OK here goes. 74 Dart, strip only. Battery in trunk, two pole kill switch, elec. fuel pump, elec fan. When I first got the car two years ago, the battery kept going dead. The kill switch also wouldn't kill the engine. I have since replaced the battery, voltage regulator, and alternator. I used a bosch relay to kill one of the field wires to the alt. so the main kill switch will shut the engine off. I also have bypassed the amp gauge and bulkhead properly. The P.O. has done quite a hack job of the original wiring. The problem I'm having now is that I'm only getting 12.3 volts from the bat. lug on the back of the alt. Raising the rpm's doesn't increase the voltage at all. I'm wondering if the relay is having an affect on charging. When I put the relay in, I wasn't sure which wire to put it on. When I put it on the yellow wire it didn't kill the engine. I put it on the purple wire and the kill switch shut the engine off. There are so many splices in the original wiring, I'm thinking about yanking it all out and starting over. Any thoughts?
Charging issues?
- Thread starter 70net440
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
12.3 is not charging, pretty much "Yellow" and "purple" does not compute. Where/ what wires are you talking about?
What sort of alternator you run? Stock Mopar, Delco/ Denso, what?
You said a "2 pole" disconnect. Let's be clear, are you talking about "double pole" which would be FOUR terminals, (2 big, 2 smaller) or "single pole" which would be TWO terminals?
So we need details how you hooked up this relay, exactly.
I would do this SIMILAR to what you are doing, but a little different. I'd buy a nice "continuous duty" solenoid, and mount it up front, say, next to the start relay. This will become your supply point for heavy switched "run" loads, like fans, ignition, and the alternator field and regulator.
Hook one large terminal of the solenoid to the start relay stud, hook your loads on the other side
Hook either small terminal of the solenoid to the "ignition run" wire (dark blue) and run the other small terminal back to the rear.
You'll need a "double pole" IE FOUR terminal disconnect. Break the battery lead as per normal with the large terminals,
ground either of the two small terminals, and hook the remaining small terminal to the wire you ran to the rear. This wire can be a no14 or so.
THERE ARE several other ways to do this. But if you use a solenoid, you have a nice big heavy switch to cover your loads, AND either the ignition switch OR the disconnect is SURE to kill the engine fans and pump.
Looks like this
What sort of alternator you run? Stock Mopar, Delco/ Denso, what?
You said a "2 pole" disconnect. Let's be clear, are you talking about "double pole" which would be FOUR terminals, (2 big, 2 smaller) or "single pole" which would be TWO terminals?
So we need details how you hooked up this relay, exactly.
I would do this SIMILAR to what you are doing, but a little different. I'd buy a nice "continuous duty" solenoid, and mount it up front, say, next to the start relay. This will become your supply point for heavy switched "run" loads, like fans, ignition, and the alternator field and regulator.
Hook one large terminal of the solenoid to the start relay stud, hook your loads on the other side
Hook either small terminal of the solenoid to the "ignition run" wire (dark blue) and run the other small terminal back to the rear.
You'll need a "double pole" IE FOUR terminal disconnect. Break the battery lead as per normal with the large terminals,
ground either of the two small terminals, and hook the remaining small terminal to the wire you ran to the rear. This wire can be a no14 or so.
THERE ARE several other ways to do this. But if you use a solenoid, you have a nice big heavy switch to cover your loads, AND either the ignition switch OR the disconnect is SURE to kill the engine fans and pump.
Looks like this
OK, nevermind the yellow and purple field wires. I just realized the yellow wire is from my relay socket. This thing is making me stupid. I have a Ford solonoid up front to run the starter also the kill switch is a single pole. Does it matter witch field wire the relay is switching. I have it on the terminal closest to the bat stud. The relay is powered by a run source, I just can't remember where it comes from. I'll look tommorrow. Thanks for the help.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I don't believe it matters. The factory colors are blue --hooks in with "ignition run" and the green goes back to the regulator. The other terminal of the regulator also goes to "ignition run."
the basic diagram from MyMopar, but incorrectly called "dual field." "Isolated field" is the correct term
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg
from here
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=18
the basic diagram from MyMopar, but incorrectly called "dual field." "Isolated field" is the correct term
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg
from here
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=18
OK, did some detective work. Turns out the P.O. ran a wire with a fusable link directly from the start relay stud to power one of the fields on the alt. I took my bosch relay out of the circuit to the voltage regulator and hooked it back up directly. 14.9 volts, but of course the master disconnect didn't kill the ignition. I ordered a two pole switch from Speedway, hope it gets here by this weekend. Do you have a part number for that continous duty relay? It looks similar to the ones we have on some of our older trucks. Also where is the dark blue ignition run wire you mentioned? I have lots of splices and jumpers on this pos, couldn't spot a dark blue wire near the starter relay. Again, thanks for the help.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Any "good" parts store should carry these solenoids, just make SURE it is continuous duty. They are used in motor homes, etc for dual battery hookups. STARTER solenoids won't work--the coil will burn up in about 15 minutes.
Not knowing how your wiring is hacked, I'd just trace back the regulator "I" (ign) terminal and the blue alternator field. Both of them should go to the same place --the "Y" off to supply the ignition system. So you need to isolate those three things at least, and put them on the cold side of the relay/ solenoid. The wire should continue on through the bulkhead back to the IGN switch.
You don't absolutely HAVE to use this solenoid. You can break the alternator field, OR the ignition field with a smaller relay the way you tried to earlier. I don't think it matters which field wire you break, or you can break the "I" lead to the regulator as well. Any of these points will kill the engine when the disconnect is pulled.
14.9 is a little high. You may be suffering "voltage drop" to the "I" terminal on the regulator. On a factory - wired car, this circuit path is
from the battery -- starter relay stud -- fuse link -- through the bulkhead -- ammeter circuit -- in harness splice and to the ignition switch connector -- through the switch -- back out the switch connector --(on the dark blue IGN run) -- back out the bulkhead -- to the IGN system, alternator field and regulator
Your top suspects for v drop problems are the bulkhead connector, the IGN switch connector, and the switch itself. Any bad connection in this path supplies LOW voltage to the IGN/ regulator circuit, and the regulator compensates by ADDING that voltage to it's set point, thereby causing an overcharge condition.
If this IS the cause, it means your IGN system is getting starved. Changing to a solenoid is ONE way around this problem, IE getting the supply voltage under the hook closer to the battery.
Make sure you have good, big jumper grounds between the engine and body, and good cables on the battery.
Not knowing how your wiring is hacked, I'd just trace back the regulator "I" (ign) terminal and the blue alternator field. Both of them should go to the same place --the "Y" off to supply the ignition system. So you need to isolate those three things at least, and put them on the cold side of the relay/ solenoid. The wire should continue on through the bulkhead back to the IGN switch.
You don't absolutely HAVE to use this solenoid. You can break the alternator field, OR the ignition field with a smaller relay the way you tried to earlier. I don't think it matters which field wire you break, or you can break the "I" lead to the regulator as well. Any of these points will kill the engine when the disconnect is pulled.
14.9 is a little high. You may be suffering "voltage drop" to the "I" terminal on the regulator. On a factory - wired car, this circuit path is
from the battery -- starter relay stud -- fuse link -- through the bulkhead -- ammeter circuit -- in harness splice and to the ignition switch connector -- through the switch -- back out the switch connector --(on the dark blue IGN run) -- back out the bulkhead -- to the IGN system, alternator field and regulator
Your top suspects for v drop problems are the bulkhead connector, the IGN switch connector, and the switch itself. Any bad connection in this path supplies LOW voltage to the IGN/ regulator circuit, and the regulator compensates by ADDING that voltage to it's set point, thereby causing an overcharge condition.
If this IS the cause, it means your IGN system is getting starved. Changing to a solenoid is ONE way around this problem, IE getting the supply voltage under the hook closer to the battery.
Make sure you have good, big jumper grounds between the engine and body, and good cables on the battery.
green1
Well-Known Member
4 post disconnect; run a big wire to the trunk for the alt. Battery cable, BIG. Ground to frame, put a big, block to k-member ground in. Bypass amm, welding lead wiring, with soldered on connecters is good. Connecters at hardware store. Put in vise, clamp hard, then put wood on each side to hold it(less heat transfer) re-clamp, propane torch with RESIN solder from radio shack; plumbing solder won't work long.
Success! Installed everything 13.4 volts at idle cutoff switch works perfectly. Couldn't run the car for very long(fuel cell is out for leak repairs), but it seems to be working great. Thanks 67Dart for all the help.
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