727, third gear?

[Aaron]

I installed a TCI sizzler 727 in my duster.

The question I have is, how late should third gear apply when you have the kickdown adjusted properly?

I installed a 2500rpm stall also, 1st and 2nd gear feel great and shift nice. Right now, around town I dont even get into third gear as it is. Its not until I go around 50 or higher (I need a new speedo cable, so this is a guess) that it goes into third. I first setup the car with the kickdown adjusted to factory instructions (loosen bolt, press lever forward to take up play, tighten bolt). I also tried it a little less to see if that helped(somewhat closer to the middle of the adjustment). But not a whole lot of change (I think the shifts were a little later even then). I understand that this tranny does have some sort of improved valve body or kit or something, but is this pretty normal operation? I used type F fluid when i filled the tranny (b&m trick shift), level is good in neutral, should I try a different fluid maybe?

Thanks

 

[JR]

When I adjust the kickdown I have someone hold the throttle at WOT (car not running) and I set the kickdown so it is fully engaged. It works everytime and I have never lost a tranny that way.

 

[fishy68]

I've seen this happen on some transmissions with TCI an B&M shift kits. Shift timing is messed up. The TCI trans. probably has one of their shift improver kits in it and it isn't a very good shift kit. Some times it works OK but then you get some that the shift timing gets screwed up on. You can try backing off the throttle pressure rod a turn at a time to get it to shift earlier but you may have to back it so far off that you'll no longer have passing gear or the trans may shift sluggish. Give this a try and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Aaron]

Thanks for the quick reply's!! I will try both methods after work Wed. . By backing off the adjustment, do you mean compressing the spring more, or letting it expand more on the rod at the kickdown lever? At the moment, I think I have the long spring compressed as much as can be done , unless maybe I removed it.

 

[Aaron]

I tried the first method (not 100% sure I did it right) had someone hold wide open throttle and then tightened the bolt. This I think applied too much pressure maybe? Took the car a block, wouldnt go out of 1st, so i came back. Was I suppose to remove the spring thats in front of the small bolt? I will go try some more adjustment and see what I can find.
Thanks!

 

[fishy68]

I'm not sure what spring your talking about. You usually don't remove any springs at all. You just adjust linkage. If you shorten the linkage so when the carb. is floored it doesn't push the linkage so far back that will make it shift sooner. That sounds like what you did on your second adjustment. Maybe just go a little farther.

If you have any more trouble post a picture of your linkage at the carb. if you can and I can see if it's put together right.

 

[JR]

I think the spring he is talking about is the one for the kickdown return. Some are mounted further down one the 2nd rod if you have the 3 peice set up (mostly cam on trucks and vans) the other way is to have one end at the pivot point at the mounting bracket on the intake and the other end attaches to the end of the stud on the carb linkage. It's kinda hard to explain without pics.

I agree with fishy, try to readjust it and if you can post a pic of your linkage. Kickdowns can be a pain in the ***!

 

[Aaron]

I think I got it going right. Indeed Kickdown is a pain. I made several adjustments, I ended up taking the spring off to allow the adjustment of the rod as much as possible, then test drove the car, shifts came very quickly (like 25 into third). Stopped, adjusted the rod some more (moving the rod forward a little in the adjustment) and kept doing this until I got it shifting at around 35 into third, its nice and firm I think. I made all the adjustment at the rod near the tranny lever. Is there an adjustment at the carb? I drove the car around for a nice run to clear all the old gas out of my tank for sitting so long immobile. Seems to do pretty good now. Now I just need to fix my turn signals so I can make this my daily driver.
Thanks for the help!!

 

[fishy68]

Good deal Aaron. Glad you figured it out. I know the old style has an adjustment right where the linkage hooks on the carb. I vaguely remember the newer style. been 20 yrs. since I saw one. If I remember right they had an adjustment farther back. Just loosen a 1/2" bolt and the linkage slides in and out. That's the best I can remember how to explain it. Maybe 360 scamp can shed a little more light on it.

 

[JR]

I took some pics of the stuff in my "box-o-kickdown junk". I don't have half the parts I used to so I kinda mocked some things togeather.

There are 3 main types that I can think of, there are 2 different 3 peice kickdowns and a 2 peice that was mainly on trucks and vans. When I say "peice" Im talking about the rods.
Here is one type.

There is a solid carb rod (one peice without tape) I did alot of custom work to some kickdown set ups a while ago, thats why the rod is taped. There is also on with a threaded adjuster on the carb end that I don't have anymore.

There is also a threaded and non threaded avalable for the center rod.

This is the pivot stud that bolts to the tranny.

Here is another that has a flat solid carb rod. If I remember right this is the one for the truck/van 2 peice set up. It also has a different intake mounting bracket.

Here are the 2 brackets side by side.

Or you can take the easy way out and get a Lokar or Lokar type kickdown cable that in my opinion is 1billion times better in function and looks.

The best way to adjust any kickdown that I have found is what I posted before. Have someone hold the throttle at wide open throttle (car off) then set the carb rod so the kickdown is fully engaged at W.O.T. You may need to fine tune it after a drive if you have a shift kit.

I hope this helps. If anyone has better pics or more info please post it!

 

[fishy68]

Hey 360 Scamp you wouldn't want to part with that piece of linkage in pic #4 that goes from the bell crank on the engine bracket down to the bell crank on the trans. would you. Mine is froze up and I can't adjust it. Tried all kinds of penetrating oil and it won't come loose. I need a little more adjustment but can't get it because of that. If you want to sell it send me a PM.

Sorry about the thread hi-jack Aaron.

 

[Optik]

the lokar setup is the way to go - set it and forget it. mine works perfectly, only had to set it up once, and it worked great on the stock tranny and still works fine after a rebuild and shift kit install. only reasons i would see not to use it is if you are doing a factory-correct restoration or don't want to spend the money on it.
-tim

 

[JR]

the lokar setup is the way to go - set it and forget it. mine works perfectly, only had to set it up once, and it worked great on the stock tranny and still works fine after a rebuild and shift kit install. only reasons i would see not to use it is if you are doing a factory-correct restoration or don't want to spend the money on it.
-tim

You are 100% right. It is the best nonpain in the @$$ way to go! The only thing that kinda sucks is the crappy directions that come with it and sometimes there is some streaching that happens with the cable but after about 2 weeks of use all the streaching is done.