904 / Slant six - No Reverse problem - broken band?

[Mopar King]

Hello everyone, first off if I am using the words/part names incorrectly please correct me.

I have a problem with one of my cars. It is a slant six with a 904 automatic transmission. I found out that i have no reverse at all. So my father and me parked the car in the back, lifted the car and removed the transmission pan. What we found was a small metal square "Strut" on the pan and the low reverse band lever hanging.:-(

I did a little research online and got enlighten on transmissions. I thought it would just be that the adjustment got loose or the strut fell off but on closer inspection I notice a small piece of metal in the back of the low reverse lever. I started to play around there and finally got it out of the back. I think it is a piece of the band, Its the back piece where the bump is :-(. I got this photo from online but I shot pictures of the transmission which i will upload soon.


Now, I have a few questions which I couldn't find online.

1. can I replace the low reverse band with the transmission in the car?

2. if I can't replace the band with the trans. in the car, what would be the steps to change the band? what needs to be removed out of the transmission?

3. if the band wasn't broken, would the lever still be hanging?

4. that square metal "strut", does it matter what side you inserted? meaning one side is longer and if you turned it then it becomes shorter

 

[fishy68]

If it snapped an ear off the band I'm sorry to say but the entire guts of the trans. will have to be disassembled to replace it.

I can't imagine any other reason the lever would be hanging other than a broken band.

The strut goes in only 1 way.

Pictures will verify things but it sure sounds like a broken band.

 

[Mopar King]

That is something i didn't wanted to hear.:banghead:

Ok so that answers #1,3,4. is there a website with instructions or books on the 904 transmission or any important info on how to rebuild it correctly. I seen the few videos on youtube on the 904 trans. which were helpful.




I uploaded two pictures but forgot to take the broken piece that I found, I will get that up tomorrow since its late at night.:coffee2:

Im guessing the best solution is to replace the trans. for now and save the other.

 

[fishy68]

Here's a link to a book on Amazon that is basically a copy of the factory service manual section on transmissions

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Chrysler-Torqueflight-A-727-Techtran-Manual/dp/B002KDJOMA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360999980&sr=8-1&keywords=atsg+torqueflite"]Amazon.com: ATSG Chrysler Torqueflight A-727 A-904, Techtran Manual (1960 & Up): Robert D. Cherrnay: Books[/ame]

I could make a long list of the steps of disassembly and re-assembly but it'd take up quite a bit of space and I still couldn't cover everything. Your best bet is to get the manual.

 

[TrailBeast]

That peice in your hand is not broken.
It's the band strut, and it is what the lever that is hanging down uses to apply the band.
Sometimes there is a chunk off the band ends laying up on top of the valvebody or in the pan.
It is possible that it just fell apart due to a misadjustment of the band if there is no other chunks in there.
I'd pull the valvebody and take a good look for other chunks and the band ends before I decided it was trashed.

This is the part you have in your hand.
Those bands are tough as hell, so it may not have actually broken.

 

[fishy68]

That peice in your hand is not broken.
It's the band strut, and it is what the lever that is hanging down uses to apply the band.
Sometimes there is a chunk off the band ends laying up on top of the valvebody or in the pan.
It is possible that it just fell apart due to a misadjustment of the band if there is no other chunks in there.
I'd pull the valvebody and take a good look for other chunks and the band ends before I decided it was trashed.

This is the part you have in your hand.
Those bands are tough as hell, so it may not have actually broken.

I took it by his statement

I uploaded two pictures but forgot to take the broken piece that I found, I will get that up tomorrow since its late at night.

that there is another piece that he has a picture of he just didn't load. I think he was just asking about how the strut goes in. I know what you mean the bands are really tough but they do break every once in a while.

 

[TrailBeast]

I took it by his statement that there is another piece that he has a picture of he just didn't load. I think he was just asking about how the strut goes in. I know what you mean the bands are really tough but they do break every once in a while.

Ah, maybe I misunderstood then.
I was under the impression that he thought the band strut was the broken part.

 

[Mopar King]

Ok here is the broken band piece i forgot to load yesterday. again I wished it was a mis-adjustment but it is not and the weather is not helping nether. :sad10:

I have a new set of questions,

1. I have another slant six / 904 transmission from a 1973 Plymouth Valiant that my father stored. Would it fit as a replacement on my 1972 Plymouth Valiant scamp - slant six?

2. what would I need to replace when Im taking down the old trans. and putting the new one in?

All I can think of is: front U-joint, Trans. gasket & filter, Rear trans seal, front pump trans. seal... am I missing anything? :scratch:



Im not going to throw the broken transmission away because it shifts excellent on all gears just the reverse broke. Im going to learn to repair it when the weather gets better. fishy68 thanks for the link on the book, Im ordering it tonight since I think its good to have and will help me alot

As of now, the car must drive ASAP

 

[TrailBeast]

Ok here is the broken band piece i forgot to load yesterday. again I wished it was a mis-adjustment but it is not and the weather is not helping nether. :sad10:

I have a new set of questions,

1. I have another slant six / 904 transmission from a 1973 Plymouth Valiant that my father stored. Would it fit as a replacement on my 1972 Plymouth Valiant scamp - slant six?

2. what would I need to replace when Im taking down the old trans. and putting the new one in?

All I can think of is: front U-joint, Trans. gasket & filter, Rear trans seal, front pump trans. seal... am I missing anything? :scratch:



Im not going to throw the broken transmission away because it shifts excellent on all gears just the reverse broke. Im going to learn to repair it when the weather gets better. fishy68 thanks for the link on the book, Im ordering it tonight since I think its good to have and will help me alot

As of now, the car must drive ASAP

Yep, that's the busted off end of the band alright.
That sucks.

The other trans shuld fit in there just fine, with no more than possibly a linkage or neutral safety switch mod (Probably a direct swap)
It sounds like you are on the right track with the seals and gaskets.

There is a lot of good videos on You tube on these transmissions these days also.

 

[fishy68]

Yeah that sure sucks but you have a good plan. Like TB said the 73 trans. should swap right over. Unless the front U-joint is bad it doesn't need replaced. The filter and seals are a good idea. I'd also do a band adjustment.

 

[Mopar King]

at least I can tell my dad that we can use his spare transmission, going to go order some parts tomorrow, inspect / clean the other transmission, read & memorize steps on how to remove and install a transmission. I will try and keep you guys updated on the progress if weather permits. any tips Im all ears.


Im going to re-read this thread here and look at a few of my manuals, so at least I have a plan set up on how to do this (first time with a transmission) + with my fathers help:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=188423

 

[TrailBeast]

at least I can tell my dad that we can use his spare transmission, going to go order some parts tomorrow, inspect / clean the other transmission, read & memorize steps on how to remove and install a transmission. I will try and keep you guys updated on the progress if weather permits. any tips Im all ears.


Im going to re-read this thread here and look at a few of my manuals, so at least I have a plan set up on how to do this (first time with a transmission) + with my fathers help:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=188423

Remove your distributor cap. (so it doesn't get broken against the firewall)
Undo any block to bellhousing braces and the starter.
Pull the inspection cover and converter bolts.
Drop the driveline.
Drop the crossmember, then linkages and lines.
Bellhousing bolts.
Don't let the converter fall out on ya.

Going back in, leave all the converter bolts loose till they are all in.
Then tighten.
Since it just broke a band you won't have to blow the cooler lines out.

 

[Mopar King]

ok thanks trailbeast,

1. can I use the converter thats in the car now?

2. what would happen if the converter is still attached to the engine when you take out the transmission? cause the spare trans. converter is still attached to the spare engine. I heard it causes some type of damage

 

[TrailBeast]

ok thanks trailbeast,

1. can I use the converter thats in the car now?
Yes

2. what would happen if the converter is still attached to the engine when you take out the transmission? cause the spare trans. converter is still attached to the spare engine. I heard it causes some type of damage
Disconnect the converter from the flexplate and push it backwards toward the trans.
Once the trans is out, then just slide the converter out of it.
When ready to go back in, ease the converter into the other trans while turning it in circles while supporting the center hub.
You will hear a very positive "Clunk" when it seats into the pump.
When putting it up to the motor you should have a gap between the converter and flexplate.
Put bellhousing bolts in and then pull the converter up against the flexplate and put your bolts in.

That should do it.

 

[d55dave]

The factory service manual for your vehicle is an excellent reference source and gives step by step instructions on repairing the trans. It needs to be completely disassembled to replace the broken band, and is a great time to freshen it up. The trans can be removed without unbolting the converter but it is not a good practice. If it is not pulled straight off, the converter or trans pump (in the front of the trans) can be damaged. For re installation, the converter must be fully installed into the transmission and fully engaged, then the transmission is installed in the car, then the converter is pulled forward slightly to meet the flex plate, and the 4 bolts installed. It cannot be installed any other way, or damage will most certainly occur. Your two transmissions should be completely interchangeable, the back up light change occurred in '68. If you had a small block - remove the distributor cap for sure, with your slant 6 it should not be an issue. If the new trans wasn't leaking before you may be fine in leaving the existing pump and output seal.

 

[Mopar King]

well the spare engine and trans were out of a parts car and it has been sitting for 5 years now maybe. So I think it will need some new seals since Im there. I wouldn't want to take it down again because it is leaking from a seal. I will check the new trans. out and takes some pictures. since the weather is too cold I'll be memorizing all this in my head so I can help my father the best I can + with your guys help... oh and good morning everyone

 

[Charrlie_S]

I just got that ATSG manual, a little while ago. I feel it is a waste of money. Do yourself a favor, spend the money on a factory service manual. Much better info on the trans. Then you have all the other info for your car, also.

 

[fishy68]

I just got that ATSG manual, a little while ago. I feel it is a waste of money. Do yourself a favor, spend the money on a factory service manual. Much better info on the trans. Then you have all the other info for your car, also.

Charlie why do you feel it's a waste of money? I have one and I"ve had for a few yrs. and unless they've changed them most of it's pages are a direct copy of the factory serv. manual transmission section, and even covers a few things about transmissions the factory serv. manual doesn't. I agree a factory service manual is better since it has all area's of the car covered but sometimes their hard to find and pretty expensive but if you can find one and the price is ok it is worth it.

 

[fishy68]

Mopar King when you go to install the trans. the torque converter can slip out pretty easy if you tilt it forward very much. I made a small "holder bracket" out of some 1/16" by 1/2" wide flat bar bent into a zig zag and bolted to one of the lower bell housing bolts so that applies pressure against the torque converter to keep it in place.

 

[william]

John Cope can set you up with any parts needed if you looking to rebuild the old one.

http://coperacingtrans.com/

 

[Charrlie_S]

Charlie why do you feel it's a waste of money? I have one and I"ve had for a few yrs. and unless they've changed them most of it's pages are a direct copy of the factory serv. manual transmission section, and even covers a few things about transmissions the factory serv. manual doesn't. I agree a factory service manual is better since it has all area's of the car covered but sometimes their hard to find and pretty expensive but if you can find one and the price is ok it is worth it.

To me it seems more like a "supliment". It is only77 pages, and it does not have a lot of info as what is different between years. I have an old Chilton trans manual, that covers 1974- 1980, and the torqueflite section is 156 pages, and tells you the changes in the different years and what parts will and will not interchange.

 

[TrailBeast]

I made a small "holder bracket" out of some 1/16" by 1/2" wide flat bar bent into a zig zag and bolted to one of the lower bell housing bolts so that applies pressure against the torque converter to keep it in place.

1/2 inch box or combo wrench and a nut and bolt.
with the wrench bolted to the bellhousing angled in towards the converter.

 

[fishy68]

1/2 inch box or combo wrench and a nut and bolt.
with the wrench bolted to the bellhousing angled in towards the converter.

Yeah that'd probably do it too.

 

[Mopar King]

Ok my father and I have removed the old transmission from the car 2 days ago since the weather was ok. now my father got the spare 904 transmission out and was cleaning it abit today. he went to remove the pan off and replace the filter but found a round metal piece on the pans floor. we both looked around the open transmission but found nothing broken but that piece has us worried about the condition of the transmission. we both don't want to remove the transmission and disconnect everything again, so we stop everything until we know where that metal piece came from. the metal piece is not a magnet. can you guys tell me if you know this piece and will it affect the transmission running daily?


I forgot to mention that the car has headers and had to loosen the front header to get to a bolt or two.

 

[fishy68]

I can't think of anything that looks like that in a torqueflite. I know you said it isn't a magnet but that my only guess is it is a broken magnet. You can verify that by holding it next to metal and see if it's magnetized. If it's not magnetic I'm not sure.