Best explanation I've seen so far for Hemi cam/lifter failures

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MopaR&D said:
So the Reignited Cycle and Auto guy on YT did a test on a high-mileage 5.7L where he installed a HV Hellcat oil pump and it bumped the hot idle oil pressure up from something like 10-15 psi to 25+. He reasons that should help with lifter failure due to extended idling.

I still haven't gotten around to doing anything with my 2014 5.7L with failed cam & lifter but when I do get lifters they'll most likely be aftermarket units like Hylift-Johnson. But then I intend to build that engine with a hot cam, valve springs, single-plane high-rise intake, long tube headers etc.

I imagine with a Hellcat oil pump and good replacement MDS lifters and cam it should go another 100k miles. But it has been a while since I looked into this stuff deeply and there's always new info and "fixes" coming to light.
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We are mostly GM here, and the LS motors are notorious for noisy lifters when cold. There is a company called Gaterman Products that make a lifter that actually allows installation at 1/2 turn preload. All the rest are supposed to be zero. Either way, I know most current motors dont even consider lash, but they make a great lifter. I asked them about their intentions to fix the 5.7 Hemi lifter issues and they said they are aware of it, and considering it. Just takes quite a bit of sales to justify new products. That is a name to look into if you eventually get to a build.
 
MopaR&D said:
So the Reignited Cycle and Auto guy on YT did a test on a high-mileage 5.7L where he installed a HV Hellcat oil pump and it bumped the hot idle oil pressure up from something like 10-15 psi to 25+. He reasons that should help with lifter failure due to extended idling.
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10-15psi at idle seems incredibly low. Even25 does?
Quick google search shows 25-65psi depending on temp and rpm. Must of been a real high mileage engine?

Mike
 
208Dart said:
10-15psi at idle seems incredibly low. Even25 does?
Quick google search shows 25-65psi depending on temp and rpm. Must of been a real high mileage engine?

Mike
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I don't remember for sure, been a while since I saw it but here's a link to the video:

Looks like from the thumbnail it actually went from around 20 to 40 psi.
 
I was searching on rock auto for the pump, seems that Melling makes the crank gear that you have to use with their high volume pump. Does not look like the splines extend, just the face to where the balancer squashes the crank gear.
I was just wondering if anyone just runs straight weight oil in these things. I mean 5 or 10w oil is the cold point when they are running and it goes to 30 or 40 when its hot and that is where they are losing oil pressure. Not an expert by any means, maybe straight 30 would just be bad all the time. My dads/now daughters subaru runs 0w-20. Would changing to that keep more flow to the lifters?
 
The bearing tolerance is quite tight. You might sacrifice a bearing with thick oil.
 
408 swinger said:
The bearing tolerance is quite tight. You might sacrifice a bearing with thick oil.
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it seems like the thick oil is the problem, the 0 5 or 10 is the cold weight when there is buku oil pressure, when the oil heats and gets to 30 or 40, the idle oil pressure drops to 15-20.
 
anotheridiot said:
Just been looking for information on this. Looking to purchase our next daily driver project, one needs a water pump, one needs the cam and lifters. My thought is if I am down to the water pump, take the time to do a chain and cam swap anyway since these have not been dealer addressed since they live past warranty. Looking at 1500 for cam and lifters or less than 400 to do the MDS delete lifters. Thinking the plugs are the smart thing to do regardless and 1000 to not have to tear it all apart again might make sense. Changing hard parts to non MDS means you can never go back.
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Since your down to the water pump, may as well do a cam swap ?? You realize the heads have to come off to remove lifters, right ?
 
65wgn440 said:
Since your down to the water pump, may as well do a cam swap ?? You realize the heads have to come off to remove lifters, right ?
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yes, I understand. But you have a truck with 150 plus that never got a lifter job, I highly doubt its going to be the one survivor.
 
Does the MDS delete require a new tune to avoid a CEL? Or does the ECM not see any feedback from the mds lifters at all?
My wife’s got a a ‘15 5.7 ram with only 65k on it. Wouldn’t mind getting ahead of the problem….

Mike
 
208Dart said:
Does the MDS delete require a new tune to avoid a CEL? Or does the ECM not see any feedback from the mds lifters at all?
My wife’s got a a ‘15 5.7 ram with only 65k on it. Wouldn’t mind getting ahead of the problem….

Mike
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That is my understanding, install plugs and change the ECN. I am sticking with the answer of the poster who has seen as many failures either way. The problem is that when you look at the good stuff, example, the melling kit or comp cams kit, they are MDS delete. All I can find are no names or enginetech as replacements now with MDS.
I think Melling has the answer with the high volume oil pump and manufacturing the crank gear with the spacer but have not seen a part number for MDS lifters from them.
 
If you install the plugs you HAVE to change lifters too. If you don't, you'll have a four cylinder that doesn't run for ****. You can leave well enough alone and only disable the MDS in the pcm. The lifters will still act as normal. The solenoids need to see signals to DE-activate.
 
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Just saw a guy on ebay selling the real Mopar Lifters made in Germany for 649, right under people selling lifters, cam, oil pump, timing chain set, full gasket set, water pump for between 396 and 738.

The interesting part is him saying that the MDS lifters are 2 solid roller lifters and 2 MDS lifters, so 2 are solid and 2 are hydraulic. That would be the MDS delete lifters are all Solid roller lifters.
 
Regarding oil pressure:
I just bought a 2013 Ram 1500 5.7/ZF8 yesterday with 136k on it. Previous owner bought it at 100k miles and in 15 months put 35k+ on it driving from Idaho to Montana a bunch, so mainly highway miles recently.
Engine at operating temp runs 36-37psi oil pressure and cruising on the highway runs 50+psi.
Also has very little idle hours.

It HAS the lifter tick…. Only at startup for about 30 seconds then it goes away. I’ll likely do a cam swap/MDs delete this summer on it sometime. I don’t think it’s an oil pressure issue….

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208Dart said:
Regarding oil pressure:
I just bought a 2013 Ram 1500 5.7/ZF8 yesterday with 136k on it. Previous owner bought it at 100k miles and in 15 months put 35k+ on it driving from Idaho to Montana a bunch, so mainly highway miles recently.
Engine at operating temp runs 36-37psi oil pressure and cruising on the highway runs 50+psi.
Also has very little idle hours.

It HAS the lifter tick…. Only at startup for about 30 seconds then it goes away. I’ll likely do a cam swap/MDs delete this summer on it sometime. I don’t think it’s an oil pressure issue….

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I think for it to tick for just the first 30 seconds shouldn't be an issue, I wouldn't be worried about that. If it continues ticking especially after it's warmed up then it's a problem. If you want to do a cam+lifter swap anyway that's fine but if it's only because you think a lobe/lifter is going away I'd give it some time and see if it gets worse. Even the owner's manual on the newer trucks says that ticking for the first 15-30 seconds on cold startup is normal.

Honestly I'd check the exhaust manifold bolts first, those like to break a lot and the exhaust leak will sound almost exactly the same as a lifter tick.

Ironracer said:
I know Exactly how to fix it...get one with a Cummings!
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And deal with either emissions control garbage and crap mileage for a diesel, or a 15-year-old truck that's falling apart because it's a Dodge? mmm I dunno... not to mention the way higher upfront cost. There are millions of 5.7 Hemis on the road, even if the failure rate is less than 1% that's still a shitload of failures simply by the overall volume. I dream of owning a Cummins but nothing about them is cheap.

I wonder how many old-timers back in the 70s talked trash about Chrysler engines with the nylon cam sprockets or horrible manufacturing tolerances/performance variation, and would prefer an old flathead inline-6 instead lmao.
 
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