve this. I do not have a multimeter, timing light or things like that, just the basic shadetree mechanic's tool set (rachets and wrenches). I am sure I can do the work with some solid directions from the FABO community. I would be eternally grateful.
 
Its electrical, Pull a pulg wire and see if you have spark, That your first step.
 
Yes, you need to first see if you are getting spark, start with pulling the center wire out of the dist. cap, using one of your spare plugs you have. lay the metal part of the new plug somewhere on the engine where it will get a good ground, hook the center wire you just pulled out of the cap to the push on tip of the plug and crank the engine over & check for spark. Good yellow/bluish spark between the electrode and it's grounding tip, if you get spark there reinstall the wire into the cap and pull off one of the wires to a cylinder and do the same thing to make sure the spark is going thru the cap/rotor assy.

Also it wouldn't hurt to pull the dist. cap and make sure the rotor is turning. If no spark, you need to come up with a jumper wire, run it from the (battery +) to the coil + and see if it will fire.

I would assume you have a 4 pin ECU?????
 
Did you see one of my posts from the past where I chronicle this problem with our old 73 Satellite Sebring Plus??? Driving along, singing a song, all is good, then all of a sudden...nothing!!! Happened a couple times before Dad found out what you probably will, it's the ballast resistor. Don't know why and never did, but they're cheep and easy to change, and saved us from sitting around scratching our heads. At least it happened near the Dairy Queen one time, so that was a yummy way to wait. We also found out that if we sat long enough..ie, until the ice cream cones were gone, that it would fire back up and run for maybe weeks until the next time!!! Good luck with your diagnosis!!! Geof
 
Here is what I did:

Checked spark at the coil by pulling the wire, inserting a plug and grounding on the engine. Result: Blue spark - seems we are good there.

Changed out the ballast resistor. When I pulled of the old one (Made in Mexico), it was cracked where they fill in on the back. Replaced with new one (made in the USA, thanks Summit). Plugged in both sides.

Tried to fire the car. It bacakfired then ran. RPMS up to about two grand, then kicked it down. Ran kind of rough, then stalled.

Tried again, pumped and cranked and it fired again, then it was idling rough. Got under the hod to adjust the dizzy a bit (the timing may be a bit screwy from when my "friend" was wiggling it back and forth and stuck in the side of the road. RPMs picked up a bit, it seemed to smooth out and when I thought it was good, it flat out quit on me again. It did start, but then it was running and then just died.

Pulled the driver's side plug closest to the front (have not looked up firing order in the FSM yet) and tried to check spark at the plugs. No spark to speak of there.

Pulled the cap and rotor, rotor moves when turning over, so all seems well there. The copper connections that lead to the wires that go to the plugs seemed like they had some carbon on them, but the wires, cap and rotor button seem to be fairly new.

Need some more troubleshooting help here. It is getting gas, as I can smell it and each pump of the linkage brings fuel into the carb.

Perhaps I can take some pics since they are worth 1000 words, and I am rapidly approaching that number.

Thanks FABO members for your help....I certainly need it!
 
well, lets see, you replaced the ballast, thats good, ran for a while and died, no spark, ok, well sounds like we may have a couple of problems maybe, if it sits and cools, will it retain the spark? If so, then we have a heat soak problem, meaning that when the cars get hot something that causes the spark will go away, now did you replace the dist when the upgrade was done? If it is used, it may be the pickup in the dist, or it could be the box (chrome), it is unlikely that the box went bye bye, but i have had 3 chrome boxes in my cuda, so it possible, once you determine if it a heat issue, then we move on from there
 
it sounds like a loose wire / bad connection problem
I would start by investing a few dollars on a good test light they are only $5 or $10, a multimeter would be better, then start checking wires and connections, the problem could be anywhere, bulkhead firewall connector, ignition switch, visually check for obvious things like loose frayed or corroded wires first, wiring gremlins can be a pain, but with a little perseverance they can be dealt with
 
With engine off and key in the run position you should have 8 volts on the plus side of the coil. When cranking the engine over it should go from 8 to 12 volts because during cranking the ballast resistor is bypassed.
 
Sounds like something is breaking down because of heat. If you're running a stock coil, that is a cheap "throw at it item" and they do burn out. Even the standard Mopar stuff is pretty hot. Coils are usually the first to go and they do it usually with heat soak first and then they just fail altogether.
 
I agree with Stroker, I've had a few coils shut down the car when they got hot, then come back to life when cool. With your new electronic upgrade, a new hotter coil would be a good upgrade. If it's the coil, that will solve the problem, if it's not, you will still be ahead for upgrading to a better coil anyway!!! Geof
 
UPDATE:

Today, I have the time to futz with the car a bit.

Checked spark at one of the plugs - NADA

Checker spark at the coil - NADA

It is MP P 4876733 Blaster Coil wondering if there are issues if I run to the auto parts store and pick up new coil to test it out....will it dick up the chrome box?

Should I still check the positive side of the coil for the 8v and 12v when cranking?
 
69CudaFan said:
UPDATE:

Today, I have the time to futz with the car a bit.

Checked spark at one of the plugs - NADA

Checker spark at the coil - NADA

It is MP P 4876733 Blaster Coil wondering if there are issues if I run to the auto parts store and pick up new coil to test it out....will it dick up the chrome box?

Should I still check the positive side of the coil for the 8v and 12v when cranking?
Click to expand...

I don't believe a parts store coil will mess you the chrome box.
Do you have 4 connections or just 2 connections on the ballast resistor?
Was the electronic ignition on the car when you bought it?
 
Ignition was on the car when I bought it.

4 pin chrome box, NEW MDS Blaster 2 Coil (which replaced the MP one, albeit temporarily till I return the MDS one if I sort this out), NEW ballast resistor (1 ohm). Dizzy cap and rotor indicate it was from a 70's Barracuda (since the parts look the same. Got a 69 one and it was way off and on a hunch asked for one for a 72 Barracuda....seemed to match).

The car ran well until all of the sudden one day it quit on the road. Since then it would fire about once and then quit and nothing until recently when I was digging the problem.

The coil wire did arc blue (not the strongest, but it was blue, and now nothing. Nothing at the plugs, nothing after the coil. Dizzy is turnable by hand which may mean the timing is off a tad (which I will address once I get it fired). For now, I am at my wits end and need a beer....

Am I wrong to think that it is the box? I seem to have traced from the plugs back to the coil...and replaced the ballast resistor.

What am I missing?

Thanks again FABO.
 
Okay,

Here is what I know from the trusty multimeter

Volts at the battery - 12

Volts at the solenoid - 12

Volts at the ballast resistor with key in run position - 12

Volts at the coil with the ground to the coil disconnected -12

Volts at the coil with the ground to the coil connected - 3.4

Power at the plug for the chrome box with key in run position - 12

The ground wire from the chrome box to the coil did not give me tone when I grounded the meter and put the red side on the wire....

I STILL can get any spark with either the old MP coil and the new MSD Blaster 2 coil.

I am assuming (you know what happens when you assume things) that it is the box. Checked the bolts that hold down the box for ground and they are good. When I tried to get a jumper wire from the negative side of the coil to one of the bolts on the box, I STILL did not get spark.....

Is it safe to say that I have an issue with my four prong chrome box (P4120534) or am I missing something crucial?

Between the FSM, the directions for the electronic ignition upgrade and a multimeter I thought I would have this sorted out by now...

Here is the ballast resistor I replaced:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5206436/

Is this one the one on the wiper motor? There is one on there that looks like poop with a bent terminal. Should it be replaced?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-2444641/?rtype=10
 
a cheap generic ignition box from pep boys, autozone, or the like, swap it out for the chrome box, if it fixes it, it was a bad box, if it doesnt fix it put the auto store replacement in the glove box for when the chrome one does go bad (never if, always when) that and a balast resister are cheap insurance
 
caferacerx said:
a cheap generic ignition box from pep boys, autozone, or the like, swap it out for the chrome box, if it fixes it, it was a bad box, if it doesnt fix it put the auto store replacement in the glove box for when the chrome one does go bad (never if, always when) that and a balast resister are cheap insurance
Click to expand...

x2
 
Messed with the car last night. Took off the old chrome box and replaced with another (Thanks again Summit). Checked and rechecked connections and everything from the battery to the plugs. Sat in the car, pumped the gas once and the Cuda Fish roared to life. :happy2:

It was running rough so that tells me that I need to check the timing. With a relatively stock motor (only change I am aware of is the "purple cam", what kind of timing should I be running (without me looking it up on my trusty FSM CD), or should I just tune it by ear?

Seriously, there was some celebratory beers last night when I got it started. I guess the box was older than I thought....
 
Congratulations! You found it, now be sure the case of the box is firmly grounded. set the timing and you should be good to go. That really feels good, doesn't it?

ATB

BC
 
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