Any gains adding 1.6 rockers to stock 273?
- Thread starter BPTracing
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BPTracing
Well-Known Member
Mr. George, the car is CURRENTLY a stock 2bbl 273. But not for long!
just to clarify, I am not wanting to make a hot rod out of it. I recently bought the car and LOVE driving it regularly! I am still in the process of figuring out want I actually have, and what I can do to make it a little "peppier"for daily driving. I know it has the aftermarket electronic distributor, and it has a dual exhaust. Also there is currently the stock 7-1/4 rear end, which I assume has 2.94 gear. There are 85000 miles on the odometer. It looks like the car was somewhat restored in the 90's. The paint on the motor (top and bottom) looks too good to be original, but it definitely did not get a performance rebuild.
The story I have is that the building it was stored in was damaged in 2005 by hurricane Katrina. I can only assume by the condition of the paint and rear upholstery, it was stored outdoors and not driven for many many years.
I am actively looking for a new rear-end, as the pinion bearing has excessive play. I think I have a line on a 3.55 8-3/4. I also have a front disk brake conversion kit for it. I will be changing to a 4.5 bolt pattern and 15" wheels. I don't have experience with the 273. I have had multiple big blocks in my many years. I have a 70 GTX 440 numbers matching car for performance and to show off, but I
the Dart as a regular driver!
I really love this forum for the insights and information!
just to clarify, I am not wanting to make a hot rod out of it. I recently bought the car and LOVE driving it regularly! I am still in the process of figuring out want I actually have, and what I can do to make it a little "peppier"for daily driving. I know it has the aftermarket electronic distributor, and it has a dual exhaust. Also there is currently the stock 7-1/4 rear end, which I assume has 2.94 gear. There are 85000 miles on the odometer. It looks like the car was somewhat restored in the 90's. The paint on the motor (top and bottom) looks too good to be original, but it definitely did not get a performance rebuild.
The story I have is that the building it was stored in was damaged in 2005 by hurricane Katrina. I can only assume by the condition of the paint and rear upholstery, it was stored outdoors and not driven for many many years.
I am actively looking for a new rear-end, as the pinion bearing has excessive play. I think I have a line on a 3.55 8-3/4. I also have a front disk brake conversion kit for it. I will be changing to a 4.5 bolt pattern and 15" wheels. I don't have experience with the 273. I have had multiple big blocks in my many years. I have a 70 GTX 440 numbers matching car for performance and to show off, but I
the Dart as a regular driver!I really love this forum for the insights and information!
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BPTracing
Well-Known Member
And again, just to clear, I am a die-hard Mopar guy, and have experience in building fast big block cars, but never had a 273 til now. This thing won't get out of its own way! Lol
For the last 10 years I have been the crew chief on a 5 car NHRA drag race team (BBC dragsters - Danny Nelson Racecraft cars - running 6.10 at 230mph - 3.90 1/8) here in Raceland Louisiana. Before that I spent 5 years in Illinois/Indiana as an NHRA Tech guy and 2 years as a track announcer (IPR)
I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here, and I am just trying expand my small block knowledge!
For the last 10 years I have been the crew chief on a 5 car NHRA drag race team (BBC dragsters - Danny Nelson Racecraft cars - running 6.10 at 230mph - 3.90 1/8) here in Raceland Louisiana. Before that I spent 5 years in Illinois/Indiana as an NHRA Tech guy and 2 years as a track announcer (IPR)
I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here, and I am just trying expand my small block knowledge!
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Well aint that a sweetheart.Mr. George, the car is CURRENTLY a stock 2bbl 273. But not for long!
just to clarify, I am not wanting to make a hot rod out of it. I recently bought the car and LOVE driving it regularly! I am still in the process of figuring out want I actually have, and what I can do to make it a little "peppier"for daily driving. I know it has the aftermarket electronic distributor, and it has a dual exhaust. Also there is currently the stock 7-1/4 rear end, which I assume has 2.94 gear. There are 85000 miles on the odometer. It looks like the car was somewhat restored in the 90's. The paint on the motor (top and bottom) looks too good to be original, but it definitely did not get a performance rebuild.
The story I have is that the building it was stored in was damaged in 2005 by hurricane Katrina. I can only assume by the condition of the paint and rear upholstery, it was stored outdoors and not driven for many many years.
I am actively looking for a new rear-end, as the pinion bearing has excessive play. I think I have a line on a 3.55 8-3/4. I also have a front disk brake conversion kit for it. I will be changing to a 4.5 bolt pattern and 15" wheels. I don't have experience with the 273. I have had multiple big blocks in my many years. I have a 70 GTX 440 numbers matching car for performance and to show off, but I
I really love this forum for the insights and information!
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BPTracing
Well-Known Member
In my experience the best bang for the buck is usually putting
a stock 4 Brl. Carb and intake on a 2 Brl. equipped engine given
the engine is in good shape.
a stock 4 Brl. Carb and intake on a 2 Brl. equipped engine given
the engine is in good shape.
and those rocker arms.
Cool looking cars.
You can either listen to us or go buy some rocker arms. But just know it won't make any difference.
Stock stamped or iron rockers that came with these engines are more capable than many people think.
Also if you're seriously thinking about more extensive mods long term, I wouldn't waste time with cheapo rocker arms. Plenty of places to go cheap and be alright. Valvetrain isn't one of them.
You can either listen to us or go buy some rocker arms. But just know it won't make any difference.
Stock stamped or iron rockers that came with these engines are more capable than many people think.
Also if you're seriously thinking about more extensive mods long term, I wouldn't waste time with cheapo rocker arms. Plenty of places to go cheap and be alright. Valvetrain isn't one of them.
More cubes would be the easiest way to make it peppier for daily driving.
The discussion is rocker arms but aint it fun to discuss it all.
I think there is a little bit to be had by going to 1:6 rocker arms. Yes, it may have to have clearance. Above and beyond the ratio,
Ok then why the heck did you even come and ask? You've got your mind already made up. When you spend 300 bucks and there's not one single detectible change, I'm sure you'll come on here bragging about how it has 500HP. We're just trying to save you 300 bucks for basically nothing. Go for it. You've made your mind up.
Maybe, but nothing he'll ever notice. "MAYBE" on a dyno. Maybe "NOT".
That is, IF the pushrod angle is optimal. Small block Mopar pushrod angle is anything BUT optimal. As a general rule, you lose about .020" of total lift regarding the terrible pushrod angle.
Getting kind of late
The way I see it, the 1:6 ratio helps that. AND the ball to cup conversion on the adjuster.
Maybe. I think it's one of those things you just won't know until mock up. But, in the end, IMO it adds nothing at the rear tires, so what's the point? He could basically tight lash his factory solid lifter cam and almost mimic the results. But hey, what is it they say? "Not my monkeys, not my circus"
If you lose 10 pounds on the car or yourself you'll equate to the same gain you'll get for spending $300 and then having to deal with correcting the valvetrain geometry.
Just use the KISS Method and save your money for better improvements down the road.
Tom
Just use the KISS Method and save your money for better improvements down the road.
Tom
junkyardhero
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you've obviously got the zoom-zoom when you wanna party, so if you're not looking for anything crazy just keep it 2bbl and swap in any number of low key summit or melling "repop" cams.
a nice little boost of power while retaining great road manners, you don't have to dink around with anything-- trans kick down, carb linkage, etx-- it's a straight R&R job.
you've already got the magic with the factory adjustable rockers, no need to over think that. and best of all, it's not an absolute ton of cash to make it happen.
a nice little boost of power while retaining great road manners, you don't have to dink around with anything-- trans kick down, carb linkage, etx-- it's a straight R&R job.
you've already got the magic with the factory adjustable rockers, no need to over think that. and best of all, it's not an absolute ton of cash to make it happen.
BPTracing
Well-Known Member
Mr. Rusty. At NO TIME did I ever say I had my mind made up or that I wasn't listening to the advise here. All I am doing is asking questions to gain knowledge.
From the responses here, I have learned the 1.6 rockers will likely NOT be a quick bolt on improvement. I would not have known that if I didn't ask, which I believe was the whole point of the original post.
Sorry you feel I came on to brag about anything, that was not at all the purpose of my posts. I do feel that few posters were assuming I knew nothing about motors/performance in general, so I clarified.
So now that I have been better educated, I believe my plan of attack will be to proceed with the install of the 4bbl intake as I originally planned, keep the stock cam and rockers for now.
Since I also plan on upgrading the rear end, I will hold off on additional engine modifications until I can determine the effect of the improved gearing. Likely 3.55 instead of the 2.94.
Merry Christmas everyone!
From the responses here, I have learned the 1.6 rockers will likely NOT be a quick bolt on improvement. I would not have known that if I didn't ask, which I believe was the whole point of the original post.
Sorry you feel I came on to brag about anything, that was not at all the purpose of my posts. I do feel that few posters were assuming I knew nothing about motors/performance in general, so I clarified.
So now that I have been better educated, I believe my plan of attack will be to proceed with the install of the 4bbl intake as I originally planned, keep the stock cam and rockers for now.
Since I also plan on upgrading the rear end, I will hold off on additional engine modifications until I can determine the effect of the improved gearing. Likely 3.55 instead of the 2.94.
Merry Christmas everyone!
BPTracing
Well-Known Member
You are correct! And I do have a 70 383 core in the back corner of the garage...but that opens multiple cans of worms I am not currently ready to deal with on this project! LoL
It's possible it loses power
Best possible bang for the buck would be to pull the 273 and install a junkyard magnum 5.9, with one of the eBay air gap manifolds and a set of summit headers.
We put a four barrel and dual exhaust on my Mom's 64 Barracuda, 273/904/2.94 gears. Definitely perked it up, but it still could barely outrun my friend's 66 Coronet with stock 318 poly - and that's with a significant weight advantage. So, one race between one pair of cars is not be all and end all evidence, but it did make me think a four barrel 273 with two barrel cam had no more peak power than a stock 318 two barrel (maybe less), and the 318 would be stronger everywhere else. So, swapping the stock 273 for a stock 318 (wedge) would be super easy and make it noticeably peppier for daily driving without making it a lumpy-cammed temperamental hot rod.
I didn't think you were braggin. Brag all you want. lol All I am trying to get across is, you're lookin at a BIG expenditure for a SMALL gain and possibly NO gain. Hell, if you're dyin to spend 300 bucks and want a BIG bang fot the buck, put a little more with it and get a 150HP Nitrous plate shot.
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