Box and No Box

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Demonx2

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Will someone please define what a "Box" car is and what a "No Box" car is?

I assume they both have a transbrake but what makes one a Box and the other a No Box car? If the No Box supposedly does not have a delay box, how is that enforced???

Since I'm just an old-fashioned foot-brakin' 1/4 mile bracket racer, I see these other classes all the time but not quite sure exactly what they mean. Thx!!
 
Box car has a delay so the driver hits a button on the first bulb and the delay is built in to get a better reaction time. No box means your eyeball tells your foot when to go.
 
Box car has an electronic component a no box car doesn’t have.

In a box car, you are “ top bulb racing, “
you have an onboard computer( called a delay box) mounted, which has the primary function of “ delaying “ your car’s movement breaking the beam and proceeding down the track.

Once both cars are staged, you let go of your trans brake button upon seeing the first light come on. You have previously, prior to the run, dialed in X amount of delay. The delay you enter into the box is the time from when you let go of the button after seeing the top bulb, till the light turns green on the bottom.

By trial and error, you can ultimately judge pretty closely how much delay to “ roll into” the box from when you see the top light come on, add in your personal reaction time lag of letting go of the button, and green.
480 red, add a little delay, 530 green, take a little delay out, nighttime, usually take a little out compared to daytime.

So what happens is, you let go of that button upon seeing the top bulb come on…..the car just sits there without moving, until the delay runs out, then boom, car launches.

In short, it’s an electronic helper that should enable a typical driver to cut much more consistent and better lights
you are simply reacting to the first thing you see, then playing with the delay until you have figured out who you are regards reflexes. It’s very effective once you play around with it a while. Fiddle a bit, well, I am cutting 530/540 lights with this much delay programmed into the box, take some out, now I am 5 teens. Nice spot to be. Now, am I quicker first round than in time trials..I can allow for my tendencies…cool, eh!

No box, the delay box isnt used, and you are in “ analog mode”
you are letting go of the trans brake button or turning it lose off the foot based on where you think you can leave and not go red from the spot you work out to leave from.
That is obviously not as repeatable as a delay box, because you have no electronic correctability, and aren’t leaving off the first thing you see on the tree, like leaving on the top bulb is. More moving parts…..
Some guys cover the tree up to just allow the bottom bulb to be visible and react to that and adjust the car to work with wherever doing that lands them…air pressure, launch rpm, using adjustable trans brake button, etc, etc.. can all help you find a “ repeatable “ sweet spot.
No right or wrong way, just the best way for you to provide the most consistency.
Other factors come into play as well, that effect top or bottom racing. One big one is consistently staging the car the same way. Knowing how what you eat and drink may effect your reaction based on when you ate/ drank, etc.
Morning, noon, night, etc, etc may effect top or bottom reaction times.
It all comes down to knowing your personal liabilities/ positives and how they effect you at the starting line. Knowing them, and being able to adjust your game effectively to them, will make you dangerous

now, if only I could do 1/2 the stuff I mentioned above myself…..lol
 
Very well and accurately explained!!

At my age I have also to check my Blood Sugar
prior to the pass and adjust to it as well!
 
most of the bigger purses available at the big dollar events are top bulb.
So I guess I would say if you are super serious about making money drag racing, top bulb is where it’s at most of the time .for the biggest paydays.
from the original 50 grander that is still run every year, to the first million dollar race…….top bulb
 
I often Joke with my friends that you can make a $100,000 a year Drag Racing
if you are good enough and lucky.
BUT you will spend $200,000 a year to do so!
 
Box is for rich guys who want to go racing. No box is for drag racers.
Not so, I know many ordinary, working folks who run box. I also know a couple guys who footbrake in box and do very well.
 
Not so, I know many ordinary, working folks who run box. I also know a couple guys who footbrake in box and do very well.
I like to give box guys crap whenever I can. I did it for five years before going back to my Duster.
 
Box car has an electronic component a no box car doesn’t have.

In a box car, you are “ top bulb racing, “
you have an onboard computer( called a delay box) mounted, which has the primary function of “ delaying “ your car’s movement breaking the beam and proceeding down the track.

Once both cars are staged, you let go of your trans brake button upon seeing the first light come on. You have previously, prior to the run, dialed in X amount of delay. The delay you enter into the box is the time from when you let go of the button after seeing the top bulb, till the light turns green on the bottom.

By trial and error, you can ultimately judge pretty closely how much delay to “ roll into” the box from when you see the top light come on, add in your personal reaction time lag of letting go of the button, and green.
480 red, add a little delay, 530 green, take a little delay out, nighttime, usually take a little out compared to daytime.

So what happens is, you let go of that button upon seeing the top bulb come on…..the car just sits there without moving, until the delay runs out, then boom, car launches.

In short, it’s an electronic helper that should enable a typical driver to cut much more consistent and better lights
you are simply reacting to the first thing you see, then playing with the delay until you have figured out who you are regards reflexes. It’s very effective once you play around with it a while. Fiddle a bit, well, I am cutting 530/540 lights with this much delay programmed into the box, take some out, now I am 5 teens. Nice spot to be. Now, am I quicker first round than in time trials..I can allow for my tendencies…cool, eh!

No box, the delay box isnt used, and you are in “ analog mode”
you are letting go of the trans brake button or turning it lose off the foot based on where you think you can leave and not go red from the spot you work out to leave from.
That is obviously not as repeatable as a delay box, because you have no electronic correctability, and aren’t leaving off the first thing you see on the tree, like leaving on the top bulb is. More moving parts…..
Some guys cover the tree up to just allow the bottom bulb to be visible and react to that and adjust the car to work with wherever doing that lands them…air pressure, launch rpm, using adjustable trans brake button, etc, etc.. can all help you find a “ repeatable “ sweet spot.
No right or wrong way, just the best way for you to provide the most consistency.
Other factors come into play as well, that effect top or bottom racing. One big one is consistently staging the car the same way. Knowing how what you eat and drink may effect your reaction based on when you ate/ drank, etc.
Morning, noon, night, etc, etc may effect top or bottom reaction times.
It all comes down to knowing your personal liabilities/ positives and how they effect you at the starting line. Knowing them, and being able to adjust your game effectively to them, will make you dangerous

now, if only I could do 1/2 the stuff I mentioned above myself…..lol
Thx Don - you confirmed what I thought I knew. But in reality, a No Box car also uses a delay feature in the "button" itself. I have a friend with a Chevelle that has a tbrake and adjusts his mechanical button delay to dial in his reaction time. So essentially we have 2 classes that both run a button and can dial in a delay to get the reaction times very quick and consistent.

I'm just an old-school footbrake 1/4 mile racer. After all, that is what those before us created as the sport! And I'm certainly NOT in the sport to make $$....wrong sport for that. But I am in it for the thrill of competition and for me, that means timing both feet and getting the engine to launch consistently and the chassis to bite consistently and all the other things that come with launching a footbrake car. I'll be a happy camper so long as a track keeps the Sportsman class that runs the 1/4 mile without tbrakes allowed. (Of course, the track has to enforce those rules - which I've unfortunately run into several times where they did NOT!) I like it that the track near me has the Sportsman class and have taken the min ET down to 10.50 or so instead of the NHRA number of 12.00 flat.
 
Thx Don - you confirmed what I thought I knew. But in reality, a No Box car also uses a delay feature in the "button" itself. I have a friend with a Chevelle that has a tbrake and adjusts his mechanical button delay to dial in his reaction time. So essentially we have 2 classes that both run a button and can dial in a delay to get the reaction times very quick and consistent.

I'm just an old-school footbrake 1/4 mile racer. After all, that is what those before us created as the sport! And I'm certainly NOT in the sport to make $$....wrong sport for that. But I am in it for the thrill of competition and for me, that means timing both feet and getting the engine to launch consistently and the chassis to bite consistently and all the other things that come with launching a footbrake car. I'll be a happy camper so long as a track keeps the Sportsman class that runs the 1/4 mile without tbrakes allowed. (Of course, the track has to enforce those rules - which I've unfortunately run into several times where they did NOT!) I like it that the track near me has the Sportsman class and have taken the min ET down to 10.50 or so instead of the NHRA number of 12.00 flat.

I mentioned adjustable trans brake button in my post.
It’s still easier to cut a light with a delay box, you are reacting to something markedly easier. The first thing you see.
Between that, and the box, the variance is much more finite, than bottom bulbing.
I would go so far as to say the difference between an excellent footbraker and an excellent guy using an adjustable button( both off the bottom) is less than either compared to a box.
another way of looking at it, how many guys in a big dollar box race don’t use a box?

last Saturday night at Martin in the Division 5 final of no box( modified) the two guys in the final both were footbraker…..both from Mid Michigan in Slow cars. One dials 7 teens, the other like 7.70’s
 
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Most of the top Stock//SS guys use a two step based
on brake pressure leaving on their brake petal. That is also
allow you to incorporate an adjustable Delay (But I will not
elaborate on that).
Some years ago, a lot of guys used a button on two step but
NHRA finally caught on to that.
 
Most of the top Stock//SS guys use a two step based
on brake pressure leaving on their brake petal. That is also
allow you to incorporate an adjustable Delay (But I will not
elaborate on that).
Some years ago, a lot of guys used a button on two step but
NHRA finally caught on to that.

yep. NHRA stock forbids a trans brake. Super stock allows it
 
I used a front and rear line lock hooked to a button with two step for a few years before getting a transbrake.
 
Shoot ! box, no box. I just can't wait to get my crap ready to make a pass lol.
 
I used a front and rear line lock hooked to a button with two step for a few years before getting a transbrake.
I take it that worked well ? I'm also going to run a 2 step. I just have non power a body disc brakes with the 76 calipers and 11 inch drums on the dana
 
I take it that worked well ? I'm also going to run a 2 step. I just have non power a body disc brakes with the 76 calipers and 11 inch drums on the dana
It did work pretty good. I could only bring it up to about 2500 before overpowering the brakes. Before that I had the two step hooked to my brake light switch with a toggle to turn it on or off.
 
It did work pretty good. I could only bring it up to about 2500 before overpowering the brakes. Before that I had the two step hooked to my brake light switch with a toggle to turn it on or off.
I think I'll give that a try. Thank you
 
I take it that worked well ? I'm also going to run a 2 step. I just have non power a body disc brakes with the 76 calipers and 11 inch drums on the dana

has as much to do with the convertor as it does the quality of your brakes.
2k, 2.5k, 3k it’s unlikely your gonna see much if any difference in 60 foot/ ET from any chance of those spots, it’s still gonna hit at where the convertor latches. Bigger effect is reaction time
 
With a tbrake, delay box, and a 2-step to control the ignition, I assume the button release activates the delay which once timed out, releases the tbrake and "releases" the rpm limiter in the 2-step at the same time. I'm talking about Pro and Super Pro bracket cars, not NHRA Stock or Super Stock cars. Not true?
 
has as much to do with the convertor as it does the quality of your brakes.
2k, 2.5k, 3k it’s unlikely your gonna see much if any difference in 60 foot/ ET from any chance of those spots, it’s still gonna hit at where the convertor latches. Bigger effect is reaction time
I did it for more consistency in reactions. At the time my converter stalled about 3800. Factory KH discs with factory 10” drums in the rear.
 
has as much to do with the convertor as it does the quality of your brakes.
2k, 2.5k, 3k it’s unlikely your gonna see much if any difference in 60 foot/ ET from any chance of those spots, it’s still gonna hit at where the convertor latches. Bigger effect is reaction time
Definitely something I'll have to figure out in my driveway, I'm thinking my convertor will be around 4800
 
^^^^ now there's a driveway with some tire marks!!

fwiw...my 8" TC stalls at 5000. I vary the rpm I hold the engine at (with the footbrake and throttle pedal) to adjust reaction times. I'm typically in the 2350-2600 range and then mash the pedal on the last yellow. Higher rpm is faster (or red!!) reaction time. Now if I could have consistent feet, I could get rid of the noise in the data and find the perfect launch rpm!! I keep a graph of the data (yep, I'm an engineer!) and there's obviously a direct correlation but still too much variation. I also find I need to bump rpm to the higher side as the trans gets hotter when/if we get hot-lapped.
 
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