Bast cooling electric fan

[Goldust1971]

Looking for a cooling fan that will work with my car, 1971 duster 408 484 cam headers, 750 Holly, M1 intake, stock heads, 10 five compression, 410 gears, four speed factory 340 radiator. I have one pushing and pulling need better.

 

[Bodyperson]

Looking for a cooling fan that will work with my car, 1971 duster 408 484 cam headers, 750 Holly, M1 intake, stock heads, 10 five compression, 410 gears, four speed factory 340 radiator. I have one pushing and pulling need better.

Man one pushing and one pulling is really plugging that radiator air flow. Id look into getting rid of the pusher at least.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Mopar Performance Viscous Fan Package. Belt driven bowl of badassary.

 

[junkyardhero]

sounds like you're trying to treat the symptom and not the cause.

what's the rest of the cooling system set up?

 

[72bluNblu]

If you're going to run a stand alone electric fan you're going to need a minimum of ~3,000 cfm from the fan. There are really expensive fans out there that only flow half that.

Using a pusher and a puller at the same time is extremely inefficient. You're blocking a ton of free air flow. Above 25mph in the majority of situations you shouldn't need a fan at all, the air coming in through the radiator should be more than enough. The fan should only be necessary at slow speeds and idle.

What was the car doing (or not doing) that led to that set up? When does it run hot? When does it run cool?

And for the record, if it's running at 200° or less, it's not running hot.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Throw it all away. You want a stock-type 7-blade clutch fan and a shroud.

 

[supertruck]

Dual electric fan from the old Ford Contour with a Dakota Digital controller. 72Blunblu recommended it to me and it works flawlessly in my built 340.

 

[RustyRatRod]

sounds like you're trying to treat the symptom and not the cause.

what's the rest of the cooling system set up?

I don't disagree with that. But you get tired of recommending the same CORRECT fixes over and over and over and over and over AGAIN and it falls on deaf ears. So I just throw somethin out there now. My junk doesn't over heat.

 

[junkyardhero]

I don't disagree with that. But you get tired of recommending the same CORRECT fixes over and over and over and over and over AGAIN and it falls on deaf ears. So I just throw somethin out there now. My junk doesn't over heat.

of course not! slants don't make enough power to realize any serious heat!

*ducks*

 

[RustyRatRod]

of course not! slants don't make enough power to realize any serious heat!

*ducks*

muh huh.

 

[harrisonm]

Mopar Performance Viscous Fan Package. Belt driven bowl of badassary.

Agreed. I am not a fan of trying to fix old Mopar cooling problems with electric fans.

Throw it all away. You want a stock-type 7-blade clutch fan and a shroud.

Absolutely 100% Totally agree. I spent a lot of money several years ago chasing the electric fan thing. I eventually went with stock Mopar cooling stuff. It worked 50 years ago, and it still does.

 

[72bluNblu]

Agreed. I am not a fan of trying to fix old Mopar cooling problems with electric fans.

Absolutely 100% Totally agree. I spent a lot of money several years ago chasing the electric fan thing. I eventually went with stock Mopar cooling stuff. It worked 50 years ago, and it still does.

Sure, the original “Mopar cooling stuff” works great for a lot of applications.

Of course they also make millions of cars every year with electric fans. And a lot those cars make more horsepower and go a hell of a lot more miles than the old Mopar stuff did. You just have to put together a system that meets the requirements of your application, and that can be harder than just spending a bunch of money.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Sure, the original “Mopar cooling stuff” works great for a lot of applications.

Of course they also make millions of cars every year with electric fans. And a lot those cars make more horsepower and go a hell of a lot more miles than the old Mopar stuff did. You just have to put together a system that meets the requirements of your application, and that can be harder than just spending a bunch of money.

People have a strange desire to try reinventing the wheel. I'm a 7X Long Hauler on the Power Tour...and have found that the fancier the cooling system looks, the hotter the car usually runs. Three electric fans and a $1200 custom radiator? He's the guy with the hood open 4" and the heater blasting in 90-degree temperatures to not boil over in traffic.

Car manufacturers will happily spend $10+ million on cooling system R&D to eliminate a clutch fan for an extra 0.1MPG (or to save $1 on each car built) in the EPA tests. Most people have neither the money nor the desire to put that level of effort into it.

I wish I remember who said it, but one thing that has served me well with cooling systems: the factory engineers knew what they were doing. Start there.

 

[harrisonm]

You just have to put together a system that meets the requirements of your application, and that can be harder than just spending a bunch of money.

Very true. Unfortunately, who is going to help you put that system together for your car? A lot of people are more eager to sell you a system that will bring them in a nice high profit margin than a system that will really work well. That is what happened to me. I bought a Griffin Aluminum radiator with their custom-made shroud and electric fan system. Guaranteed to handle 600 HP. It didn't. I tried everything, but I wound up trashing everything except the radiator. The radiator itself worked pretty well when paired with a factory fan shroud, fan blade, etc.

 

[72bluNblu]

People have a strange desire to try reinventing the wheel. I'm a 7X Long Hauler on the Power Tour...and have found that the fancier the cooling system looks, the hotter the car usually runs. Three electric fans and a $1200 custom radiator? He's the guy with the hood open 4" and the heater blasting in 90-degree temperatures to not boil over in traffic.

Car manufacturers will happily spend $10+ million on cooling system R&D to eliminate a clutch fan for an extra 0.1MPG (or to save $1 on each car built) in the EPA tests. Most people have neither the money nor the desire to put that level of effort into it.

I wish I remember who said it, but one thing that has served me well with cooling systems: the factory engineers knew what they were doing. Start there.

So the factory engineers that came up with the Ford Contour set up I run don't know what they're doing, but the factory engineers that put a fixed blade fan behind a 19" radiator for a /6 did?

I didn't "reinvent the wheel" putting an OEM Ford electric fan system on my Duster. I found an OEM electric fan that was roughly the right size for my radiator core and met the ballpark CFM requirements for my engine and used a decent fan controller to replace the ECU that originally controlled that fan system. It's harder than just slapping something on there but if you take a few steps to make sure you do it well it's not like it's all that difficult. And at this point there's literally a set of instructions and a parts list on how to do exactly that set up, so you can pick the parts out of the catalog just like buying the OE Mopar stuff.

Just admit you don't like electric fans. That's fine, don't run them on your car. No need to make up BS about them, like anything if you set it up right they work just fine. And if you don't, they won't. Not the fault of the electric fan.

Very true. Unfortunately, who is going to help you put that system together for your car? A lot of people are more eager to sell you a system that will bring them in a nice high profit margin than a system that will really work well. That is what happened to me. I bought a Griffin Aluminum radiator with their custom-made shroud and electric fan system. Guaranteed to handle 600 HP. It didn't. I tried everything, but I wound up trashing everything except the radiator. The radiator itself worked pretty well when paired with a factory fan shroud, fan blade, etc.

Yes, I recall that Griffin set up, their “exact fit” electric fan combination only flows ~1730 CFM. So probably about 1k CFM short of the bare minimum for a stand alone fan on one of these cars, and almost half of the low speed output on the ~$150 Ford Contour fans I run.

It's a shame that a major name like Griffin markets that set up, but it's also not that hard to go online and find that the people that are successfully running electric fans on these cars have fans that pull more like 3k CFM. Blindly buying the expensive set up in the catalog doesn't always work, that's true for a great many things.

 

[RustyRatRod]

So the factory engineers that came up with the Ford Contour set up I run don't know what they're doing, but the factory engineers that put a fixed blade fan behind a 19" radiator for a /6 did?

I didn't "reinvent the wheel" putting an OEM Ford electric fan system on my Duster. I found an OEM electric fan that was roughly the right size for my radiator core and met the ballpark CFM requirements for my engine and used a decent fan controller to replace the ECU that originally controlled that fan system. It's harder than just slapping something on there but if you take a few steps to make sure you do it well it's not like it's all that difficult. And at this point there's literally a set of instructions and a parts list on how to do exactly that set up, so you can pick the parts out of the catalog just like buying the OE Mopar stuff.

Just admit you don't like electric fans. That's fine, don't run them on your car. No need to make up BS about them, like anything if you set it up right they work just fine. And if you don't, they won't. Not the fault of the electric fan.



Yes, I recall that Griffin set up, their “exact fit” electric fan combination only flows ~1730 CFM. So probably about 1k CFM short of the bare minimum for a stand alone fan on one of these cars, and almost half of the low speed output on the ~$150 Ford Contour fans I run.

It's a shame that a major name like Griffin markets that set up, but it's also not that hard to go online and find that the people that are successfully running electric fans on these cars have fans that pull more like 3k CFM. Blindly buying the expensive set up in the catalog doesn't always work, that's true for a great many things.

Them Ford fans just flat out work. Lots of people use them. I'll tell you something else that's popular too. Remember the Volkswagen Sirocco? Lots of drag racers use those radiators and fans because they cool good and move some air. Just cause something ain't Mopar, doesn't mean it won't work. You know me. I'm a huge fan (pun intended) of the Mopar clutch fans, but I'm a bigger fan (another pun) of whatever works!

 

[Jarlaxle]

So the factory engineers that came up with the Ford Contour set up I run don't know what they're doing, but the factory engineers that put a fixed blade fan behind a 19" radiator for a /6 did?

No. I'm saying that because a fan cools an engine a third the size doesn't mean it will keep a big-block Duster cool. Because it cools a 130hp 2 litre engine, that doesn't mean it will keep a 408ci stroker in a Dart with A/C cool in Texas.

I didn't "reinvent the wheel" putting an OEM Ford electric fan system on my Duster. I found an OEM electric fan that was roughly the right size for my radiator core and met the ballpark CFM requirements for my engine and used a decent fan controller to replace the ECU that originally controlled that fan system. It's harder than just slapping something on there but if you take a few steps to make sure you do it well it's not like it's all that difficult. And at this point there's literally a set of instructions and a parts list on how to do exactly that set up, so you can pick the parts out of the catalog just like buying the OE Mopar stuff.

Hopefully, the fans are good and not Chinesium. Of course...a stock clutch fan is cheaper and easier.

Just admit you don't like electric fans. That's fine, don't run them on your car. No need to make up BS about them, like anything if you set it up right they work just fine. And if you don't, they won't. Not the fault of the electric fan.

I don't dislike electric fans, I simply understand that in many cases, they're just not the right tool for the job. I understand that many make more noise than airflow, are a hindrance on the highway, and draw lots of power. I also understand that I was sitting in traffic in 90-degree heat and never saw the high side of 190 on the gauge with nothing more than a V8 Aspen fan and a Hayden clutch! Yet again: I have found that the fancier the cooling system looks, the hotter the car usually runs.

Yes, I recall that Griffin set up, their “exact fit” electric fan combination only flows ~1730 CFM. So probably about 1k CFM short of the bare minimum for a stand alone fan on one of these cars, and almost half of the low speed output on the ~$150 Ford Contour fans I run.

It's a shame that a major name like Griffin markets that set up, but it's also not that hard to go online and find that the people that are successfully running electric fans on these cars have fans that pull more like 3k CFM. Blindly buying the expensive set up in the catalog doesn't always work, that's true for a great many things.

But people do it. They don't realize that those move probably HALF the air my clutch fan pulls.

 

[72bluNblu]

No. I'm saying that because a fan cools an engine a third the size doesn't mean it will keep a big-block Duster cool. Because it cools a 130hp 2 litre engine, that doesn't mean it will keep a 408ci stroker in a Dart with A/C cool in Texas.

Swing and a miss.

Does your engine put out the factory spec HP? If not, why would you think the factory cooling system would work? Wasn’t designed for it now was it?

Or how about, what was different between the cooling system of a 340 A-body and a 440 A-body? Same radiator core size for most options. Same exact fan. Same water pump vane count and diameter for the same options (ac vs non). Same pulley ratio for non-ac, very similar ratio for AC.

100 extra cubes and 100 HP more, same cooling system specs. It’s almost like there’s more to it than that.

Hopefully, the fans are good and not Chinesium. Of course...a stock clutch fan is cheaper and easier.

They’ve been on a car over a decade with no hiccups over nearly 50k miles so far.

I don't dislike electric fans, I simply understand that in many cases, they're just not the right tool for the job. I understand that many make more noise than airflow, are a hindrance on the highway, and draw lots of power. I also understand that I was sitting in traffic in 90-degree heat and never saw the high side of 190 on the gauge with nothing more than a V8 Aspen fan and a Hayden clutch! Yet again: I have found that the fancier the cooling system looks, the hotter the car usually runs.

Not the right tool for the job? So, um, what do all the high horsepower modern cars run? You know, the factory 600 hp+ cars that will run 200k miles? They all run mechanical fans? No. None of them do.

I’ve run my car in stop and go traffic in 110°+ weather, it was the only time the high speed setting has ever kicked on with my fans. Held the programmed temperature and kicked down to low speed after a minute.

But people do it. They don't realize that those move probably HALF the air my clutch fan pulls.

Sure, people that don’t have a clue what they need buy all kinds of stuff.

Just because Griffin markets an inadequate electric fan set up and people buy it doesn’t mean there aren’t electric fans out there that are more than capable of doing the job.

What is the rating on your clutch fan at idle RPM? What is its rating at 5,000 rpm? How much HP is it stealing at 60 mph when you don’t need it spinning at all?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Swing and a miss.

Does your engine put out the factory spec HP? If not, why would you think the factory cooling system would work? Wasn’t designed for it now was it?

Or how about, what was different between the cooling system of a 340 A-body and a 440 A-body? Same radiator core size for most options. Same exact fan. Same water pump vane count and diameter for the same options (ac vs non). Same pulley ratio for non-ac, very similar ratio for AC.

100 extra cubes and 100 HP more, same cooling system specs. It’s almost like there’s more to it than that.



They’ve been on a car over a decade with no hiccups over nearly 50k miles so far.



Not the right tool for the job? So, um, what do all the high horsepower modern cars run? You know, the factory 600 hp+ cars that will run 200k miles? They all run mechanical fans? No. None of them do.

I’ve run my car in stop and go traffic in 110°+ weather, it was the only time the high speed setting has ever kicked on with my fans. Held the programmed temperature and kicked down to low speed after a minute.


Sure, people that don’t have a clue what they need buy all kinds of stuff.

Just because Griffin markets an inadequate electric fan set up and people buy it doesn’t mean there aren’t electric fans out there that are more than capable of doing the job.

What is the rating on your clutch fan at idle RPM? What is its rating at 5,000 rpm? How much HP is it stealing at 60 mph when you don’t need it spinning at all?

Yeah, we JUST had a guy askin all about what radiator and cooling fan to get. We all chimed in with different, but good recommendations. He was bent on an electric fan. That's fine. More than two people (you and I were two) HAMMERED on 4000 CFM. What's he do? 2800 CFM fan and a shroud that blocks an easy 30% of the radiator's air flow. People WILL NOT listen no matter what.

 

[72bluNblu]

Yeah, we JUST had a guy askin all about what radiator and cooling fan to get. We all chimed in with different, but good recommendations. He was bent on an electric fan. That's fine. More than two people (you and I were two) HAMMERED on 4000 CFM. What's he do? 2800 CFM fan and a shroud that blocks an easy 30% of the radiator's air flow. People WILL NOT listen no matter what.

Right? I mean realistically a 3,000 CFM system should work for the majority of folks in most locations with the way these cars get used. Other than testing, the high speed on my fans has come on all of once or twice, and most folks won't be idling in traffic when it's 110°+out like I was when that happened. I mean, I didn't want to be but it happens with how and where I use my car. Hell most places you'd never have to worry about it. So the ~5k CFM capability of my system pretty much never gets used. It's nice to know it's there though, I don't have to think about what happens if I get stuck in traffic when it's ungodly hot outside or have to park my car in certain conditions.

I think some folks just get caught up on wanting a certain thing or a certain brand, something that looks cool or whatever. I mean, I've been guilty of that a few times myself, buying something I thought "was cool" that turned out to be all hype.

But now I typically care very little about any of that. I don't care if the thing that functions the best is the cheapest no name thing out there or the most expensive brand name thing out there, I just want it to work the best. And yeah, I have a cheap chinese radiator, $150 reproduction OEM Ford Contour fans and a good fan controller and that seems to work better than some really expensive brand name stuff (looking at you Griffin) that costs 3x or more what I have into mine.

And yeah, if the stock fan and a good fan clutch and a shroud work for you that's fine too. The original systems were actually pretty robust, and for a lot of applications that's just fine. I like the efficiency of the electric fans and my car will maintain whatever operating temp window I put in my controller, which makes tuning the thing easier because it's always running the same temperature. And since I commute through 3,500 ft of elevation change and a pretty extreme ambient temperature swing having the engine operating temp under tight control is one less variable to deal with.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Right? I mean realistically a 3,000 CFM system should work for the majority of folks in most locations with the way these cars get used. Other than testing, the high speed on my fans has come on all of once or twice, and most folks won't be idling in traffic when it's 110°+out like I was when that happened. I mean, I didn't want to be but it happens with how and where I use my car. Hell most places you'd never have to worry about it. So the ~5k CFM capability of my system pretty much never gets used. It's nice to know it's there though, I don't have to think about what happens if I get stuck in traffic when it's ungodly hot outside or have to park my car in certain conditions.

I think some folks just get caught up on wanting a certain thing or a certain brand, something that looks cool or whatever. I mean, I've been guilty of that a few times myself, buying something I thought "was cool" that turned out to be all hype.

But now I typically care very little about any of that. I don't care if the thing that functions the best is the cheapest no name thing out there or the most expensive brand name thing out there, I just want it to work the best. And yeah, I have a cheap chinese radiator, $150 reproduction OEM Ford Contour fans and a good fan controller and that seems to work better than some really expensive brand name stuff (looking at you Griffin) that costs 3x or more what I have into mine.

And yeah, if the stock fan and a good fan clutch and a shroud work for you that's fine too. The original systems were actually pretty robust, and for a lot of applications that's just fine. I like the efficiency of the electric fans and my car will maintain whatever operating temp window I put in my controller, which makes tuning the thing easier because it's always running the same temperature. And since I commute through 3,500 ft of elevation change and a pretty extreme ambient temperature swing having the engine operating temp under tight control is one less variable to deal with.

I think it's people wanting "plug and play" everything and want no part of putting any effort whatsoever into any fab work or custom work of any kind. Laziness.

Then they get sucked into some vendor saying "we have this that'll work", when all they have is some shiny trinket packaged as cheaply for them as possible to maximize their profit.

This is the same reason I always recommend against kits for things. Unless it's a known HONEST company like...wait for it...you know what's comin...BERGMAN AUTOCRAFT, I wouldn't trust crap for a kit. Peter on the other hand, is a different breed. Tell him what you want and he won't cut corners. May cost more, you may need to do a little custom work, but look what the end result will be.

Like I keep saying over and over, everybody wants it cheap, they want it now and all on a silver platter.

 

[goldduster318]

No. I'm saying that because a fan cools an engine a third the size doesn't mean it will keep a big-block Duster cool. Because it cools a 130hp 2 litre engine, that doesn't mean it will keep a 408ci stroker in a Dart with A/C cool in Texas.



Hopefully, the fans are good and not Chinesium. Of course...a stock clutch fan is cheaper and easier.



I don't dislike electric fans, I simply understand that in many cases, they're just not the right tool for the job. I understand that many make more noise than airflow, are a hindrance on the highway, and draw lots of power. I also understand that I was sitting in traffic in 90-degree heat and never saw the high side of 190 on the gauge with nothing more than a V8 Aspen fan and a Hayden clutch! Yet again: I have found that the fancier the cooling system looks, the hotter the car usually runs.



But people do it. They don't realize that those move probably HALF the air my clutch fan pulls.

If you looked at a Ford Contour 2.5 V6 -> you'd see why this is a VERY high performance fan. It has a 1 row radiator and the back of one of the motors is extremely close to an exhaust manifold. You also have virtually no grill opening. The thing had to cool the interior on death valley on the hottest day along with keeping that engine cool.

I got my set at the junkyard, it was made in 1999, the low speed resistor was bad so even buying a new one and the wiring it was like $75.

I used my A/C at the Woodward Dream Cruise this year, 89 deg, humid, and you don't move at all, maybe you get to 10 mph once and a while. You can keep it right on the thermostat temp, I use it on the high speed with the A/C, but otherwise the low speed works the rest of the time and its usually cyling on and off at stops or low speeds. Its not even allowed to be on above 40 mph and the car stays totally cool. Of course with this you get MAXIMUM fan performance at idle where the mechanical fan varies with engine speed. The shroud is also not restrictive on the highway.

Honestly I never even hear them being on other than when they wind down if the car is keyed off. You can, however, feel the air coming out of the hood with the windows down and the fans on if you stick your hand out the window. It moves huge amounts of air.

If you care about HP this is the easiest HP you will ever gain. In some cases it would be worth almost 30 hp.

I know there are people on here that have these on big blocks.

A really core thing to know -> if the car stays cool while you're moving then you look at the fan performance. If it overheats while moving the radiator is too small or the ignition timing is off.