Aspen Disc Brakes

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SassyGrassScamp

SassyGrassScamp

My Addiction Has Begun
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I posted this in the brakes forum and apologize for the dual posts, but I need and answer quick or the car I'm looking at will be scrapped:
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I found a 1976 Dodge Aspen Wagon at a local scrap yard and it has front discs....Will the set-up fit on my '71 Scamp?

The car is going to be scrapped within a few days, so I need to find out soon....Thanks in advance for any help!
 
YES but you will need the upper a arms from a newer A body with the big ball joint. Take the spindles rotors and calipers & caliper brackets the master cyl. and the prop valve off the Aspen and you will have 90% of what you need.
 
swingn340 said:
YES but you will need the upper a arms from a newer A body with the big ball joint. Take the spindles rotors and calipers & caliper brackets the master cyl. and the prop valve off the Aspen and you will have 90% of what you need.
Click to expand...

WOOOOHOOOO....Thanks Swingn!

Will the a arms work from my Scamp?
 
Ive been told you can but it will take some work. you have to change the size of the hole for the later model (big) ball joint. Im going to try this in a week or two. I would still get the brakes off the Aspen. And i would get everything from the master cyl. to the prop valve (brake lines) so you wont have to make them. Dont mix power and non power master cyl. they wont interchange. If i can find the web site for the ball joint bushing ill post it.
 
WARNING

Yes, I have read and debated this issue on this forum before..most do not agree with me..if you don't want a dissenting opinion please do not read on..I have been called names for my opinion but the reason I do this is for safety...


My daughter drives this car a lot..it is actually in her name but she is 16 years old..For me, it came down to safety for me and my families life..I oped for tried and true..and safe..and I bought her disc brakes from a '74 dart.

These two articles convinced me to go the conventional way..


http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.p...7f9713f88b5931

Quote -
***** MUST READ !!!!!!!! DO NOT USE VALORE' OR ASPEN DISC BRAKE PARTS, THIS WILL CAUSE YOUR CAR TO HAVE WHAT IS CALLED "BUMP STEER"


http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

Quote- Do not succumb to the temptation to use "lookalike" knuckles from later Mopars, such as 73-up B/R-bodies, F/J/M bodies, etc. These parts, while visually very similar, are taller, altering suspension geometry (camber change, bump steer, etc.), and possibly forcing the ball joints beyond their designed range, a/k/a “over angling”.

I am still a newbie with american cars so I am still on the leaning curve....A couple of weeks ago I took some advise from a gent that has been modding cars probably before I was born...the advice felt wrong in my gut but because of the reputation of this guy I followed his advice and pushed my misgivings aside. Two days ago my daughter had an incident that if she had been on a highway doing the speed limit, we would probably be planning a funeral now...the incident happened a low speed and I was able to get the car home.

I have no desire to be called names. if you disagree with me than I respect your opinion..please just respect mine..

Grassy
 
If anyone is familiar with the beautiful surroundings where I live they will know there is a almost vertical/twisty climb for maybe a mile to a look off giving you spectacular view of the surrounding land and ocean. Couple of miles later there is a beach in Scotts bay.. I don't remember how long Sarah has been driving the Duster..I think it is @ 2 months..so she is still a newbie driver and she treats the Duster with proper care..anyway, coming back from swimming she blew a front tire..she could have been on that hill where you need good brakes and proper concentration...or on a highway doing 60 mph. This blow out was my fault.

Sarah had the wits to pull over quickly...there were two other girls in the car..and call me.

I grabbed an air pig and some wrenches ..I thought i could perhaps fix the tire with a can of leak fix and air but when I got there I slipped my hand around the tire..it was dark by then ..and promptly cut my hand on the belt that was sticking out. Thank goodness that I had checked the original spare this spring.

I sent the girls back with our Subaru and Calum and I used a shortcut so we didn't have to use the regular road...I was still concerned with the 36 year old spare.

Next day, we looked at the damage...the blown tire had esentially no tred on the inside..these tires were esentially new and the other tire was almost the same...so i took the car down to a great tire shop..two new tires and an alignment.

The advice I was given was that since I would be doing a complete overhaul of the suspension this summer that an alignment now was an expense that was a waste of money.

My kids life is worth more than an alignment and this has really shaken
me. I should have been checking her tires but it has been so busy here for the last couple of months..and I knew the tires were great.

I guess what I am try to say is that if any if your family will be going into you mopar..please be very careful and look at more than one source before you do a mod..

IAN
 
Run the Aspen/Volare spindles.

They work better in some areas of the range and worse in others in comparison to the A body stuff. Bill Reilly at Big Block Dart did a test of the two spindles.

I've run MANY A body cars with the FMJ spindles with no failures in some extreme duty, far worse than a normal street car would ever experience. Never had a failure and no bump steer issues.

Your needs one of the following:
for the current arms, a Ball Joint sleeve installed that Dr Diff produces, the upper threaded area cut out and install/weld a fresh BBJ diameter sleeve (stockcarproducts)

or

a set of 73-76 a body upper arms.
 
grassy said:
Next day, we looked at the damage...the blown tire had esentially no tred on the inside..these tires were esentially new and the other tire was almost the same...so i took the car down to a great tire shop..two new tires and an alignment.

The advice I was given was that since I would be doing a complete overhaul of the suspension this summer that an alignment now was an expense that was a waste of money.

My kids life is worth more than an alignment and this has really shaken
me. I should have been checking her tires but it has been so busy here for the last couple of months..and I knew the tires were great.

I guess what I am try to say is that if any if your family will be going into you mopar..please be very careful and look at more than one source before you do a mod..

IAN
Click to expand...




never mind, your comments have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP'S QUESTION.
 
So it was an alignment issue, and nothing to do with the brake swap?
Was an alignment done after the brake swap?
Why wasn't the suspension done when the brake swap was done?

I put a B=Body disk brake set up on the front of my Dart.
I have heard the Aspen/Volare will work just fine, as long as you get the correct upper control arms.
 
Because I am going to do a full poly front end kit , swaybars and disc brake conversion soon...but sometime this summer..I haven't bought the parts yet...this was relayed to the person that I refer to.

And Jimacuda question is correct..my recent experience only has coincidental relationship to the precise question sassygrassy asked even thought I did cite two references that are against this swap...however I am not sure how his comment helped this thread.

There seems to be a lot of controversy on this question...even after what, perhaps 30 years that the aspen/volare have been around ? I have read both sides of this issue because I had to make a decision. I wrote the other response because I believed what another person said..who has major old car credit.. that could ..not did..have been a fatal mistake..someone must be watching over us.

If the car is only going to be driven by you..ok..but the MOPAR in our family is really an family activity..so if your family is going to be in it..I would ere on the side of safety... that is why I asked about the green bearings in another thread on this board.

The reality of this question is that sassygrassy is going to have to make this decision himself and he should hear from both camps so he can make an informed decision....and I believe this is one of the many reasons that this fantastic board is for..

So today, I am picking up Sarah's car up..two new front tires and an alignment..once I do all the changes, it will go in for another..I am still thanking the stars that the outcome of my decision didn't result into an different scenario.

IAN
 
It's not a can of worms at all. Both set up work fine

Sorry Grassy... both those sources you quote basically have NOTHING in the way of data to back them up other than a reference to the spindle height. One I'm guessing pulled the BS from the other, you choose which. You don't want to be questioned or whatever you can't seem to take for posting something that starts with "WARNING". Get real! Maybe post the articles and leave the "Sarah Heartburn" BS alone. Your daughters situation had NOTHING to do with the spindles... PERIOD, yet you cry about the dangers of this swap.

You best not go to or be around a mopar show, because there are hundreds if not thousands of A body cars with the dangerous, in your opinion, taller spindles. Both articles have been proven wrong in practical use as well. Stay away from any hot rod because most don't have factory engineered stuff on them!

If you have only those sources to back up your position, maybe you need to bust out some scientific resources to get the real info. Let me give you a number: 3 degrees. If that 3/8" bothers you so much, shim the damn K frame 3/8" and get the ball joint spacing better.

Boo Hoo about the debate... basically you don't really have anything to provide other than the articles to base your opinion on. I gave you the BBD stuff and I guess another engineers opinion, fact based conclusion, isn't good enough for you. Unlike the two sources lacking in data you quote. Cry me a river.

I don't post much in here anymore, mostly because of BS like your post Grassy. However, I'll come back to kick the crap out of anything regarding this brake conversion... ESPECIALLY when info is tossed around by someone with ZERO, NADA, NO Experience with both set ups. Ask some of the autocross guys that use the FMJ spindles if they are dangerous/suspect... LMAO.

Nice that your daughter had the ability/sense to get stopped without incident. Unlike many these days, when a tire blows they stand on the brakes.
 
Jimacuda said:
never mind, your comments have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP'S QUESTION.
Click to expand...

Doesn't everyone have freedom of speech on this board?, there are always 2 opinions to every story/mod. everyone should have the freedom to express them unless its to degrade someone else, Grassys post might not of had any usefull info in it but theres probably at least 100 other topics on the board at the moment that have dozens of useless posts in them and no one says anything about them!
 
crackedback, to me you've hit the proverbial nail right on the head about the sources. I've said it in another thread, I'll say it again: Ehrenberg knows enough about liability, probably thanks to the mag's lawyers, to cover his *** with swaps. Hence one of the reasons he's always throwing on disclaimers about brake hose routing in swaps like this. The disclaimer is there to cover his, the mags, and the publisher's collective asses if something may possibly go wrong in one form or another.

Want more proof of this? I'm not sure of the exact date on the mag, but there was a letter to him from a reader about putting a 360 in a Wrangler. His response was to tell the reader he wouldn't even advise to do the swap because of the nature of putting a V8 into something that unstable. Really? How many V8 powered CJ's, YJ's, etc, have you seen out there? How many times have off road mags done builds like that or featured rides like that. Hell, didn't the factory build a 4.7L powered Renegade not too long ago?

Ehrenberg's advisement of not using the F,J,M set up for spurious reasons comes down to living in a litigious society and the real reason is CMA.
 
Crackedback,

I have no idea how to respond to you since last time all you could do was call me names and dump on the sources I provided..it must really be hard to be perfect..

I don't crawl where you live..and I hope none of your family is hurt in your mopars..
 
lets see...you did an A body to A body disc brake swap on your daughters car, cheaped out and didnt replace the bushings, ball joints, etc., or even get it aligned, she had an "incident" (big scary flat tire) and your blaming it on the F body spindle swap...you didnt do?
Please explain to me how this has anything to do with the subject in question?
 
Like Crackedback stated... more than spindle swap induced blowout .... I could see the spindle/control arm/brake install .... causing premature tire wear/failure .. IF alignment was not performed after mod...
 
The point of my postings was not a direct response to a failure of a spindle breaking or whatnot. I should have explained my posts reasoning better..and I promise I will never do this again. I obviously as not clear.

My post was to illustrate not to take the first piece of advice that you receive. I did, with consequences, because I believed the gent that advised me. It felt wrong to me but I felt that with all the years in old cars that he knew far more than me. I should have posted that question on this board to get a second opinion.

When contemplating a change to your MOPAR, ...especially one that could have major consequences..ask as many question until you feel that you can make a comfortable decision.

I should have connected the dots better but I was a bit rattled.

Next time , I will know better to keep my yap shut or to do a better job of explaining myself.

Again, I apologize for the confusion caused by my posts in this thread.

Grassy
 
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