72 Dart Torsion bar replacements??

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swingingdart

swingingdart

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Well, I was driving my Dart last year and started to notice the passenger side was sitting low. Then I noticed the whole front was kind of low now. I crawled under the car and the drivers side is .25" from the bump stop and the passenger side it just sitting on it. Passenger side has the adjuster all the way in just about. I might have a bit more threads from the drivers side. It's a 318 original car, and these are the same torsion bars it's always had.
Is it time for new torsion bars? Or what's going on?
P.S. I checked for structural damage on the car, all is well.

I've been looking for new ones online, is there a place that sells US made bars? Also, I can only seem to find 1.03 bars...
Any help is appreciated!!!
Thanks guys!
 
The ride quality is great is great, not stiff but not mushy. I first had them with KYB shocks which was fine and then went with Bilsteins all around and it changed the whole car for the better. I got them from PST who are a sponsor on this site and for being a member you get 10% off.
 
Jeff Seighman said:
The ride quality is great is great, not stiff but not mushy. I first had them with KYB shocks which was fine and then went with Bilsteins all around and it changed the whole car for the better. I got them from PST who are a sponsor on this site and for being a member you get 10% off.
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NICE. I'll look at PST!!
Thank you for the help!!
 
I would look at the receivers on the tortion bar cross member, rust can destroy the welds / metal


I know you said the you checked for structural damage, but if they are rotating you might not see it.

You could jack up the front from under the k member, put marks on the receivers and the cross member , then support the car by its wheels and look for a chance in the marks on the receiver.

My 67 dart has the OEM bars and I have lots of adjustment.


Are your bars originally slant 6 bars but now you have a BB?
 
Dana67Dart said:
I would look at the receivers on the tortion bar cross member, rust can destroy the welds / metal


I know you said the you checked for structural damage, but if they are rotating you might not see it.

You could jack up the front from under the k member, put marks on the receivers and the cross member , then support the car by its wheels and look for a chance in the marks on the receiver.

My 67 dart has the OEM bars and I have lots of adjustment.


Are your bars originally slant 6 bars but now you have a BB?
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I'll take a look, and make sure I'm not missing something.
Nope, always a 318 car, and still has the 318. Not saying the torsion bars are right becuase anything could have happened over the years. But it was fine till last year!
 
Dana67Dart said:
I would look at the receivers on the tortion bar cross member, rust can destroy the welds / metal


I know you said the you checked for structural damage, but if they are rotating you might not see it.
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That was my first thought too.

A T-bar crossmember may look perfectly fine on the outside, paint and everything, but the crossmember rusts from the inside out. Water, even from washing the car, migrates down the inner fenders onto the top of the frame rails and into the rails and crossmember. Combined with dirt, now mud, it sits there and rusts. I have pictures somewhere of a twisted out t-bar socket and the crossmember wall is paper thin.

I was driving a 69 cuda home from where it had been stored at a body shop. I got within a couple blocks of home when BAM! The front end collapsed onto the bump stops. That turned the A56 'cuda 340 into a parts car. Back then, repo parts weren't available. Any older Mofan who lives in the rust belt knows about this. The front frame rails under the firewall where it kicks up to accept the UCA's is also very susceptible to rust. A lot of A-bodies got junked back then even when only 10 years old.
 
KosmicKuda said:
That was my first thought too.

A T-bar crossmember may look perfectly fine on the outside, paint and everything, but the crossmember rusts from the inside out. Water, even from washing the car, migrates down the inner fenders onto the top of the frame rails and into the rails and crossmember. Combined with dirt, now mud, it sits there and rusts. I have pictures somewhere of a twisted out t-bar socket and the crossmember wall is paper thin.

I was driving a 69 cuda home from where it had been stored at a body shop. I got within a couple blocks of home when BAM! The front end collapsed onto the bump stops. That turned the A56 'cuda 340 into a parts car. Back then, repo parts weren't available. Any older Mofan who lives in the rust belt knows about this. The front frame rails under the firewall where it kicks up to accept the UCA's is also very susceptible to rust. A lot of A-bodies got junked back then even when only 10 years old.
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What would be the best way to tell if this was the case?
 
Take a very close look at the torsion bar sockets where they enter the crossmember. Poke around, tap the metal surrounding the sockets. The sockets never fail, it's the metal they are welded into that twists out.
I'll see if I can find an old pic.
 
KosmicKuda said:
Take a very close look at the torsion bar sockets where they enter the crossmember. Poke around, tap the metal surrounding the sockets. The sockets never fail, it's the metal they are welded into that twists out.
I'll see if I can find an old pic.
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Sounds like the best next move is to pull the bars and see what's going on in there, at least before I order new ones!
Car was pretty much rust free, but I've seen crazy things on cars, I wouldn't put anything past it.
I appreciate the help!
 
swingingdart said:
Sounds like the best next move is to pull the bars and see what's going on in there, at least before I order new ones!
Car was pretty much rust free, but I've seen crazy things on cars, I wouldn't put anything past it.
I appreciate the help!
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Just a FYI, you need to call PST to get the discount.
I love my 1.03 bars as well.
 
If the car has just gotten lower over time it’s probably just worn out torsion bars.

All springs sag over time, with a leaf spring it’s easy to see, they go flat. With a torsion bar there’s nothing to see because the “sag” is happening radially. The car just slowly gets lower because of how the suspension depends on the hex offset of the bars for setting the ride height.

Torsion bar socket failures are usually catastrophic, ie, driving followed by a big “bang” and suddenly being lower on that side.

Not saying you shouldn’t check the condition of the sockets too, but it’s very likely the bars are just worn out.

With as undersprung as these cars were from the factory, the PST 1.03” bars are a great upgrade for even just everyday driving. With a good set of shocks the ride quality is great!
 
72bluNblu said:
If the car has just gotten lower over time it’s probably just worn out torsion bars
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Op stated that the adjusters are all in.

And one side is on the bump the other is about 1/2" up

And he just started to notice.

I agree it is logical to have it be a catastrophic failure, but you don't know till you really dig around


FYI My 67 dart with 323,000 miles has a ton of range left in the adjusters and sits about 1/2 inch from each bump. OEM bars.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Op stated that the adjusters are all in.

And one side is on the bump the other is about 1/2" up

And he just started to notice.

I agree it is logical to have it be a catastrophic failure, but you don't know till you really dig around


FYI My 67 dart with 323,000 miles has a ton of range left in the adjusters and sits about 1/2 inch from each bump. OEM bars.
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Adjusters being all the way in is usually a sign of the torsion bars being worn out. If the suspension is sitting on the bump stops that’s more like a failed socket.

And a failed socket is usually catastrophic, all the weight of the car on that corner is in the bar.

Again, I’m only going off the description, but failed torsion bar sockets are usually pretty obvious.
 
72bluNblu said:
Adjusters being all the way in is usually a sign of the torsion bars being worn out. If the suspension is sitting on the bump stops that’s more like a failed socket.

And a failed socket is usually catastrophic, all the weight of the car on that corner is in the bar.

Again, I’m only going off the description, but failed torsion bar sockets are usually pretty obvious.
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Yeah, I dont remember any big bangs or anything crazy, just thinking "Hey, is the front sitting low?!"
I havent been able to go dig into it, but this is a pic I took the other day. Pretty much just what I said already, but with photographic proof!

20230409_145529.jpg
 
swingingdart said:
Yeah, I dont remember any big bangs or anything crazy, just thinking "Hey, is the front sitting low?!"
I havent been able to go dig into it, but this is a pic I took the other day. Pretty much just what I said already, but with photographic proof!

View attachment 1716077450
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Yep, looks like you're just about sitting on the bump stops. But, not quite, which is important. Because if the torsion bar sockets had torn loose from the crossmember, the car would be sitting completely on the stops and bump stops be compressed, because the torsion bars would be out of the system at that point.

Never hurts to inspect things before you start buying parts, but my money would be on the torsion bars being worn out.
 
72bluNblu said:
:rolleyes:Yep, looks like you're just about sitting on the bump stops. But, not quite, which is important. Because if the torsion bar sockets had torn loose from the crossmember, the car would be sitting completely on the stops and bump stops be compressed, because the torsion bars would be out of the system at that point.

Never hurts to inspect things before you start buying parts, but my money would be on the torsion bars being worn out.
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Thanks for the help man!
Now just to scrounge up some torsion bar $$!
I'm excited at the prospect of having a better handling car, and better ride quality.
I noticed a huge difference with the HD340 leaf spring upgrade, I bet this one will be just as good!
 
I cannot find anything but the 1.03 or Bergman's 1.08 bars either and I'm afraid either will be too much for Vixen.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I cannot find anything but the 1.03 or Bergman's 1.08 bars either and I'm afraid either will be too much for Vixen.
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Firm Feel still has .94" (155 lb/in wheel rate) and 1.00" (195 lb/in) bars for sale.

.940" x 36" A-body Stock HP/Street (WR 155)

1.00" x 36" A-body HD Street (WR 195)

Not that I think the PST 1.03" bars would be an issue, if my math serves me right they should be ~230 lb/in. For reference I run 1.12" bars on my Duster, which have a 300 lb/in rate, and I use it as a street car/daily driver. Heck I have a set of 1.14's to swap into it, they're supposedly 350 lb/in.
 
They aren't cheap, prices have gone up quite a bit since I bought mine a few years back but Sway-A-Way still sells a full line of bars ranging from 0.87" to 1.24" 1965-1976 “A” Body – Sway-A-Way

I had 1.00" bars in my Duster for about 7 years made by Just Suspension (company no longer exists) with an iron-headed 360 and the ride was no different than with the stock 318 bars but handling was much more sure-footed. I now run 1.14" bars with an aluminum-headed 360 and now the ride is more like a modern car but still not harsh, surely not helped by my soft stock-replacement shocks which make it feel more bumpy (yes that can happen, underdamped suspension will ride poorly). I've driven/ridden in stock modern non-performance import sedans (Camrys, Accords etc) that have a worse ride than my Duster did with 1.00" bars and not any better than now with big 1.14" ones.

@RustyRatRod I highly doubt 1.03" bars would be "too much" in a slant-6 A-body but if you're really after more of the old-school boat-like experience you could go with the 0.94" Firm Feel or 0.96" Sway-A-Way pieces. I personally would not run any diameter smaller than that for any reason aside from a purpose-built drag car. Cars with torsion bar front ends do not react the same way to higher spring rates like coil-spring cars do, it's not a linear trade-off between ride quality and roll stiffness. Admittedly though I'm a bit biased and find stock-sprung classic Mopars to be not very enjoyable to drive with how much they roll in turns and how much you need to slow down on curvy roads to not slide off stock-type seats, especially a bench.
 
MopaR&D said:
They aren't cheap, prices have gone up quite a bit since I bought mine a few years back but Sway-A-Way still sells a full line of bars ranging from 0.87" to 1.24" 1965-1976 “A” Body – Sway-A-Way

I had 1.00" bars in my Duster for about 7 years made by Just Suspension (company no longer exists) with an iron-headed 360 and the ride was no different than with the stock 318 bars but handling was much more sure-footed. I now run 1.14" bars with an aluminum-headed 360 and now the ride is more like a modern car but still not harsh, surely not helped by my soft stock-replacement shocks which make it feel more bumpy (yes that can happen, underdamped suspension will ride poorly). I've driven/ridden in stock modern non-performance import sedans (Camrys, Accords etc) that have a worse ride than my Duster did with 1.00" bars and not any better than now with big 1.14" ones.

@RustyRatRod I highly doubt 1.03" bars would be "too much" in a slant-6 A-body but if you're really after more of the old-school boat-like experience you could go with the 0.94" Firm Feel or 0.96" Sway-A-Way pieces. I personally would not run any diameter smaller than that for any reason aside from a purpose-built drag car. Cars with torsion bar front ends do not react the same way to higher spring rates like coil-spring cars do, it's not a linear trade-off between ride quality and roll stiffness. Admittedly though I'm a bit biased and find stock-sprung classic Mopars to be not very enjoyable to drive with how much they roll in turns and how much you need to slow down on curvy roads to not slide off stock-type seats, especially a bench.
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Thanks. I'm not sure I'm after the "boat" feel. I'm simply concerned that with the 1.125" front sway bar and the 3/4" rear bar that the 1.03 bars might be too much. Maybe they won't be. I just hate to spend all that wad to end up riding too rough.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Thanks. I'm not sure I'm after the "boat" feel. I'm simply concerned that with the 1.125" front sway bar and the 3/4" rear bar that the 1.03 bars might be too much. Maybe they won't be. I just hate to spend all that wad to end up riding too rough.
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I think you'll be fine, sway bars don't affect ride quality much except when going over big bumps and potholes. At least in my experience.
 
MopaR&D said:
I think you'll be fine, sway bars don't affect ride quality much except when going over big bumps and potholes. At least in my experience.
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Thanks. As usual, I am probably making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
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